Cops and Superheroes

Bob_McMillan

Elite Member
Aug 28, 2014
5,193
1,866
118
Country
Philippines
So I was watching the early episodes of The Flash and reading Detective Comics, and they both have something in common. They start out with the cops being pissed off with the superheroes before they eventually accept that they cant handle a lot of things without them.

In real life, if real life had super heroes, do you think that the cops would just automatically accept the hero's help? I for one think maybe they would. Though society doesn't seem to think much of cops today, I believe that policemen and women really do just want to help people. If another guy who could help out in ways they couldn't, I think they would be grateful.

Or maybe I'm just too naive?
 

Zontar

Mad Max 2019
Feb 18, 2013
4,931
0
0
No, initially any hero would be viewed as a vigilantly. We know this because there are people, in real life, who dress up in consumes and fight crime. Even if you added the super power element to it, it would take them being an active part of the force to be accepted right away.
 

Thaluikhain

Elite Member
Legacy
Jan 16, 2010
18,671
3,587
118
A superhero is just a vigilante with a fancy outfit. Every so often, you get people who've seen too many superhero movies try it for reals (to an extent), and cause problems.

OTOH, I don't see why you can't have superheroes that work with the police because they are part of an official government organisation (if not the police force itself). Then you might get jurisdiction clashes, but not likely much worse.

EDIT: Goddamnit Zontar :(
 

Bob_McMillan

Elite Member
Aug 28, 2014
5,193
1,866
118
Country
Philippines
Zontar said:
No, initially any hero would be viewed as a vigilantly. We know this because there are people, in real life, who dress up in consumes and fight crime. Even if you added the super power element to it, it would take them being an active part of the force to be accepted right away.
thaluikhain said:
A superhero is just a vigilante with a fancy outfit. Every so often, you get people who've seen too many superhero movies try it for reals (to an extent), and cause problems.

OTOH, I don't see why you can't have superheroes that work with the police because they are part of an official government organisation (if not the police force itself). Then you might get jurisdiction clashes, but not likely much worse.

EDIT: Goddamnit Zontar :(
I meant more of super powered heroes or people like Batman, not people trying to be superheroes. I think we all know how that would turn out.
 

Scarim Coral

Jumped the ship
Legacy
Oct 29, 2010
18,157
2
3
Country
UK
I think it depend more on the Government side to this. If they allow Superheroes fight for justice then I assume the officier will allow them to do so and may even assist them with some crime.

Granted in saying so I know for a fact that there will be some cops out there who don't want interference from the superheroes (Furgenson come to my mind).
 

Silvanus

Elite Member
Legacy
Jan 15, 2013
11,112
5,833
118
Country
United Kingdom
Bob_McMillan said:
I meant more of super powered heroes or people like Batman, not people trying to be superheroes. I think we all know how that would turn out.
Well, the only real difference is success rate.
 

Bob_McMillan

Elite Member
Aug 28, 2014
5,193
1,866
118
Country
Philippines
Silvanus said:
Bob_McMillan said:
I meant more of super powered heroes or people like Batman, not people trying to be superheroes. I think we all know how that would turn out.
Well, the only real difference is success rate.
Well I would trust a bulletproof guy with a cape more than I would a latex clad dude with a bat.
 

tilmoph

Gone Gonzo
Jun 11, 2013
922
0
0
I think they'd kind of have to accept the help of someone as powerful as Superman. I mean, what the hell are they going to do if they they don't like him?

Aside from that, the CIA already uses militia/revolutionary/terrorist groups to deal with politically problematic people and regimes, the US in WWII had no problem using the Mafia to help with the invasion of Sicily, various police agencies have been willing to use criminals to catch other criminals ("Fast and Furious" trainwreck, anybody). so I don't see why they'd have a problem with accepting the help of someone Superman-esque, especially if they act like Superman does (or did pre-new 52; from what I've seen, N52 Supes is more of a douchebasket). They'd probably just deputize the guy to avoid legal headaches and move on.
 

Korenith

New member
Oct 11, 2010
315
0
0
Bob_McMillan said:
Zontar said:
No, initially any hero would be viewed as a vigilantly. We know this because there are people, in real life, who dress up in consumes and fight crime. Even if you added the super power element to it, it would take them being an active part of the force to be accepted right away.
thaluikhain said:
A superhero is just a vigilante with a fancy outfit. Every so often, you get people who've seen too many superhero movies try it for reals (to an extent), and cause problems.

OTOH, I don't see why you can't have superheroes that work with the police because they are part of an official government organisation (if not the police force itself). Then you might get jurisdiction clashes, but not likely much worse.

EDIT: Goddamnit Zontar :(
I meant more of super powered heroes or people like Batman, not people trying to be superheroes. I think we all know how that would turn out.
Read Garth Ennis's "The Boys" and you'll see that superpowers don't necessarily mean any good at saving people. If anything the fallout from superpowered "heroes" trying to save the day might be a whole lot worse than some nut with a mask and a golf club.

If they were as skilled as they are in comics though... I think they'd get a pretty extreme divide in opinion until there was some government decision on them. The practicalities aren't often addressed in comics though so arrest laws and evidence etc etc. might become a bit of a sticky situation.
 

HardkorSB

New member
Mar 18, 2010
1,477
0
0
That depends.
For example, given the things that US copssometimes do to the citizens, a superhero with a strong moral code would very likely punish the cops who abuse their power.
The worst criminals are arguably some politicians, businessmen and bankers so many people, if they would have super powers, would go after them as well (that's what I would do if I had super powers).
If that was the case, the cops would definitely not be in favor of it.
 

Zontar

Mad Max 2019
Feb 18, 2013
4,931
0
0
HardkorSB said:
That depends.
For example, given the things that US copssometimes do to the citizens, a superhero with a strong moral code would very likely punish the cops who abuse their power.
The worst criminals are arguably some politicians, businessmen and bankers so many people, if they would have super powers, would go after them as well (that's what I would do if I had super powers).
If that was the case, the cops would definitely not be in favor of it.
Not going to lie, that sound like a villains origin story of him trying to be a hero and eventually going to the dark side (it's pretty much impossible to justify the use of powers to stop non-violent crime).

A hero trying to work outside the confines of the law doesn't last very long as a hero, though that type of villainry does justify having government employed supers staying at home instead of working with the military as they logically would.
 

Fox12

AccursedT- see you space cowboy
Jun 6, 2013
4,828
0
0
Here's the thing, no comic ever deals with the real issues of superheroes. The Dark Knight Returns touched on some important issues with superheroes, but it immediately shoved those issues under the rug, as if they didn't exist.

Who gives Batman the right to do what he does? Sure, he pulls some kids from a burning building, no one raises a fuss over that. But cops get their authority from the government, and the government is (hopefully) controlled by the will of the people. There are problems here, of course, but it's better then a vigilante making his own laws. A cop has to read you your right when you're arrested. Batman doesn't have the authority to arrest people, and anyone he arrested in real life would probably get off. Do you want some vigilante spying on you? Gathering evidence? Arresting you? I sure as hell wouldn't want batman watching me with some cellphone gadget, like in the movie. It's a violation of civil liberties, batman doesn't get to make these decisions. They would have to fall in line with the authorities, or get put out of commission (which isn't a bad thing). We have laws for a reason.

Honestly, Watchmen did the best job of capturing this issue. Who watches the watchmen? And why do these individuals deserve our trust?
 

Zontar

Mad Max 2019
Feb 18, 2013
4,931
0
0
Fox12 said:
Here's the thing, no comic ever deals with the real issues of superheroes. The Dark Knight Returns touched on some important issues with superheroes, but it immediately shoved those issues under the rug, as if they didn't exist.
I really wish they had dug deeper into it in that one. Superman has shown repeatedly that when the president asks him to do something, if it's to help people, then he'd do it. I'm suprised there haven't been more stories where he's a straight up employ of the government working for the greater good who does everything in his power to help people, while also remaining neutral and non-partisan politically.

But sometimes there are some things you shouldn't look into too deeply or else you end up with The Ultimates not written by Millar.

 

the December King

Member
Legacy
Mar 3, 2010
1,580
1
3
Fox12 said:
Here's the thing, no comic ever deals with the real issues of superheroes. The Dark Knight Returns touched on some important issues with superheroes, but it immediately shoved those issues under the rug, as if they didn't exist.

Who gives Batman the right to do what he does? Sure, he pulls some kids from a burning building, no one raises a fuss over that. But cops get their authority from the government, and the government is (hopefully) controlled by the will of the people. There are problems here, of course, but it's better then a vigilante making his own laws. A cop has to read you your right when you're arrested. Batman doesn't have the authority to arrest people, and anyone he arrested in real life would probably get off. Do you want some vigilante spying on you? Gathering evidence? Arresting you? I sure as hell wouldn't want batman watching me with some cellphone gadget, like in the movie. It's a violation of civil liberties, batman doesn't get to make these decisions. They would have to fall in line with the authorities, or get put out of commission (which isn't a bad thing). We have laws for a reason.

Honestly, Watchmen did the best job of capturing this issue. Who watches the watchmen? And why do these individuals deserve our trust?
Oh fun!

Little disclaimer here, I'm no expert in comics or anything, so this should be terribly amusing to those who read them. It's like a baby learning to walk. Or commenting on batman comics when he hasn't read any.

While I do agree with your stance on the face of it, Fox12, there is one small problem when presented in the context of the larger DC universe, and that is that there are, independent of Batman's existence, superhuman psychopaths, escaped metahuman monsters, rampant chemical weapons wielded by insane scientists, and deviants possessing almost unlimited capital and dangerous knowledge- in short, beings that exist outside of society (or society in general) that can flaunt the law, and can elude not only normal law enforcement, but even the most extreme countermeasures. If someone like Batman is the only one who has the skill, devices and knowledge to tackle these threats, then I would think that the People should, at least at first, recognize his good deeds, and then later perhaps approach him privately concerning some sort of special contract/employment with the city, and draft up some general guidelines with his cooperation. Naive, perhaps, but not necessarily unreasonable. Incarcerating Batman, assuming it was at all feasible, on minor crimes (at least minor when compared to the crimes thwarted), only to later have to come to him for assistance in one of the Joker's capers, would breed only the most disastrous mistrust and contempt, I would think.

Now granted, Batman could easily (at least on the face of it) be replaced/represented as a government-ordained, under-cover super-soldier given unlimited funding.

But then he'd be Captain America- I just saw that, sorry. I type stream-of-conscious style a lot of the time.
 

Nosforontu

New member
Jan 7, 2010
13
0
0
In the real world if someone with super powers wanted to fight crime they would probably just be better advised to simply join a law enforcement agency and get the proper training to do the job safely and correctly. If they want to help out people in emergencies then simply join some sort of search and rescue group and again do the job safely and correctly. In just about every case their city would probably be a bit better off if they did that in the real world (with a few real world obvious exceptions). Powers in and of themselves do not give you the training to handle the various situations a real world super hero would find himself in nor would it likely solve the underlying issues that created the criminal act in the first place.
 

Fox12

AccursedT- see you space cowboy
Jun 6, 2013
4,828
0
0
Zontar said:
the December King said:
snipity snip
These are fair points. I don't really have problems with heroes in-universe, I love batman as much anybody. I just like to point out the logistical problems created when people try to bring such heroes into the real world. If a superman existed, could he be trusted? And even if he was naive and good at heart, what does he do if the government gives him an immoral order? Would it be okay to spy on someone without a warrant? What if he was to be used as a superweapon? What if he refuses and people/soldiers die? Can the government he works with be trusted? As for batman, would he end up more like captain america, or more like the comedian? There are just too many variables, and too many superheroes.

Also, bare in mind the psychological trauma involved with crime fighting. Could batman control himself if faced with a child rapist? I used to wonder that, and then I read Watchmen, and it pretty much answered my question. I don't know, I'm not really a comics expert. I enjoy such stories, and I don't mind these issues when I watch films or read books, but when people ask what it would be like if superheroes were real, then I typically come to conclusion that things would actually suck.

Because I'm a curmudgeon who feeds of the tears of children >:O
 

GrumbleGrump

New member
Oct 14, 2014
387
0
0
Well, that depends. If a superhero is fighting regular crims, like drug dealers and pimps, then he's kinda overkill isn't it? I really can't see Superman or Flash fighting regular guys doing regular-villiany. The only way that would work without major fuckups would be if they took active part with the police department (essentially making him/her Supercop). Even a Batman style superhero would fuck shit up, as Watchmen showed us.

Supervilliany though, changes things. Because when a dude that can shrug off Bofors cannons, a guy that can control minds, a interstellar parasite or some kind of extremely dangerous threat will need someone that's at least of comparable skills or power. After all, why send tanks when you have a dude harder than steel, smarter than supercomputers or with amazing magic powers?
 

Thaluikhain

Elite Member
Legacy
Jan 16, 2010
18,671
3,587
118
Zontar said:
Not going to lie, that sound like a villains origin story of him trying to be a hero and eventually going to the dark side (it's pretty much impossible to justify the use of powers to stop non-violent crime).

A hero trying to work outside the confines of the law doesn't last very long as a hero, though that type of villainry does justify having government employed supers staying at home instead of working with the military as they logically would.
Eh, not if that person wins. The US started out that way (minus capes)