Create a hostile faction in a modern fps

[Treblaine]

I didn't say it had to be realistic from todays political point of wiew, just that they would make for a good villain.

There is not a deep political meaning in everything.

OK then, HOW would the United States make for a good villain? If this isn't political, so don't give me any of your personal political issues.

Because they have a big and powerful military and seeing things from the underdogs perspective would be nice sometimes.

No, the US military isn't exceptionally big and powerful, it's redundant and expensive. Here's a look at how things get the way they are and to spite this being a dramatisation the numbers and details are all accurate:



They literally spend 1000 times as much for something that is less effective. I must point out, loading a troop compartment with 25mm explosive shells, means anything that penetrates the thin aluminium armour won't just create one or two casualties that may live, and the vehicle may be repaired... it'll burn and explode killing almost everyone inside and totally destroying the vehicle.

This puts into context the huge military expenditure of the US.

And don't even get me started on fighter jet procurement.

And this has been the case with the US military since WWII, where frontline commanders withheld the introduction of the Pershing Tank, a tank that could have totally overcome the threat of superior German tanks, all because they were so wed to the pre-war ideology of infantry-tanks and OPEN TOPPED tank destroyers. If the Germans hadn't run out of fuel the Americans would have been completely overrun, instead they were only occasionally overrun.

The US military constantly has a manpower shortage as conscription has become politically impossible and adequate retention of trained soldiers is untenable.

The thing is we've had American military forces as opponents in games DOZENS of times before. Half Life - the cornerstone of FPS gaming - had the US Marine Corps as the principal organised antagonist. And what was the big difference? How was it any different than if Black Mesa had been invaded by the Russian Spetznaz or the Chinese?

I can think of only one good gameplay reason to have American Military as the opponents, as they'll drop popular American weapons like M16s and M203 grenade launchers, that are so popular and ripe for gameplay design. I suppose it's also slightly more plausible they'll be giving commands and exclamations in English, and considering how many people know English this can be useful from a gameplay perspective of the added tactical element of guessing what the enemy is doing by what they yell. Like "fire in the hole" is telegraphing the move they're about to throw a grenade at you.

Frankly I think that this is much more about Politicised impressions of who the underdog is rather than who actually is.

 

[Arfonious]

I didn't say it had to be realistic from todays political point of wiew, just that they would make for a good villain.

There is not a deep political meaning in everything.

OK then, HOW would the United States make for a good villain? If this isn't political, so don't give me any of your personal political issues.

Because they have a big and powerful military and seeing things from the underdogs perspective would be nice sometimes.

No, the US military isn't exceptionally big and powerful, it's redundant and expensive. Here's a look at how things get the way they are and to spite this being a dramatisation the numbers and details are all accurate:



They literally spend 1000 times as much for something that is less effective. I must point out, loading a troop compartment with 25mm explosive shells, means anything that penetrates the thin aluminium armour won't just create one or two casualties that may live, and the vehicle may be repaired... it'll burn and explode killing almost everyone inside and totally destroying the vehicle.

This puts into context the huge military expenditure of the US.

And don't even get me started on fighter jet procurement.

And this has been the case with the US military since WWII, where frontline commanders withheld the introduction of the Pershing Tank, a tank that could have totally overcome the threat of superior German tanks, all because they were so wed to the pre-war ideology of infantry-tanks and OPEN TOPPED tank destroyers. If the Germans hadn't run out of fuel the Americans would have been completely overrun, instead they were only occasionally overrun.

The US military constantly has a manpower shortage as conscription has become politically impossible and adequate retention of trained soldiers is untenable.

The thing is we've had American military forces as opponents in games DOZENS of times before. Half Life - the cornerstone of FPS gaming - had the US Marine Corps as the principal organised antagonist. And what was the big difference? How was it any different than if Black Mesa had been invaded by the Russian Spetznaz or the Chinese?

I can think of only one good gameplay reason to have American Military as the opponents, as they'll drop popular American weapons like M16s and M203 grenade launchers, that are so popular and ripe for gameplay design. I suppose it's also slightly more plausible they'll be giving commands and exclamations in English, and considering how many people know English this can be useful from a gameplay perspective of the added tactical element of guessing what the enemy is doing by what they yell. Like "fire in the hole" is telegraphing the move they're about to throw a grenade at you.

Frankly I think that this is much more about Politicised impressions of who the underdog is rather than who actually is.

I still think that you are reading a bit too much into my original comment

 

[Dogstile]

So my question to you is:
Can you make up some enemy in a modern fps that isn't brown skinned, russian or something else that would count as a minority in the western world.

Why is it so bad for folks who happen to be brown skinned to be the enemies in games? If you are trying to base your game in a modern military setting, and you need a lot of enemies to fill up your levels, there are really not too many places to look. Africa, Asia, South America, and the Middle East are sort of the only places that a modern military could realistically be conceived to need to fight. Maybe Mexico, but you'd still just be fighting brown skinned people, which is bad for some reason, right? There just aren't any European terrorist states.

I mean, you can make it right wing nutjobs or a PMC or something, but the scope of the story would have to be pretty small.

All of this is assuming, of course, that the protagonist would be from the United States or some other western nation.

Why not a game where some crazed dictator ends up leading Great Britain, and decides he wants to restore the country to it's former glory by rebuilding the empire, starting with Europe. A western nation fighting other western nations could work. It doesn't have to be realistic, you could even set it in an alternate timeline. It can still be modern day, just with different politics in play.

They tried modern day with different politics, they called it homefront and everyone got annoyed because it's america and nothing can touch america, america is invincible.

 

[Treblaine]

They tried modern day with different politics, they called it homefront and everyone got annoyed because it's america and nothing can touch america, america is invincible.

Yeah, except ALL THE GAMES WITH AMERICANS AS ANTAGONISTS!

No. Homefront was ignored because it was a shitty COD clone, and the most lauded Modern Warfare 2, the big bad guy was a serving American General.

So you are utterly and categorically wrong that "everyone got annoyed because it's america".

I'm bloody fed up of these endless petty attacks on America.

PS: I wonder how long it'll be because I'm accused of a jingoistic reactionary American, even though I'm a Lib-dem voting Brit who has never been further west than Cornwall.

PPS: I wonder why every time there is a thread suggesting "novel antagonist" in video games a good fraction of the responses are "herp a derp, the Americans" as if games like Half Life never had the US Marine Corps as the antagonists, way to go with "innovation", just about catching up to where Valve was 15 years ago.

 

[Dogstile]

They tried modern day with different politics, they called it homefront and everyone got annoyed because it's america and nothing can touch america, america is invincible.

Yeah, except ALL THE GAMES WITH AMERICANS AS ANTAGONISTS!

No. Homefront was ignored because it was a shitty COD clone, and the most lauded Modern Warfare 2, the big bad guy was a serving American General.

So you are utterly and categorically wrong that "everyone got annoyed because it's america".

I'm bloody fed up of these endless petty attacks on America.

PS: I wonder how long it'll be because I'm accused of a jingoistic reactionary American, even though I'm a Lib-dem voting Brit who has never been further west than Cornwall.

PPS: I wonder why every time there is a thread suggesting "novel antagonist" in video games a good fraction of the responses are "herp a derp, the Americans" as if games like Half Life never had the US Marine Corps as the antagonists, way to go with "innovation", just about catching up to where Valve was 15 years ago.

What attack on America? You did see the reaction right? It was a bunch of people scoffing that it was unbelievable and could never happen because korea could never take on America, even in an alt universe. You can't get more "annoyed because it attacked america" than that.

Edit: Oh, i'm a brit to, so what?

Edit2: Fuck it, lets actually respond. In modern warfare two, the most big bad guy was actually maKarov, you just end up killing the general at the end of it. With half life two, the americans aren't the bad guys in it to take up the guy, they are black ops. From the wiki:

With the Black Ops, they are part of the "dangerous and very efficient clean-up crew" sent to Black Mesa in case of emergency, and are supposed to work in concert with the Black Mesa Security Force in these cases.

They're there to ensure that the project is never heard from again, arguably doing more good if they manage to close it down forever. The aliens are the main threat. The americans themselves are rarely the main threat.

 

[BLAHwhatever]

I'd like to see Americans as the bad folks in a game as well without it being comically or overly offensive and overdone.

But is it ever going to happen? It seems too big a chunk of the FPS buyers seem to be american patriots/rednecks that would shame the game to hell and back und refuse buying it if there ever was a game like that.

At least it seems like it

 

[Treblaine]

What attack on America? You did see the reaction right? It was a bunch of people scoffing that it was unbelievable and could never happen because korea could never take on America, even in an alt universe. You can't get more "annoyed because it attacked america" than that.

Edit: Oh, i'm a brit to, so what?

Edit2: Fuck it, lets actually respond. In modern warfare two, the most big bad guy was actually maKarov, you just end up killing the general at the end of it. With half life two, the americans aren't the bad guys in it to take up the guy, they are black ops. From the wiki:

With the Black Ops, they are part of the "dangerous and very efficient clean-up crew" sent to Black Mesa in case of emergency, and are supposed to work in concert with the Black Mesa Security Force in these cases.

They're there to ensure that the project is never heard from again, arguably doing more good if they manage to close it down forever. The aliens are the main threat. The americans themselves are rarely the main threat.

"It was a bunch of people scoffing that it was unbelievable and could never happen"

Nope. The few people who played it said the gameplay was terrible and the plot was bad even for a video game. Not because of implausibility, but because of hackneyed and painfully bad acting, and just slow tedious pacing presented like a Wikipedia summary. Plausibility hasn't held back any other game, not Half Life or Grand Theft Auto or, hell I don't need to tell you how many very popular games have implausible premises.

Russia invading both America AND Europe was no problem for the games of the Modern Warfare series.

From the wiki:

which can be edited by anyone, clearly that has been written by someone who has not played the Half Life games. If they had, it would be very clear it was the US Marine Corps, not some special black ops outfit, though there are ALSO black ops soldiers (who literally are clad entirely in black). And NEITHER worked along side the Black Mesa security.

The americans themselves are rarely the main threat.

Don't you love it when people who don't know anything about the Half Life games lecture to fans about the series...

 

[Treblaine]

I'd like to see Americans as the bad folks in a game as well without it being comically or overly offensive and overdone.

But is it ever going to happen? It seems too big a chunk of the FPS buyers seem to be american patriots/rednecks that would shame the game to hell and back und refuse buying it if there ever was a game like that.

At least it seems like it

It's only the single most lauded FPS game ever made...

It's so popular, it's one of the only 3D shooter there was an entirely FAN MADE remake!!! Even down to new voice acting.

It seems too big a chunk of the FPS buyers seem to be american patriots/rednecks that would shame the game to hell

The GTA series... can be summed up as... shooting American cops en mass. It's one of the MOST PROFITABLE video game series!!!

I had to check, this is in fact the "Gaming Discussion" website, only half the comments here seem to be TOTALLY OBLIVIOUS to the most popular video games ever made.

 

[Cheesepower5]

4chan founder "moot" becomes so rich and powerful that he owns and funds his own PMC Army. After using his backing at Anonymous to track the whereabouts of all the world's most wanted men. Multiplying his fame and fortune, moot's activities extend in to European, Asian and even South American shores. Although much of the Anonymous Army's activities have been considered good, the Senate fears his growing influence. You are sent to gather information on this new global force, only to uncover a terrible plot... But whose?

 

[Dogstile]

What attack on America? You did see the reaction right? It was a bunch of people scoffing that it was unbelievable and could never happen because korea could never take on America, even in an alt universe. You can't get more "annoyed because it attacked america" than that.

Edit: Oh, i'm a brit to, so what?

Edit2: Fuck it, lets actually respond. In modern warfare two, the most big bad guy was actually maKarov, you just end up killing the general at the end of it. With half life two, the americans aren't the bad guys in it to take up the guy, they are black ops. From the wiki:

With the Black Ops, they are part of the "dangerous and very efficient clean-up crew" sent to Black Mesa in case of emergency, and are supposed to work in concert with the Black Mesa Security Force in these cases.

They're there to ensure that the project is never heard from again, arguably doing more good if they manage to close it down forever. The aliens are the main threat. The americans themselves are rarely the main threat.

"It was a bunch of people scoffing that it was unbelievable and could never happen"

Nope. The few people who played it said the gameplay was terrible and the plot was bad even for a video game. Not because of implausibility, but because of hackneyed and painfully bad acting, and just slow tedious pacing presented like a Wikipedia summary. Plausibility hasn't held back any other game, not Half Life or Grand Theft Auto or, hell I don't need to tell you how many very popular games have implausible premises.

Russia invading both America AND Europe was no problem for the games of the Modern Warfare series.

From the wiki:

which can be edited by anyone, clearly that has been written by someone who has not played the Half Life games. If they had, it would be very clear it was the US Marine Corps, not some special black ops outfit, though there are ALSO black ops soldiers (who literally are clad entirely in black). And NEITHER worked along side the Black Mesa security.

The americans themselves are rarely the main threat.

Don't you love it when people who don't know anything about the Half Life games lecture to fans about the series...

Oh well excuse me, let me reiterate so you don't think i'm some pleb who's never played the oh so glorious half life. Actually, let me bold that for you.

I have played half life

Now, to counterpoint.

Modern warfare

Turns out people did have a problem with it. Not reviewers, obviously. They were to busy saying how the set pieces were all very "infiltrate, escalate, balls out" before switching it up. Not only did people complain on these forums that it seemed a bit odd that russia could invade the entire world, people also wondered on the trailers.

Aside from that, russia is a juggernaut, its a huge country and the average person knows exactly how brutally effective it was in world war two. Americans with the relatively recent cold war (its dated as recently as having been ended in 1991, that is pretty damn recent). This would have gone a long way into making people go "oh its fine, its russia, they're huge and a legitimate threat".

Homefront

Notice that at no point did I mention gameplay issues. The only complaints I was talking about were the ones where people said they wouldn't buy it simply because it's story had Korea attacking America. You mentioned few people bought the game, This is the reason why and is also my point, don't try to argue things unrelated to my point. I believe this is called a Red Herring, you can read up on them if you like.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_herring

Half life

It said the soldiers worked alongside black ops. That is clearly true as both forces are trying to eliminate everything inside black mesa. The black ops are also taking out marines, this is true, but they are both working to eliminate you, the player. The phrase used is correct.

Don't you love it when fans of half life assume anyone who also talks about half life hasn't played the games. I grew up on them, i've played them all multiple times. Make a point, not a personal attack. You're arguing like a child.

Edit:

Actually here, fuck it, have a link to people on this very website laughing at how implausible it is because korea couldn't possibly do anything to america.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/6.268130-Trailers-Homefront-Live-Action-Trailer

 

[gravian]

How about one where you play as a normal soldier/special ops in the US military and have to take down your own command structure in the army. Parts of the US high command, angry at proposed cuts to military spending reducing their influence and fearing that American power would decline, have become part of a military-industrial complex with the aim of starting wars using pretexts to continue high levels army funding and boosting the economy while furthering American influence.

You'd be invading a country like, say, Indonesia as they've been aiding Islamic terrorists in remote provinces, only to find out that its a ploy by the army and arms industries to further US influence by seizing resource-rich areas full of rare metals and inserting agents into the local administration to help fuel a "war economy" and increase their power in the US government. You would have to co-operate with the Indonesian "enemy" and perhaps European/Russian special forces to sabotage the high command's efforts and reveal the truth, while having to go through being labeled as a traitor and with a background of increasing world tensions due to the revealed involvement of other special forces.

There could be some missions as other unaware American special ops responding to the alleged betrayal of European forces by undertaking missions in European cities to assassinate key figures/steal intelligence etc. to add another dimension, and perhaps the chance for them to find out the truth and act upon it. There could also be a kind of choice system early on where you choose whether to defect from the US military to expose what's going on or continue fighting as the world begins to slide towards war and a nuclear conflict, again with interventions in Europe/Russia. Maybe also have an option to operate as a double agent or a system where the amount of intelligence you can find on a mission can add up to a total that could determine the chance and direction of world conflict.

I'd love to play a game like that which wouldn't be afraid of being controversial while also being relevant about genuine US problems (the budget, military power as China becomes more powerful, strength of arms industries).

 

[Lazy Kitty]

The entire human race.
And you play as... a robot or an alien or something.

Spiders.

A game where the object is just to massacre hordes of Spider.

Because ... fuck Spiders.

But wouldn't people just install mods that replaces the spiders with bears?

 

[BLAHwhatever]

It's only the single most lauded FPS game ever made...

It's so popular, it's one of the only 3D shooter there was an entirely FAN MADE remake!!! Even down to new voice acting.

Well, during my playthrough when the game came out I never got the feeling I was fighting America/Americans. I was fighting aliens and faceless soldiers in full body armor.

The GTA series... can be summed up as... shooting American cops en mass. It's one of the MOST PROFITABLE video game series!!!

I had to check, this is in fact the "Gaming Discussion" website, only half the comments here seem to be TOTALLY OBLIVIOUS to the most popular video games ever made.

Sure, I'm killing cops, but that's not the objective of the game. The objective is, most of the time, to take revenge/kill other criminals/fuck shit up. The game has a lot of self-irony towards american habits and such, I'll give it that, with all the news and talk-channels/commercials. You're also not playing a "hero" like in most FPS-games.

You're a criminal fighting other criminals and corrupt cops, killing good ones in the process which the game will try and punish you for.

When I say I'd like to see America portraied in a bad way. Imagine one of those Call of Duty introductions you get to see before missions, that tell you the story why you're going where you're going telling you America invaded this country, killed that many people, nuked that city and you are supposed to kill one of their generals.
All the shit you get told with Russians, arabs, North Koreans, Germans, Africans, whatever, just with Americans instead.

There's potential for a decent story in that, I feel. And I'd like to experience that.

 

[C4tt4nn4]

French people vs Canadians and depict both sides as full of bloodthirsty awesomely skilled soldiers.

this would be perfect, since it would all start due to a comical misunderstanding of accents, and quickly devolve into bloodshed over the proper word for blueberry or some such.

 

[Not Lord Atkin]

sexy nuns with RPGs! Oh wait...

 

[Treblaine]

What attack on America? You did see the reaction right? It was a bunch of people scoffing that it was unbelievable and could never happen because korea could never take on America, even in an alt universe. You can't get more "annoyed because it attacked america" than that.

Edit: Oh, i'm a brit to, so what?

Edit2: Fuck it, lets actually respond. In modern warfare two, the most big bad guy was actually maKarov, you just end up killing the general at the end of it. With half life two, the americans aren't the bad guys in it to take up the guy, they are black ops. From the wiki:

With the Black Ops, they are part of the "dangerous and very efficient clean-up crew" sent to Black Mesa in case of emergency, and are supposed to work in concert with the Black Mesa Security Force in these cases.

They're there to ensure that the project is never heard from again, arguably doing more good if they manage to close it down forever. The aliens are the main threat. The americans themselves are rarely the main threat.

"It was a bunch of people scoffing that it was unbelievable and could never happen"

Nope. The few people who played it said the gameplay was terrible and the plot was bad even for a video game. Not because of implausibility, but because of hackneyed and painfully bad acting, and just slow tedious pacing presented like a Wikipedia summary. Plausibility hasn't held back any other game, not Half Life or Grand Theft Auto or, hell I don't need to tell you how many very popular games have implausible premises.

Russia invading both America AND Europe was no problem for the games of the Modern Warfare series.

From the wiki:

which can be edited by anyone, clearly that has been written by someone who has not played the Half Life games. If they had, it would be very clear it was the US Marine Corps, not some special black ops outfit, though there are ALSO black ops soldiers (who literally are clad entirely in black). And NEITHER worked along side the Black Mesa security.

The americans themselves are rarely the main threat.

Don't you love it when people who don't know anything about the Half Life games lecture to fans about the series...

Oh well excuse me, let me reiterate so you don't think i'm some pleb who's never played the oh so glorious half life. Actually, let me bold that for you.

I have played half life

Now, to counterpoint.

Modern warfare

Turns out people did have a problem with it. Not reviewers, obviously. They were to busy saying how the set pieces were all very "infiltrate, escalate, balls out" before switching it up. Not only did people complain on these forums that it seemed a bit odd that russia could invade the entire world, people also wondered on the trailers.

Aside from that, russia is a juggernaut, its a huge country and the average person knows exactly how brutally effective it was in world war two. Americans with the relatively recent cold war (its dated as recently as having been ended in 1991, that is pretty damn recent). This would have gone a long way into making people go "oh its fine, its russia, they're huge and a legitimate threat".

Homefront

Notice that at no point did I mention gameplay issues. The only complaints I was talking about were the ones where people said they wouldn't buy it simply because it's story had Korea attacking America. You mentioned few people bought the game, This is the reason why and is also my point, don't try to argue things unrelated to my point. I believe this is called a Red Herring, you can read up on them if you like.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_herring

Half life

It said the soldiers worked alongside black ops. That is clearly true as both forces are trying to eliminate everything inside black mesa. The black ops are also taking out marines, this is true, but they are both working to eliminate you, the player. The phrase used is correct.

Don't you love it when fans of half life assume anyone who also talks about half life hasn't played the games. I grew up on them, i've played them all multiple times. Make a point, not a personal attack. You're arguing like a child.

Edit:

Actually here, fuck it, have a link to people on this very website laughing at how implausible it is because korea couldn't possibly do anything to america.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/6.268130-Trailers-Homefront-Live-Action-Trailer

Ok so you played Half Life... I gave you the benefit of the doubt of ignorance... now it's apparent you have no excuse for not knowing better or you are making claims you know are not true.

People can complain all they like, you are living proof that people can make ANY CLAIM on an internet forum, it doesn't change the fact that not only was Modern Warfare 2 hugely popular in sales it also swept the board on metacritic, to spite America being invaded by Russia. Your theory of why Homefront tanked is utterly in contradiction with the facts.

The only complaints I was talking about were the ones where people said they wouldn't buy it simply because it's story had Korea attacking America.

An issue you have concocted from nowhere. People were warned off getting this because the GAMEPLAY was awful, not at all because political opposition to the game because it DARED to have a future Super Korea invading and economically collapsed America. You've pulled that out of nowhere because a few people on an internet forum decided to make a fuss and ignoring the wider trends.

Don't give me a freaking internet thread, show me the popular critics who summarised Homefront as:

"A very good game that is worth playing, but I say we boycott this game because it dares to suggest that under ANY CIRCUMSTANCE America might be invaded by an Alliance of North Korea, South Korea and Japan"

Because that's your argument, it's a good game that was put down by a political boycott.

Frankly you are all over the place on Half Life.

The black ops are also taking out marines, this is true, but they are both working to eliminate you, the player.

Black ops only attack the few Marines in your group in Opposing Force where you are a Marine that is not the orders. The black ops and Marines fight closely with each other and are never seen fighting each other in Half Life nor Blue Shift.

Don't you love it when fans of half life assume anyone who also talks about half life hasn't played the games.

Well you are talking about them as if you've never played the games.

The fact is the principal antagonist in Half Life is the US Marine Corps, and you are either ignorant or deceptive to lead people to believe otherwise.

 

[Dogstile]

What attack on America? You did see the reaction right? It was a bunch of people scoffing that it was unbelievable and could never happen because korea could never take on America, even in an alt universe. You can't get more "annoyed because it attacked america" than that.

Edit: Oh, i'm a brit to, so what?

Edit2: Fuck it, lets actually respond. In modern warfare two, the most big bad guy was actually maKarov, you just end up killing the general at the end of it. With half life two, the americans aren't the bad guys in it to take up the guy, they are black ops. From the wiki:

With the Black Ops, they are part of the "dangerous and very efficient clean-up crew" sent to Black Mesa in case of emergency, and are supposed to work in concert with the Black Mesa Security Force in these cases.

They're there to ensure that the project is never heard from again, arguably doing more good if they manage to close it down forever. The aliens are the main threat. The americans themselves are rarely the main threat.

"It was a bunch of people scoffing that it was unbelievable and could never happen"

Nope. The few people who played it said the gameplay was terrible and the plot was bad even for a video game. Not because of implausibility, but because of hackneyed and painfully bad acting, and just slow tedious pacing presented like a Wikipedia summary. Plausibility hasn't held back any other game, not Half Life or Grand Theft Auto or, hell I don't need to tell you how many very popular games have implausible premises.

Russia invading both America AND Europe was no problem for the games of the Modern Warfare series.

From the wiki:

which can be edited by anyone, clearly that has been written by someone who has not played the Half Life games. If they had, it would be very clear it was the US Marine Corps, not some special black ops outfit, though there are ALSO black ops soldiers (who literally are clad entirely in black). And NEITHER worked along side the Black Mesa security.

The americans themselves are rarely the main threat.

Don't you love it when people who don't know anything about the Half Life games lecture to fans about the series...

Oh well excuse me, let me reiterate so you don't think i'm some pleb who's never played the oh so glorious half life. Actually, let me bold that for you.

I have played half life

Now, to counterpoint.

Modern warfare

Turns out people did have a problem with it. Not reviewers, obviously. They were to busy saying how the set pieces were all very "infiltrate, escalate, balls out" before switching it up. Not only did people complain on these forums that it seemed a bit odd that russia could invade the entire world, people also wondered on the trailers.

Aside from that, russia is a juggernaut, its a huge country and the average person knows exactly how brutally effective it was in world war two. Americans with the relatively recent cold war (its dated as recently as having been ended in 1991, that is pretty damn recent). This would have gone a long way into making people go "oh its fine, its russia, they're huge and a legitimate threat".

Homefront

Notice that at no point did I mention gameplay issues. The only complaints I was talking about were the ones where people said they wouldn't buy it simply because it's story had Korea attacking America. You mentioned few people bought the game, This is the reason why and is also my point, don't try to argue things unrelated to my point. I believe this is called a Red Herring, you can read up on them if you like.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_herring

Half life

It said the soldiers worked alongside black ops. That is clearly true as both forces are trying to eliminate everything inside black mesa. The black ops are also taking out marines, this is true, but they are both working to eliminate you, the player. The phrase used is correct.

Don't you love it when fans of half life assume anyone who also talks about half life hasn't played the games. I grew up on them, i've played them all multiple times. Make a point, not a personal attack. You're arguing like a child.

Edit:

Actually here, fuck it, have a link to people on this very website laughing at how implausible it is because korea couldn't possibly do anything to america.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/6.268130-Trailers-Homefront-Live-Action-Trailer

Ok so you played Half Life... I gave you the benefit of the doubt of ignorance... now it's apparent you have no excuse for not knowing better or you are making claims you know are not true.

People can complain all they like, you are living proof that people can make ANY CLAIM on an internet forum, it doesn't change the fact that not only was Modern Warfare 2 hugely popular in sales it also swept the board on metacritic, to spite America being invaded by Russia. Your theory of why Homefront tanked is utterly in contradiction with the facts.

The only complaints I was talking about were the ones where people said they wouldn't buy it simply because it's story had Korea attacking America.

An issue you have concocted from nowhere. People were warned off getting this because the GAMEPLAY was awful, not at all because political opposition to the game because it DARED to have a future Super Korea invading and economically collapsed America. You've pulled that out of nowhere because a few people on an internet forum decided to make a fuss and ignoring the wider trends.

Don't give me a freaking internet thread, show me the popular critics who summarised Homefront as:

"A very good game that is worth playing, but I say we boycott this game because it dares to suggest that under ANY CIRCUMSTANCE America might be invaded by an Alliance of North Korea, South Korea and Japan"

Because that's your argument, it's a good game that was put down by a political boycott.

Frankly you are all over the place on Half Life.

The black ops are also taking out marines, this is true, but they are both working to eliminate you, the player.

Black ops only attack the few Marines in your group in Opposing Force where you are a Marine that is not the orders. The black ops and Marines fight closely with each other and are never seen fighting each other in Half Life nor Blue Shift.

Don't you love it when fans of half life assume anyone who also talks about half life hasn't played the games.

Well you are talking about them as if you've never played the games.

The fact is the principal antagonist in Half Life is the US Marine Corps, and you are either ignorant or deceptive to lead people to believe otherwise.

So basically, if a professional reviewer doesn't say it, people weren't saying it? I've given you proof, its not hard to find more, all you have to do is google the reveal trailers and trail back through the comments, people were all over this. Refusing to look at the proof that is there does not make you right, you're better than that. Actually look up what you're arguing.

Modern warfare

The reason Modern warfare didn't tank is because the game that got everyone into it was extremely good for its time. I would be talking about COD4. The story was believable (terrorists want to get ahold of nukes) and not overdone at the time. Then people stayed for the multiplayer.

Then people started getting it purely for the multiplayer. Yet again, not an issue i've only just made up. Professionally paid reviewers have said that the story is fine, while long time fans who actually get into the game (that would apparently be you and half life) disagree because the story is crap and the multi is good.

Hell, I can count the number of people I know who have completed COD MW3's multiplayer on one hand if I include myself. I'd need 10 hands to count the number of people I know that own the game.

*Sigh* half life wankery, again...

They never fight eachother in the first half life because unless i'm missing a scene, they're never in the same room together. The AI is coded to fight alongside eachother but in opposing force they do indeed attack the military and the military is taken completely by surprise. They work alongside eachother until the black ops guys stab them in the back.

Go back and play the games again. Fuck, there's even a conversation between black ops soldiers talking about how they hate the marines because they always have to clean up their mess. There are radio transmissions of the soldiers being completely surprised by black ops attacking them.

You're wrong. I'm leaving it at that because obviously, the notion that homefront tanked because it was a shooter that featured korea taking on america and almost winning is clearly without thought, despite evidence to the contrary.

Sources:

http://half-life.wikia.com/wiki/Black_Ops
http://half-life.wikia.com/wiki/Black_Ops?action=history

Look, i've even given you the page history, so just in case "anyone can edit it" crosses your mind again, you can fucking check.

 

[HellbirdIV]

I dabbled with the idea a while back where you play a European (Danish in my script, but any Scandinavian country, Germany, Poland, Austria and Switzerland all work equally well) who is caught between the invading American and Russian forces - both of whom are racing to capture mainland Europe as WWIII breaks out - either picking a side or fighting both of them.

It might even give you some different gameplay where Russians attack in larger numbers with brute force (lots of mechanized units, large infantry troops), and the Americans use more close-air support (helicopters, drones), small fireteams of elite soldiers and generally approach you more cautiously as opposed to the more aggressive but easier to predict Russians.

 

[Treblaine]

Well, during my playthrough when the game came out I never got the feeling I was fighting America/Americans. I was fighting aliens and faceless soldiers in full body armor.

They're clearly American.

What, do they have to be waving american flags and wear cowboy hats for it to be enough for you?!?!? I don't know what you problem is, pal, or what you want to kill in FPS games.

The GTA series... can be summed up as... shooting American cops en mass. It's one of the MOST PROFITABLE video game series!!!

I had to check, this is in fact the "Gaming Discussion" website, only half the comments here seem to be TOTALLY OBLIVIOUS to the most popular video games ever made.

Sure, I'm killing cops, but that's not the objective of the game. The objective is, most of the time, to take revenge/kill other criminals/fuck shit up. The game has a lot of self-irony towards american habits and such, I'll give it that, with all the news and talk-channels/commercials. You're also not playing a "hero" like in most FPS-games.

You're a criminal fighting other criminals and corrupt cops, killing good ones in the process which the game will try and punish you for.

"Sure, I'm killing cops, but that's not the objective of the game."

When has killing been the objective anywhere else?!? In most games you can jsut run past the enemies, the objective it to get to progress through the level, or get certain items. Really you are talking like a conservative TV anchor when you talk as if "killing is the objective".


"You're a criminal fighting other criminals and corrupt cops"

Cops are the main opponent to your freedom in the game not because they are corrupt, but because you committed crimes. There is nothing corrupt about cops chasing criminals that is this job! If you don't kill anyone, steal anything or destroy anything the cops will completely ignore you in the GTA games. The games will be very boring, as they are all about being a criminal and I'll tell you, the principal overriding antagonist of criminals IS law enforcement.

Frankly, I don't see how anyone can play ANY video game and ever HONESTLY claim they aren't ever fighting and killing Americans.

When I say I'd like to see America portraied in a bad way. Imagine one of those Call of Duty introductions you get to see before missions, that tell you the story why you're going where you're going telling you America invaded this country, killed that many people, nuked that city and you are supposed to kill one of their generals.
All the shit you get told with Russians, arabs, North Koreans, Germans, Africans, whatever, just with Americans instead.

There's potential for a decent story in that, I feel. And I'd like to experience that.

But that would be exceptional demonisation of America.

Look at how the Russians were depicted as the antagonists (notice the term I sued there, not "bad guy") in Modern Warfare 2, they weren't attacking america because they are evil, but because they think America is responsible for a terrible massacre at their airport. And it turns out they weren't entirely wrong, as General Shepard seems to have in some way been behind it and intended to provoke the war.

Hell COD4 the opening they give a chance for the big bad guy to give a speech for why he hates America, going on about how his land was "prostituted" to America, it never says why Russia was deserving of any attack, only the antagonists stating why AMERICA was deserving of attack.

This doesn't seem to be about gameplay, this seem to be about indulging your prejudiced political views at the expense of others.

 

[DRTJR]

Ra's Al Ghul Style Environmental Terrorists destroy D.C. Dallas, NYC, Houston, Atlanta, and Detroit sending America into utter chaos as the remains of the army and government try to restore order and defeat the perpetrators of such a vile act.