Cracked.com does games (Again) (Yay!)

[Zydrate]

6 Moments that make Video Games worth it [http://www.cracked.com/blog/6-moments-that-make-video-games-worth-it/]

It wasn't until point #3 on the second page (Found here [http://www.cracked.com/blog/6-moments-that-make-video-games-worth-it_p2/] if you want to get straight to my opinion) that I discovered what I love most about my recent gaming.

Like Yahtzee mentioned, I'm all for linearity if it serves a great game... But I'm more of an open-ended kind of gamer. Starting with Morrowind, I've been spoiled to the fact that games can be complex enough to be in a world that lives on it's own, with or without you. The article mentions Skyrim, Halo, and Half-life. All of which I've noticed but was never really able to vocalize why I love the semi-newish genre of "Open-ended Gaming".
The best things this genre can do is make damn sure that we all know that the world moves with or without us.

Mass Effect 3 does this as well. If you don't act quickly (Within three missions of activating a couple of certain events)

Spoiler

Jack + students get captured and experimented on, and a bomb on Tuchanka explodes and ruins the potential for Krogan alliances.

Though ME is hardly open ended, these are the kinds of things that draw me to these games.

That's all I wanted to express, really. The discussion is open.

 

[evilneko]

Sadly, the "universe running without you" thing is all too rare. Some games make token efforts at it, but very, very few go as far as I think they should. The ME3 example you cite is pretty damn close though.

 

[Zydrate]

I think the Elder Scrolls is stepping in the right direction. As the article I linked said;

Now ... you're in an ecosystem, where there is a hierarchy of predator and prey that functions completely without you.

 

[DigitalAtlas]

Read it last night. Makes ya love gaming just so much.

 

[The_Lost_King]

He is completely right. Those are all awesome thing that make gaming worth it.

 

[Jasper Jeffs]

I disagree with the stuff he says about Skyrim, Skyrim is the least dynamic game world I've seen, everything is so scripted. I've said it elsewhere, but the game is fun up until the point you realise the world is waiting for you.. literally. Apart from that, good article.

 

[Vault101]

David wrong says somthing nice about video games for once...

 

[DoPo]

I disagree with the stuff he says about Skyrim, Skyrim is the least dynamic game world I've seen, everything is so scripted. I've said it elsewhere, but the game is fun up until the point you realise the world is waiting for you.. literally. Apart from that, good article.

Then, sadly, you haven't seen many other games. That giants and dragons thing David said should have been familiar to you. Way too many older games had that - all enemies target you, no matter what. It's like their only reason for existence is to fight you. And I'm talking about enemies that should hate each other. That's even going as far as them fighting until you make your appearance, at which point they drop their quarrels immediately and double team to take you down.

With this in mind, the giants fighting dragons is superb. I'm not saying Skyrim is perfect but neither did anybody else for that matter.

 

[Jasper Jeffs]

Then, sadly, you haven't seen many other games. That giants and dragons thing David said should have been familiar to you. Way too many older games had that - all enemies target you, no matter what. It's like their only reason for existence is to fight you. And I'm talking about enemies that should hate each other. That's even going as far as them fighting until you make your appearance, at which point they drop their quarrels immediately and double team to take you down.

With this in mind, the giants fighting dragons is superb. I'm not saying Skyrim is perfect but neither did anybody else for that matter.

I was referring to his sentiments regarding Skyrim, specifically "you're in an ecosystem, where there is a hierarchy of predator and prey that functions completely without you". Sure, Skyrim is good when you consider the behaviour of NPCs in older generations of games, but I find that quote to be false.

 

[SajuukKhar]

I was referring to his sentiments regarding Skyrim, specifically "you're in an ecosystem, where there is a hierarchy of predator and prey that functions completely without you". Sure, Skyrim is good when you consider the behaviour of NPCs in older generations of games, but I find that quote to be false.

I have walked around Skyrim a lot and frequently seen sabre cats, wolfs, and bears, hunting the deer, elk, and rabbits, that roam Skyrim.

Sabre cats, Wolves, and Bears, will fight each other also if they get in each others zones.

 

[Zydrate]

Sounds like the "If a tree falls and noone is around to hear it..." issue.

I mean, of COURSE the game isn't going to render encounters in some cell if you're not there at all. But the fact that we're there, observing other critters fight each other... Shows us the game isn't as single minded, as someone else has said, everything just attacking you.

 

[DoPo]

I was referring to his sentiments regarding Skyrim, specifically "you're in an ecosystem, where there is a hierarchy of predator and prey that functions completely without you". Sure, Skyrim is good when you consider the behaviour of NPCs in older generations of games, but I find that quote to be false.

And for this you called it "the least dynamic game world I've seen"? This is the biggest problem with gamers - they always overexaggerate every little thing, as if that is the only way to get their point across. See what I did there?

I have walked around Skyrim a lot and frequently seen sabre cats, wolfs, and bears, hunting the deer, elk, and rabbits, that roam Skyrim.

Sabre cats, Wolves, and Bears, will fight each other also if they get in each others zones.

Also this. There is wildlife and it is behaving at least somewhat believably.

 

[Cranky]

Yes, this is what made gaming my main hobby in the first place. And why I still love the ME series for what it once was.

 

[evilneko]

I disagree with the stuff he says about Skyrim, Skyrim is the least dynamic game world I've seen, everything is so scripted. I've said it elsewhere, but the game is fun up until the point you realise the world is waiting for you.. literally. Apart from that, good article.

Then, sadly, you haven't seen many other games. That giants and dragons thing David said should have been familiar to you. Way too many older games had that - all enemies target you, no matter what. It's like their only reason for existence is to fight you. And I'm talking about enemies that should hate each other. That's even going as far as them fighting until you make your appearance, at which point they drop their quarrels immediately and double team to take you down.

With this in mind, the giants fighting dragons is superb. I'm not saying Skyrim is perfect but neither did anybody else for that matter.

Skyrim wasn't even the first Bethesda game to do it. Factions fight each other in Fallout 3, too. Not sure about Oblivion, but I don't remember there being many encounters where that'd be a possibility in that game anyway. Also I didn't like Oblivion.

However, they do still suffer from the whole World-Waiting-For-You problem. In Fallout 3, at least it's somewhat explainable at some points in the plot.

 

[DoPo]

I disagree with the stuff he says about Skyrim, Skyrim is the least dynamic game world I've seen, everything is so scripted. I've said it elsewhere, but the game is fun up until the point you realise the world is waiting for you.. literally. Apart from that, good article.

Then, sadly, you haven't seen many other games. That giants and dragons thing David said should have been familiar to you. Way too many older games had that - all enemies target you, no matter what. It's like their only reason for existence is to fight you. And I'm talking about enemies that should hate each other. That's even going as far as them fighting until you make your appearance, at which point they drop their quarrels immediately and double team to take you down.

With this in mind, the giants fighting dragons is superb. I'm not saying Skyrim is perfect but neither did anybody else for that matter.

Skyrim wasn't even the first Bethesda game to do it. Factions fight each other in Fallout 3, too. Not sure about Oblivion, but I don't remember there being many encounters where that'd be a possibility in that game anyway. Also I didn't like Oblivion.

However, they do still suffer from the whole World-Waiting-For-You problem. In Fallout 3, at least it's somewhat explainable at some points in the plot.

I think Oblivion had the wildlife behaving properly. Or it could have been a mod I installed.

Anyway, yes, they do force solipsism on the player at a lot of points in the game. That's hardly grounds for Skyrim being the least dynamic, though. Fact: there are other less dynamic game worlds out there. Hence, Skyrim is not fit for that title.

 

[ChupathingyX]

Growing up with Crash Bandicoot is weird?

Never heard that one before.

 

[SonicWaffle]

I think Oblivion had the wildlife behaving properly. Or it could have been a mod I installed.

I missed much of Oblivion's non-town stuff because I got bored of trekking about and started to fast travel everywhere. Damnable woodlands.

Anyway, yes, they do force solipsism on the player at a lot of points in the game. That's hardly grounds for Skyrim being the least dynamic, though. Fact: there are other less dynamic game worlds out there. Hence, Skyrim is not fit for that title.

I think a lot of the misunderstanding comes from the notion of world vs game. Skyrim is an incredibly dynamic world; there's an ecosystem that carries on without you. The rain will fall, the animals will hunt and kill each other, the world keeps spinning regardless of player actions. It feels big, as if you can just fall into it and explore. It feels organic, usually, like you can just stand there and let it flow around you and the world will ignore you.

The game on the other hand has a bad case of thumb-up-the-arse, with every plot progression hinging on one individual. Nobody does anything themselves, the vast majority just sit around and wait for someone to come help them. They may sometimes chat to each other, but isn't their conversation usually quest related? Have you ever seen anyone go into a shop just to buy something? It gives the impression that everyone in the world is struck by some inertia, whereby they go through the same routines every day - sit on a throne and chat to an advisor, open a stall just on the off-chance and adventurer passes by, go hunting but never bother to loot the meat - before going home to sleep so they can get up to do it all again the next day.

The world itself, and its non-sentient inhabitants appear to have their own lives and struggles. The sentient ones seem more like talking furniture a lot of the time.

 

[FilipJPhry]

That article had a really interesting point on rhythm. I know I'm going off-topic here, but most of modern games these days lack rhythm, thanks to the world running without you. While there are games that still have rhythm outside the music games, but the perfect example is Batman Arkham City. In terms of combat and predator mode, if you have the right timing, tools and moves, you can pull off spectacular moments.

A combat example:


This just shows you how much fun combat can be once you pick up the rhythm and understand the special moves.

A predator example:


Did you see that? That must've come from hours and hours of practice. Hell, I couldn't pull this off (yet), I must've watched this clip at least 10 times.

 

[Jasper Jeffs]

And for this you called it "the least dynamic game world I've seen"? This is the biggest problem with gamers - they always overexaggerate every little thing, as if that is the only way to get their point across. See what I did there?

It was a hyperbole, although I do consider something like GTA IV or even Assassin's Creed to have a more dynamic world than Skyrim, if not solely for the fact that they at least hide the lines. On Skyrim you see the NPCs spawn in their fucking ready positions the moment you enter a town, it's depressing.

 

[The Funslinger]

Growing up with Crash Bandicoot is weird?

Never heard that one before.

That's what I was going to say!

As a wee boy, I remember the rampant joy that is Hog Wild: