Corruption in games journalism (READ OP BEFORE POSTING!)

Erttheking

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You know what just blew my mind? Gamergate is supposed to be all about corruption in journalism...a topic that we have yet to have to actually discuss. So...why not? Let's do it

(And I don't mean the gamers are dead articles. Those have been done to death. Gamergate is supposed to be about more than that isn't it? So please don't mention them. It'll just end up derailing the conversation and we already have the mega thread for that)

I would like to start off with an example, but sadly I don't have anything...well one, but it's a really old one. The Kane and Lynch controversy where a man got fired for giving a game he didn't like a 6/10. To me that sounds like corruption in journalism. You admit that you don't like a game, you lose your job.

Any examples? Recent or older?

(And stay civil for Christ's sake. The point of this thread is not to talk about the legitimacy of Gamergate. It's about corruption in games journalism. That's. All.)
 

shrekfan246

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Part of the reason it's so muddy a topic to discuss is because many of the examples are tenuous at best, and very few of them involve actual journalism. Jeff Gerstmann is probably the only one in the past decade.

I'm fairly well convinced that the only proper way to approach the topic is by scrutinizing publishers and their advertising companies, rather than the journalists themselves. Obviously, the journalists need to be held accountable to some degree as well (Geoff Keighley, anyone?) but by and large most of the problems are caused by publishers throwing their weight around. And the funny part is that it's still true that a lot of publishers tend to not care what the review scores are for their games (nobody threw conniptions about Watch Dogs that I heard of, for example) because they're so hyped that it doesn't even matter what the scores are. So... where are you left to turn?

Well, how about "new media"? By which I mean, Youtube. The argument has been made that Youtubers aren't really in the same ballpark as "journalists" and thus shouldn't be held to the same standards, but I'd really have to dispute that. Youtube LPers are doing very similar jobs to classic games journalists, just because the majority of them aren't playing and scripting their pieces ahead of time doesn't change the fact that they're openly advertising and critiquing games. And currently they're not held to the same standards. So they get free games and they get advertising contracts and they get brought out to events for promotional purposes and it wasn't even until recently that they were suddenly told they needed to actually disclose these things and people laud them as being more reliable and trustworthy than journalists.

Also, a lot of Youtube contracts are highly exploitative. How about that Microsoft one where they were trying to get Youtubers to make videos of Xbox One games and they weren't allowed to say anything negative about the Xbox One? Or the Shadow of Mordor one, where they weren't allowed to talk about or show any bugs? And I'm sure there are far more ("don't show bugs" is something that has apparently come up in multiple contract agreements over the years), those are just the ones that came up off the top of my head.

Not to derail my own post or the thread at large, but I trust reviewers and critics to not let their personal relationships get in the way of their opinions. Much as I'd be willing to give the benefit of the doubt to my best friend, if he writes something and wants me to read it, I'm not going to avoid pointing out any issues with it. And I would hope that I would get constructive criticism on my own terrible work back. Being friends with someone doesn't automatically mean that you never say anything bad to them ever again.

EDIT: Now, to clarify, press events and the like which are sponsored by publishers are another area where journalists need to be held accountable. A lot of the time, publisher swag really isn't anything worthwhile enough that it would color a reviewer's position, but those press events can create very real conflicts of interest. Problem is, we the normal people really don't get a lot of actual hard information about them, so it's not exactly easy to try taking it as a target.
 

Irick

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Honestly? I'd like to use a word that isn't so loaded... but here is one of the basic things.

In games journalism, practices that just don't fly in journalism proper do. It is a small community, really limited to about five cities from what I understand. Everyone knows everyone else. For a journalist, this can be a good and a bad thing. There is a level of professional networking that is required, and a level of civility that is required, but... it's simply not ethical to be friends with your sources.

Because a friendship is a fundamentally different kind of relationship. Friends will try to ensure each other's best interests over say, some random stranger they've never met... and that raises a fundamental conflict of interest. Journalists have to skirt that line, and they have to be able to recognize when that line has passed. When you become friends with someone, you've got to get off the beat. It's just too grey at that point, you need to let another journalist step in.

Now... this isn't to say that you can't say anything about your friends or their experiences or games. Some of the most powerful journalist is from these sort of personal and moving stories, but the reader understands the context in these personal tales. They are stories that journalists are telling us about them and their friends.

I keep hearing people throwing this word "objective" around and... the fact of the mater is there just isn't objectivity. Humans can't do objectivity, but journalists can strive for it. That means minimizing the influences that they have and disclosing what they determine might still bias them in a non-trivial way.

You have brought up a very legitimate kind of collusion as well. Advertisers have been long suspected of basically being able to 'buy' reviews from Incredibly Generous Newsmakers by paying for ads on their sites and using that leverage to influence and pressure journalists through the companies they work for. This is troubling as well, and I believe it is systemic.

It manifests even more so, as shreckfan mentioned, when we look at youtubers and the resent terms for Shadows of Mordor. I can't trust these sort of reviews anymore... I have to look for the disclosures every time. That kind of sickens me. It's legal, but I question the ethics.

Another point I like to discuss is the use of the numerical rating system in modern game reviews, which I feel decontextualizes critique. I mentioned before that there really isn't such thing as objectivity, and that's doubly so in editorial work. While you have an objective mindset when reviewing, the experience is still going to be very personal. As such, you need to contextualize it. You need to tell us how you enjoyed the mechanics, how you felt about the characters, if there were bugs that detracted from your experience, how it felt to play. All of these things paint an immage of what it is like to play the game for us.

But then reducing that image to 7.5 out of 10... what does it mean? Where the mechanics week but the story solid? Did the story suffer but the mechanics tow the line? Did a particular character not feel fleshed out? These are important aspects of the situation which we get no hint of from a simple abstraction...

And then that abstraction is taken, put into metacritic, mixed in with more abstraction with a secret formula and then out pops an entirely abstract and devoid of context number... which can then determine raises.

I think that that contributes to the corruption largely too, and it just seems wrong to me. I don't feel like anyone is being judged on their merit in that situation rather than just being judged, arbitrarily... with no context.
 

Calbeck

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>wants to talk about ethics in reporting
>demands elimination of most recent major lapse in reporting ethics out of boredom
>wants to talk about even older scandals

Okay, let's talk. What, about the Kane and Lynch Scandal, has not yet been resolved? Just to get the basics out there which need addressing.
 

crypticracer

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Calbeck said:
>wants to talk about ethics in reporting
>demands elimination of most recent major lapse in reporting ethics out of boredom
Um. No. "Attacking" some of your readers is not a breach in Ethics. Bending the truth to pander to your readers would be an actual breach in ethics.

Sorry OP, but I feel we should talk about the Gamers are Dead articles. I feel a lot of GG doesn't have any idea what ethics in journalism would actually mean. But I am willing to bring that to another thread if you really don't want it in this one. I'll try to find a more recent example of corruption in games.
 

Calbeck

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crypticracer said:
Calbeck said:
>wants to talk about ethics in reporting
>demands elimination of most recent major lapse in reporting ethics out of boredom
Um. No. "Attacking" some of your readers is not a breach in Ethics.
Okay, first of all, I made no such claim as to what was unethical. Throwing in your own strawman doesn't change that.

Secondly, I WOULD like to talk about the Kane & Lynch controversy in terms of things that didn't get addressed in its aftermath. Can we have that conversation, as OP requested, rather than violate his preference NOT to drag GG in here like you're doing?
 

Erttheking

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crypticracer said:
Sorry OP, but I feel we should talk about the Gamers are Dead articles. I feel a lot of GG doesn't have any idea what ethics in journalism would actually mean. But I am willing to bring that to another thread if you really don't want it in this one. I'll try to find a more recent example of corruption in games.
I feel like if we talk about those articles everything else is going to go flying out the window. It's going to become center stage, everything else is going to be ignored, people are going to be arguing about gamers being under attack and then people are going to counter-argue and then things are going to devolve into the standard shlock about the legitimacy of gamergate instead of actually talking about journalism.

I can appreciate that you think that they should be talked about, but they've already been talked about to death. The point of this thread was to get away from the tangled nonsense that's been hampering discussion. A new perspective. I'm sorry if you disagree with me.
 

DataSnake

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Calbeck said:
>wants to talk about ethics in reporting
>demands elimination of most recent major lapse in reporting ethics out of boredom
By what possible definition does writing opinion pieces you don't like qualify as a "lapse in reporting ethics"?
 

Calbeck

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DataSnake said:
Calbeck said:
>wants to talk about ethics in reporting
>demands elimination of most recent major lapse in reporting ethics out of boredom
By what possible definition does writing opinion pieces you don't like qualify as a "lapse in reporting ethics"?
So...you also want to ignore what the OP was asking for, and also want to throw in a straw man?

Okay. Well, Ert, hope these guys don't totally derail your thread. Good luck, I'll wait to see if anyone actually comments on what you were asking about.
 
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DataSnake said:
Calbeck said:
>wants to talk about ethics in reporting
>demands elimination of most recent major lapse in reporting ethics out of boredom
By what possible definition does writing opinion pieces you don't like qualify as a "lapse in reporting ethics"?
It doesn't. It means that they gave their opinion on a topic and if someone disagrees with it and thought it was wrong. Tough shit.
They have a right to their opinions, the same as you or me.
If their opinion offends you so much then:
1) As a reader/listener/watcher you can try to voice your opinion in polite and constructive way.

2) Ignore them and move on with your life.

3) Stop reading/listening/watching them and tell other people to stop reading/listening/watching them.
 

crypticracer

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Ugh, my bad. Ok not talk about those articles from me. Sorry. (Is there a good discussion somewhere about this someone could link me to?)

Now then. Why do people think IGN isn't covering any of this? I understand the many reasons they would not WANT to. But considering it's the biggest games story in a while (in that the NY Times and Huffpost etc. have covered it) it seems poor on their part to claim to cover video game news and to just pretend it doesn't exist.
 

Erttheking

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crypticracer said:
Ugh, my bad. Ok not talk about those articles from me. Sorry. (Is there a good discussion somewhere about this someone could link me to?)

Now then. Why do people think IGN isn't covering any of this? I understand the many reasons they would not WANT to. But considering it's the biggest games story in a while (in that the NY Times and Huffpost etc. have covered it) it seems poor on their part to claim to cover video game news and to just pretend it doesn't exist.
To be honest I don't really hold IGN in that high of a regard. I wouldn't go so far as to call them corrupt, but really bad or uncaring about their jobs? Yeah, I'd say that describes them well.
 

DC_78

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Why not start with one of these from shady to out right WHUT?!

The Shadow of Mordor PR company's egregious contracts on Youtube.

Patricia Hernandez writing about developer's games who were also her roommates.

Gamespot's recent special event hyping the latest WoW expansion Warlords of whatever with Chris Watters, a journalist, on stage as presenter.
http://warcraft.blizzplanet.com/blog/comments/los-angeles-warlords-of-draenor-cinematic-premiere-livestream
(Thank you Mars Atlus)

The Game Journos Pros mailing list. Say what you will about it being a boring industry mailing list. The fact that these are competing websites talking in secret is shady. It has kept game journalists let go from one site from getting new jobs in the industry afterwards do to EiC talking in it is collusion. http://blogjob.com/oneangrygamer/2014/10/gamergate-destructoid-corruption-and-ruined-careers/

Articles coming out since Gamergate by anonymous developers confirming pay to play for good press. http://www.nichegamer.net/2014/10/gamergate-interview-reviewing-the-reviewers-double-time-edition/

Heck there was a recent Kotaku article hyping a kickstarter for a pigeon boyfriend rip off game that had bears in it. The developer had connections to the same clique that started all this mess. So do we, the audience, now have to check for possible Conflicts of Interest ourselves? Can we trust the reporters to disclose?
 

xaszatm

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Calbeck said:
>wants to talk about ethics in reporting
>demands elimination of most recent major lapse in reporting ethics out of boredom
>wants to talk about even older scandals

Okay, let's talk. What, about the Kane and Lynch Scandal, has not yet been resolved? Just to get the basics out there which need addressing.
Look, we already have COUNTLESSS threads plus a mega thread about that topic. Why do we need to make every topic about Games Journalism about those "Gamers are Dead" articles?

OT: I'd like to talk about the Shadow of Mordor thing talked about by Jim Stirling and exposed by TotalBiscuit last week. It is becoming clearer that Youtube is no longer the WIld West it once was and transparancy is needed in there more than ever.
 

IceForce

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I'll tell you what annoy me, advertisements disguised as articles. I view that to be unethical and a bit corrupt.

If an article is a sponsored or paid article, I want to know before I start reading it.
 

Agkistro

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I know Bethesda is extremely popular and I'm not going to win friends by saying this, but their games getting universal acclaim and 'game of the year awards' despite consistently being buggy pieces of crap that their playerbase has to code patches for in order to work properly has always seemed to me like somebody is on the take. I'm not saying the games deserve BAD scores, but it seems like the reviewers don't even bother taking points off.
 

Erttheking

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Agkistro said:
I know Bethesda is extremely popular and I'm not going to win friends by saying this, but their games getting universal acclaim and 'game of the year awards' despite consistently being buggy pieces of crap that their playerbase has to code patches for in order to work properly has always seemed to me like somebody is on the take. I'm not saying the games deserve BAD scores, but it seems like the reviewers don't even bother taking points off.
Well fans are trying to embargo Polygon for giving the game a horrible horrible score of 7.5. Makes me wonder how many of the people who reviewed it actually thought it was that good and how many are trying to avoid the wrath of fans.
 

Thorn14

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IceForce said:
I'll tell you what annoy me, advertisements disguised as articles. I view that to be unethical and a bit corrupt.

If an article is a sponsored or paid article, I want to know before I start reading it.
Here here. A big problem is games journalism is almost a gigantic PR campaign at this point.

Escapist has been doing a great job of disclosing their information at least lately.

Now check out this article from back in the stone ages of video game magazines.



Note the lower right.

And how fucking true it is.
 

DC_78

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IceForce said:
I'll tell you what annoy me, advertisements disguised as articles. I view that to be unethical and a bit corrupt.

If an article is a sponsored or paid article, I want to know before I start reading it.
*cough* Destiny Hype *cough*

Coming up on the Holiday shopping season we will be seeing a lot of these, unfortunately. I totally agree. If you are being paid to host a glorified press release than disclose it.