could the nazis won the European Theatre if they delayed/canceled the invasion of the soviet union

[Aerowaves]

Hitler's whole ideology was based around fucking up Russian Communism - the supposed centre of international Jewry - and gaining living space for the burgeoning German population, served by Slavic slave races, so an invasion was inevitable. If he'd delayed it and concentrated on the African campaign, thereby divesting the British of much of their strategic resources, then he could have had more short term success.

Do not have any illusions that Stalin and his cohorts saw the Pact as anything but a respite in which they could build up their army (and a vehicle for gaining some cheap Polish territory) and it's preposterous to assume that they would have stood aside while an irreversibly oppositional ideology closed ranks, strengthened holdings in Europe and made alliances with Eastern European countries, all with the clear aim of fucking them up. Once the Soviet economy got fully mobilised for war, there was nothing that could stop it.

Fun fact: the Allied forces in Europe after D-Day only faced around 20% of the German armed forces. The rest was trying to put a stop to the communist juggernaut.

Conclusion: no.

 

[Raddra]

By the ending years of the war Germany was down to giving rifles to their male children and sending them to the frontlines.

They were bust. They were out of men. Their resources were dwindling.

WW2 was as much a battle of economies, resources and intelligence as it was of men and tanks. While Germany had a strong headstart, over time they were stretched thin and their economy was suffering. While keeping a non aggression pact with the USSR might have prolonged things, they did not have the manpower to keep things going for too long and they were having to deal with the consequences of overtaking countries and the angered populace. The French resistance is a prime example of this.

 

[OliverTwist72]

To be fair, the US was already involved long before Pearl Harbor.

The attacks on Pearl Harbor are claimed by many historians to be retalitory attacks for US oil embargos against Japan.

How well can any nation fight a war cut off from oil? An island nation no less? It was already game over for Japan. They just fought one hell of a losing battle.

Well, yes they were involved. I meant militarily. They were also involved in the European Theater via the Lend-Lease Act and Destroyers for Bases Agreement. I think the US would have sat out for far longer if they were not attacked.

You statement kind of reminds me of something. I'm not sure if it is historically accurate, but Isoroku Yamamoto's quote from Tora! Tora! Tora! "I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve," shows that even their greatest admiral did not believe they could win a protracted war with the US. (I think it was found in a page of one of his journals and not words he actually spoke).

Yamamoto also believed that the only way to win a war against the US was to invade the US all the way to Washington, which he believed to be impossible against an opponent with such a strong industrial and population advantage. So yes, it pretty much was game over for Japan already.

 

[exessmirror]

russian steamroll
even if the germans won, they would be taken over by russia, cuz stalin wanted europe red rather dan yellow (color of fascism if i remember correctly). the only way the war could have ended in germany's favor is if Valkyrie succeeded and they peaced with the allies. also the allies rather saw europe yellow then red so when the russians came the would blow their steamroll to tiny little bits very fast. becouse the allies would then help germany against the russians

 

[YesIPlayTheBagpipes]

no. the soviet union was part of the allies forces. any war in europe would have led to Russia joining in. really it was when Hitler declared war on america that the Nazi were doomed to failure.

 

[mocruz1200]

Possibly, but I think they may have won the war if Valkyrie was sucessful. After all, many of the defeats Germany suffered late into the war were because of Hitler killing his best generals and making insane battlefield strategies.

apparently you don't play RTS's, because insane battlefield strategies ALWAYS work =P

 

[Soviet Steve]

I believe that the reason the Nazis lost was the two front war.
Who writes the captcha

If the Nazis had postponed the invasion of the USSR it would have given the Soviets valuable time in which to recover and reequip themselves after the purges. The armoured, motorized and mechanized corps could be completed, and Stalin would be less likely to rule out the possibility of an invasion as Hitler now would have just one place left to concentrate his military.

If the Germans had steamrolled Britain early on and then fought down the remainder of the French then perhaps things would have turned out differently - Though unless Hitler avoided declaring war on the Americans I'm sure the front would just have played out like Operation Torch did IRL and the allies and comitern would have rolled up from the south and east anyway.

The Nazis didn't lose due to the two front war issue however. They lost due to a disastrously inaccurate estimation of the capabilities of the government in the USSR. Had it just been a rotten structure that was about to come down on its own then the facists would have stood a good chance at winning, however the Soviet government proved itself capable to relocate large parts of its industry and to conjure up hundreds of thousands of soldiers seemingly out of no-where, and they were also able to field equipment of reasonable quality in quantities which were completely out of Germany's league.

Quantity is a quality of its own.


As for the other question:
I believe the captcha is done by a company hired by the escapist.

 

[The Rockerfly]

le snip

This is completely off topic but the combination of you saying 'Negative' and the stig avatar makes me imagine you speaking like a robot

 

[Ushiromiya Battler]

Unternehmnen Barbarossa. Attacking the Soviet Union was a bold move, but also a futile one. Of course the OKW didn't have the data we have today, but with the benefit of hindsight it appears fairly obvious that the German undertaking was doomed from the start. This was actually partially realised by segments of the Nazi leadership, who viewed the invasion essentially as a gamble (albeit with appearantly better odds than what turned out to be the case).

If I remember right from this history article I read a few days ago, Germany would have won the war in Russia if they had gone with the plan and let the middle spear take Moskva instead off joining the upper spear currently meeting heavy resistance around the finnish border.

Correct me if I'm wrong

 

[RA92]

Possibly, if that idiot Hitler wasn't so obsessed with breaking the British civilians' morale by bombing them with V-2s (and doing zero military damage in the process) and spent more resources on the Me262.

And if Italy and Japan weren't such blundering idiots as well.

 

[Ushiromiya Battler]

I think the main problem for Germany is that they were not prepared to deal with the Russian winter. They were just ill equipped to deal with that crucial factor.

From what the article says, the war would have ended before the Russian winter arrived as the Russian command was stationed it Moskva at the time.

I could still be wrong as I can't remember hundred percent if that was the situation, and, well the winter could have sparked a russian counterattack even after they lost...

I'll go find that article again.

 

[Zykon TheLich]

No, personal