Couple get armed police visit for googling "pressure cookers"

[Olas]

At first, I felt bad for the Americans that have to live in conditions looking more and more like communism. But then I remembered the citizens are exactly the ones paying the taxes and voting so having them pay for their own hubris makes a twisted kind of sense.

Communismm US?

Dude, read a bit about Communism before posting.

Anyway, one more to the pile of 'Why the US is a police state'

I completely agree it does not have much in common with communism (Not that much of what people connect with communism was described in Marxx manifest)
Actually the current state is coming a lot closer to the Fascistic rule of Nazi Germany and the Gestapo than the USSR and the KGB.

And before someone takes offence by that comparison, according to a quick refresher on Wikipedia there are more or less 5 parts of recognising a facist.
1) You have to be nationalistic, the Americans call it Patriotism, but it's the same difference
2) You have to be authoritarian, in short you have to blindly obey the goverment (Not trust or believe but obey) and considering the amount of people who applaud (Or don't say anything openly about) the measures the government takes, it could be seen as obeying.
3) The state have to hold total authority over the society and seek to control all aspects of public and private life whenever necessary (which is basicly what everybody is complaining about on the internet)
4) You have to be more or less hostile to liberal democracy, socialism, and communism
And lastly
5) take the above to an extreme (Like most pure -isms)

I think you're trying to see something that isn't there.

1. Not all Americans are patriots, in fact the majority of us positively hate our government right now. Many of us may love the concept of America as a romantic ideal, but even that's been fading for a long time. Most of my friends have said that they'd wish they were born elsewhere, and I don't know of anyone who actually likes the state of our country or government right now.
2. It's a huge stretch to jump from 'okay with certain government actions in the name of security' to 'blind obedience', not that everyone is even the former. People in the US still have and exercise their right to protest all the time, so I'd say it's pretty misguided to call us authoritarian.
3. No, just no. Outside of preventing violence/destruction/theft/etc our government does not get involved in in private our public life. Mostly because people lose their shit whenever it appears like it's trying to. And even then most of our police enforcement is done on the state level not federal level so there's very little centralization.
4. We have definitely been hostile towards communism (see Vietnam), but never democracy. In fact our most recent wars were started in the guise of spreading democracy, try to figure that out.

 

[Olas]

I get a feeling this probably wouldn't have happened had it not been for the Boston bombing in April. Anyway, clearly an unfortunate example of unchecked overreaction from multiple parties.

Really?
Maybe it's time they stop with faking they're a free country and a democracy and just admit they're a dictatorship police state.

You didn't read the article, nor do you appear to have any idea what a 'dictatorship' is. Please stop turning the escapist forums into a place of ignorance and contempt.

Actually, I did read the article and I do realize dictatorship may be the wrong term for it.
It's just the one that happened to be the closest one I could think of after just seeing The Dictator just before I read about this.

Seriously though, what do you call a country where you can't even google cooking wares and backpacks without being suspected of planning terrorism and getting armed police at your door?

A paranoiarchy maybe?

I don't know, after taking a brief course on nuclear physics I started googling and looking up how to make a hydrogen bomb just because I was curious about how it worked. In fact, now that I think of it I've googled all kinds of stuff that according to peoples' reactions to this article should have gotten me arrested, not all of it at home either.

That's why I think this was just one extreme case rather than the actual norm. You also have to consider the fact that we had a serious bombing in this country less than 6 months ago which is one reason why some people might be on edge.

 

[spartan231490]

Ugh...so since the PRISM scandal is already out, they just flat out stopped playing it careful and went on an all-out assault with the information they got? -.-

It's funny, in what...1960~1970? There was a small 'movement' of people that firmly believed that the government was spying on everyone and everything was a conspiracy. Well, it seems like they at least had the first part right, but for 40 years into the future. >_<

Yeah, I'm starting to think conspiracy theorists weren't that off the mark, really.
It's sort of crazy that they're not even hiding it anymore. The article states they visit about 100 people a day, that's bloody insane. That's 36,500 people a year because they wanted to cook a ham or fertilize their vegetable garden.

Well America, let me know how your own personal KGB plays out. I'm actually going to try to get the hell away from here.

I feel like bad things are going to happen very soon in the North American political climate.

I very very much doubt that it will be limited to North America, I'm sad to say.

 

[spartan231490]

I get a feeling this probably wouldn't have happened had it not been for the Boston bombing in April. Anyway, clearly an unfortunate example of unchecked overreaction from multiple parties.

Really?
Maybe it's time they stop with faking they're a free country and a democracy and just admit they're a dictatorship police state.

You didn't read the article, nor do you appear to have any idea what a 'dictatorship' is. Please stop turning the escapist forums into a place of ignorance and contempt.

Actually, I did read the article and I do realize dictatorship may be the wrong term for it.
It's just the one that happened to be the closest one I could think of after just seeing The Dictator just before I read about this.

Seriously though, what do you call a country where you can't even google cooking wares and backpacks without being suspected of planning terrorism and getting armed police at your door?

A paranoiarchy maybe?

The article says they're doing this 100 times a day. How is that anything but the norm?

I don't know, after taking a brief course on nuclear physics I started googling and looking up how to make a hydrogen bomb just because I was curious about how it worked. In fact, now that I think of it I've googled all kinds of stuff that according to peoples' reactions to this article should have gotten me arrested, not all of it at home either.

That's why I think this was just one extreme case rather than the actual norm. You also have to consider the fact that we had a serious bombing in this country less than 6 months ago which is one reason why some people might be on edge.

The article says they're doing this 100 times a day. How is that anything but the norm? So ask yourself, what's the difference between yourself and this person? Well, I heard that the wife is a blogger, seems pretty likely that this was an attempt to intimidate them into being more government friendly on their blog.

As for what to call it, how about a corrupted republic. Or, if you want to believe the conspiracy theorists, it's an aristocracy with a puppet republic.

 

[TakerFoxx]

So someone explain to me why people in this thread are cool with militarized cops being allowed to enter your home just because of something you've googled at work?

That'd be great.

They didn't show up just because the guy and his wife googled something, they were just following up on a tip the couple's boss left. And once it became clear that it was a false alarm, everyone went home. End of story.

Yes. I know. But why is OK that militarized police can go into one's home only based on a tip from your boss about internet search habits???

Because they didn't know if it was a false alarm or not, and were playing it safe on the off-chance that they were dealing with actual terrorists. Remember how desperate the Boston Bombers got and how many people they put in danger? The extra personnel and equipment were there in case they were needed, and fortunately in this case they were not. And once that became clear, they left. Better to have them and not need them than need them and not have them.

 

[Olas]

I get a feeling this probably wouldn't have happened had it not been for the Boston bombing in April. Anyway, clearly an unfortunate example of unchecked overreaction from multiple parties.

Really?
Maybe it's time they stop with faking they're a free country and a democracy and just admit they're a dictatorship police state.

You didn't read the article, nor do you appear to have any idea what a 'dictatorship' is. Please stop turning the escapist forums into a place of ignorance and contempt.

Actually, I did read the article and I do realize dictatorship may be the wrong term for it.
It's just the one that happened to be the closest one I could think of after just seeing The Dictator just before I read about this.

Seriously though, what do you call a country where you can't even google cooking wares and backpacks without being suspected of planning terrorism and getting armed police at your door?

A paranoiarchy maybe?

The article says they're doing this 100 times a day. How is that anything but the norm?

I don't know, after taking a brief course on nuclear physics I started googling and looking up how to make a hydrogen bomb just because I was curious about how it worked. In fact, now that I think of it I've googled all kinds of stuff that according to peoples' reactions to this article should have gotten me arrested, not all of it at home either.

That's why I think this was just one extreme case rather than the actual norm. You also have to consider the fact that we had a serious bombing in this country less than 6 months ago which is one reason why some people might be on edge.

The article says they're doing this 100 times a day. How is that anything but the norm? So ask yourself, what's the difference between yourself and this person? Well, I heard that the wife is a blogger, seems pretty likely that this was an attempt to intimidate them into being more government friendly on their blog.

As for what to call it, how about a corrupted republic. Or, if you want to believe the conspiracy theorists, it's an aristocracy with a puppet republic.

It says about a hundred times a week, which probably seems like a lot until you spread it out across hundreds of millions of people, some of which for all you know may have actually done things worthy of raising serious suspicion. You can't look at this one case that made the news and assume every instance is just as stupid and pointless as this one.

Honestly, you're the one who sounds paranoid if you actually think they did this to intimidate a blogger into being more 'government friendly'. If anything she'll probably be more critical of the government than ever from now on. As if anyone in the government really gives a shit about what anyone says or thinks about them on a personal blog.

I'd say we're both a corrupt republic, as well as an aristocracy with a puppet republic, but I don't see how the fact that our congressman take orders from lobbyists has any connection to this.

 

[Moth_Monk]

So someone explain to me why people in this thread are cool with militarized cops being allowed to enter your home just because of something you've googled at work?

That'd be great.

They didn't show up just because the guy and his wife googled something, they were just following up on a tip the couple's boss left. And once it became clear that it was a false alarm, everyone went home. End of story.

Yes. I know. But why is OK that militarized police can go into one's home only based on a tip from your boss about internet search habits???

Because they didn't know if it was a false alarm or not, and were playing it safe on the off-chance that they were dealing with actual terrorists. Remember how desperate the Boston Bombers got and how many people they put in danger? The extra personnel and equipment were there in case they were needed, and fortunately in this case they were not. And once that became clear, they left. Better to have them and not need them than need them and not have them.

How far are you willing to go with that justification?

"Better to have the government watching everyone 24/7 and not need it than need it and not have it"

"Better to have militarized police crawling over every neighbourhood 24/7 and not need it than need it and not have it"

There are more imminent threats to society than terrorism and people are fine with not having disproportionate attention and effort put into those. Consider health care, or climate change or a million other statistically more likely things.

 

[Something Amyss]

EDIT:
To all of you shitting your pants that I didn't read the article, it was updated after I posted it while I was asleep.

The original article stated the man was at home googling "pressure cookers" not "pressure cooker bombs" while his wife, also at home, was googling backpacks at the same time.

And that's the problem with the media. They are quick to jump all over shit like this without things like "fact checking" or "research."

Thing is... Im kinda curious about "pressure cooker bombs". Is that an actual explosive device? or what happens if one miss-uses a pressure cooker?

A pressure-cooker bomb is the favourite of some terror groups. It's the type used specifically in the Boston Marathon bombing, which is one of the reasons it's so likely someone googled them after the bombing. It's cheap and easy to make a pretty damaging explosion (at least, to people, which is why it was so effective at a marathon).

 

[Something Amyss]

Nope, there's no way that's the whole story.



Whelp.

Come ON, guys. I know being cynical is cool, but police actually do have brains. They try not to waste their time on truly insignificant stuff, they're too busy. They have people whose main job is police-call prioritization. Source: Family in the police force.

This isn't about being cynical, it's about panic reactions. That's why the story caught on in the first place, and why the media ran with it. #douchetagbigbrother is trending and people ran with it. Maybe if people were more cynical, they'd ave considered the motives for running with such a story.

I have said this in similar threads before, but things like this are the reason I don't oppose the crazies that like to shoot at federal agents. The less of them there are, the less there is to harass us for stuff like this.

Yeah, because one group of cops followed up on a legit concern from a former employee, it's totally legit to shoot at cops in general.

...What? That makes no sense. Especially since people shooting at law enforcement or condoning it only increases the paranoia and animosity.

 

[Flames66]

Ugh...so since the PRISM scandal is already out, they just flat out stopped playing it careful and went on an all-out assault with the information they got? -.-

It's funny, in what...1960~1970? There was a small 'movement' of people that firmly believed that the government was spying on everyone and everything was a conspiracy. Well, it seems like they at least had the first part right, but for 40 years into the future. >_<

Yeah, I'm starting to think conspiracy theorists weren't that off the mark, really.
It's sort of crazy that they're not even hiding it anymore. The article states they visit about 100 people a day, that's bloody insane. That's 36,500 people a year because they wanted to cook a ham or fertilize their vegetable garden.

Well America, let me know how your own personal KGB plays out. I'm actually going to try to get the hell away from here.

I feel like bad things are going to happen very soon in the North American political climate.

I would probably be arrested if I was there because I would treat armed men turning up at my house as a home invasion and, if I had the opportunity, kill them.

 

[Moth_Monk]

I don't think that someone searching google for info on pressure cooker bombs and backpacks is a satisfactory reason to send militarized police into that person's home.

 

[major_chaos]

The amount of panicky overreaction in this thread is just sad. Good to see people will take any excuse to run with the whole "US is a dictatorship!!!" nonsense, even if they don't have all the facts.

 

[Flames66]

I have said this in similar threads before, but things like this are the reason I don't oppose the crazies that like to shoot at federal agents. The less of them there are, the less there is to harass us for stuff like this.

Yeah, because one group of cops followed up on a legit concern from a former employee, it's totally legit to shoot at cops in general.

...What? That makes no sense. Especially since people shooting at law enforcement or condoning it only increases the paranoia and animosity.

If they'd turned up at my house armed in that manner I would have shot at them (if I owned a gun). If I have the opportunity to attack and incapacitate anyone invading my home I will do so. If not I will attempt to escape. I don't care if they claim to represent the government.

 

[TakerFoxx]

So someone explain to me why people in this thread are cool with militarized cops being allowed to enter your home just because of something you've googled at work?

That'd be great.

They didn't show up just because the guy and his wife googled something, they were just following up on a tip the couple's boss left. And once it became clear that it was a false alarm, everyone went home. End of story.

Yes. I know. But why is OK that militarized police can go into one's home only based on a tip from your boss about internet search habits???

Because they didn't know if it was a false alarm or not, and were playing it safe on the off-chance that they were dealing with actual terrorists. Remember how desperate the Boston Bombers got and how many people they put in danger? The extra personnel and equipment were there in case they were needed, and fortunately in this case they were not. And once that became clear, they left. Better to have them and not need them than need them and not have them.

How far are you willing to go with that justification?

"Better to have the government watching everyone 24/7 and not need it than need it and not have it"

"Better to have militarized police crawling over every neighbourhood 24/7 and not need it than need it and not have it"

There are more imminent threats to society than terrorism and people are fine with not having disproportionate attention and effort put into those. Consider health care, or climate change or a million other statistically more likely things.

You do realize that the slippery slope argument is a logical fallacy, correct? I said none of those things, and unless society has somehow devolved into open warfare, nor would I.

=sigh=

Look, my point is that this specific incident isn't worth getting worked up about. Yes, it's sad that we live in a time where such measures have to become standard procedure. But unfortunately, with things like terrorist attacks, school shootings, and the like becoming more and more popular, yes the police do have to play it safe when they get a tip. It's a pain in the ass and more often than not, a waste of time, but they have to do it anyway, because if they slip up once and don't take the necessary precautions in the one instance when the threat is genuine, people die and everyone points the finger at them for being incompetent. There are plenty of instances of genuine police abuse and incompetence, and when one of those pops up, I'll gladly condemn for their actions. But this wasn't one of those cases.

 

[Moth_Monk]

So someone explain to me why people in this thread are cool with militarized cops being allowed to enter your home just because of something you've googled at work?

That'd be great.

They didn't show up just because the guy and his wife googled something, they were just following up on a tip the couple's boss left. And once it became clear that it was a false alarm, everyone went home. End of story.

Yes. I know. But why is OK that militarized police can go into one's home only based on a tip from your boss about internet search habits???

Because they didn't know if it was a false alarm or not, and were playing it safe on the off-chance that they were dealing with actual terrorists. Remember how desperate the Boston Bombers got and how many people they put in danger? The extra personnel and equipment were there in case they were needed, and fortunately in this case they were not. And once that became clear, they left. Better to have them and not need them than need them and not have them.

How far are you willing to go with that justification?

"Better to have the government watching everyone 24/7 and not need it than need it and not have it"

"Better to have militarized police crawling over every neighbourhood 24/7 and not need it than need it and not have it"

There are more imminent threats to society than terrorism and people are fine with not having disproportionate attention and effort put into those. Consider health care, or climate change or a million other statistically more likely things.

You do realize that the slippery slope argument is a logical fallacy, correct? I said none of those things, and unless society has somehow devolved into open warfare, nor would I.

=sigh=

I wasn't saying that if we allow the sort of situation described in the story in the OP then that other stuff is bound to follow. I'm asking you where YOU want the line to be drawn?

We've established that you don't have a problem with militarized police kicking your door down if someone tips the cops off about your google search habits, so I want to now what else you're comfortable with. What about the PRISM program or XKeystroke? How do you feel about those?

 

[TakerFoxx]

I wasn't saying that if we allow the sort of situation described in the story in the OP then that other stuff is bound to follow. I'm asking you where YOU want the line to be drawn?

We've established that you don't have a problem with militarized police kicking your door down if someone tips the cops off about your google search habits, so I want to now what else you're comfortable with. What about the PRISM program or XKeystroke? How do you feel about those?

We seem to have read different articles, because the one I have right in front of me clearly states that they KNOCKED on his door and properly identified themselves before asking if they could ask some questions. If they had kicked down the door, then yes, that would be too fucking far. But they didn't. They showed up, explained why they were there, asked some questions, and left after ascertaining that it was a false alarm.

And since you seem bound determined to make this about me, then...

Remember that story about the kid who made an off-color joke on Facebook and ended up going to prison for it? That was too far. They investigated, found nothing, but still felt they needed to lock him up with actual criminals despite not even having been convicted of anything. That was way over the line.

All those stories you hear about cops or SWAT breaking into people's houses and ending killing a family member or a pet because some mistaken information led them to believe that the owners were drug lords or something? Way over the line.

Universal surveillance on everyone without specific cause? Over the line.

Militarized patrolling of neighborhoods without specific cause? Over the line.

This specific case? A little embarrassing for the cops in hindsight, annoying for the man in question no doubt, and a waste of time, but not over the line. That's the point I'm trying to make.

 

[Moth_Monk]

Thanks, I'm glad you took time to make your point of view clear, TakerFoxx

 

[cthulhuspawn82]

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OK, talking about shooting at federal agents may have been an overreaction on my part. At least n relation to this case. This situation was just a stupid mix-up. But where prospect of you going to federal prion for a crime you did not commit is a reality, then yes, I believe in the right to shoot at the guys who come to take you away.

I should have been more specific in my comments, and sensitive to the fact that some here may work or have family who work for these federal agencies, but I stick by the core of my statement. If someone tries to put me in a prison cell because I goggled the cheapest place to buy fertilizer, I'm going to resist that. I hate being the guy who pulls Goodwin's Law, but nobody is going to disagree that you have the right to shoot at the Gestapo when they come to haul you off to the camps. Being a Jew is a much a crime as googling pressure cookers, both arrests are equally unwarranted.

 

[Something Amyss]

I hate being the guy who pulls Goodwin's Law, but nobody is going to disagree that you have the right to shoot at the Gestapo when they come to haul you off to the camps. Being a Jew is a much a crime as googling pressure cookers, both arrests are equally unwarranted.

So you justify the actions of crazy people being violent because of Imaginary Hitler? Still not cool.

 

[Something Amyss]

If they'd turned up at my house armed in that manner I would have shot at them (if I owned a gun). If I have the opportunity to attack and incapacitate anyone invading my home I will do so. If not I will attempt to escape. I don't care if they claim to represent the government.

So you'd shoot first simply because the police were ARMED in a specific fashion? Makes perfect sense.