Critics got it wrong

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Ken_J

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I recently got done playing Modern Warfare 2 and when playing the story mode I kept Yahtzee's and Moviebob's criticism of the story mode, i.e. the could almost hear the developers crying 'Wolverines'. But playing it I realized the where very wrong, that was the villain's motive and that the Red Dawn worship is a bad thing. I like these guys but there thought process must have been off.


Another one of mine is also one of Moviebob's. In his overveiw of Other M (which I haven't played so I can't talk about it) and other videos. He denounces the Prime spin-offs as Just another FPS, or Nintendo's 'me tooing' of Halo. Anyone who played them knows there not, yes there's shooting in a first person perspective (they are first person MetroidVainia BTW) but by that logic the Spyro series is a third person shooter.

I know I'm not alone in spotting these, When Critics seem like they weren't even paying attention. What have you guys seen?

EDIT: Movie critics too
 

triggrhappy94

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Well critics are human too.
One thing I noticed is that Yahtzee doesn't always pay close attention to the story, when he talks about easily missed plot points. I don't blame him, because those points aren't the easiest things to notice. I only noticed them, because I might as well have been combing the game with blood hound to find every bit of narrative.
(I'm sorry, but I can't place any names with those games, right now. I'm going to go look through the ZP library and find the games I'm talking about)
 

Ken_J

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triggrhappy94 said:
Well critics are human too.
One thing I noticed is that Yahtzee doesn't always pay close attention to the story, when he talks about easily missed plot points. I don't blame him, because those points aren't the easiest things to notice. I only noticed them, because I might as well have been combing the game with blood hound to find every bit of narrative.
(I'm sorry, but I can't place any names with those games, right now. I'm going to go look through the ZP library and find the games I'm talking about)
The MW2 thing is easy to notice if you pay attention to the Plot, which is what you should be doing if your going to complain about it.
 

SouthpawFencer

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It would be helpful if you could provide a link to MovieBob's criticism of MW2 and the Metroid Games. Considering that he does two videos and one written article a week, and MW2 came out two years ago, that's a lot of digging for something that probably isn't titled "Why I Think That Modern Warfare 2 is Worshipping Red Dawn".

Also, I don't actually recall the ZP review of MW2 EVER bringing up Red Dawn. In fact, I just re-watched his MW2 review, and Red Dawn wasn't brought up at all. Please provide citations so that we can see precisely what the people you're criticizing actually SAID (or wrote). Again, actual links would be preferred, thanks.

As for times when critics got it wrong: Roger Ebert's review of the film Push (a film that I personally think is the best adaptation of X-Men to hit the screen so far, although I haven't seen First Class yet). If you've seen the film, check out his review, and I challenge you to disagree with my belief that he was either drunk or high when he saw it, or that he simply wasn't paying the slightest attention. If you haven't seen Push and you're a fan of superhero movies, I recommend it.

Ebert's Review: http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090204/REVIEWS/902059995

EDIT: Here's the ZP review of MW2, so other people don't have to dig through the archives: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/1118-Call-of-Duty-Modern-Warfare-2
 

Drakmeire

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Critics can be bias just like the rest of use. just find one that you agree with a lot and stick with them.
I enjoy MovieBob but sometimes he lets nostalgia and "Good-idea, poor execution" cloud his judgement. I agree with almost all of his reviews but...
Metroid: other M was a complete mess with over-long, rambling cutscenes and lackluster gameplay that felt like I was playing a God of War clone.
Daybreakers was a boring cliche-fest that's only saving grace was a cool premise that got canceled out by the movie's faults.
Repo: The Genetic Opera was a fun cult film with catchy music and awesome visuals.
Everyone forgets that he also liked the Last Airbender... I'll let you guys form your own opinions about that one.
but despite these disputes I will give him the benefit of the doubt and go see movies he says are good. I've been steered right more than wrong.
 

Drummie666

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If there's anything I've learned from being a gamer, it is to never trust anyone's opinion except your own. Hell, I don't think I've heard another person's opinion on Fallout 3 that's similar to mine.
The best you can do is find someone you agree with more than not and trust him/her, you will always have a disagreement with them once in a while, but there's only one of you, so that's the best you can get.
 

Adam Galli

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I thought MW/MW2 had great campaigns. I just hope MW3 lives up to them.

I never let anyone persuade me from not playing a game. If I listened to critics then I wouldn't have played and had loads of fun playing Conflict: Desert Storm and Conflict: Desert Storm 2. The most I'll do is look at reviews of different games and maybe change when I purchase them.
 

Chase Yojimbo

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I would like to point out that ALL Critics are men and women who simply give their opinions on a topic or topics to the world. What you are doing now is Critiquing a Critics work. So do you have it wrong?

Critics have it right, but only in their own way. They give their opinions based on what they believe to be right. If they had to nitpick EVERY FUCKING THING that involved what the reader/watcher/consumer wanted, they would be so god damn useless they wouldn't be critics, they would be tools (sortuv like what Microsoft is). Their opinions are meant to give you the insentive to try the game/watch the movie/try the food (whatever) yourself. Whether or not you agree with the end result of the Critic is your choice alone but in the end, the Critics work is done because you were still curious as to whether or not this critic knew what he or she was talking about, or was simply just giving an opinion (or was a Tool).

Your arguement is invalid because if you think a critic is wrong, you are therefore stating that Freespeech, Freethinking and most of all, Individualism is wrong. Plus in the first paragraph I presented a Paradox, so you should have exploded... "Rule of Aperature: If it goes rogue, hit it with a Paradox".
 

KanHanderan

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This may land me a warning, but to quote Yahtzee somewhat: "If you need the assurance of a critic to let you know you're having fun, why don't you let them stomp on the other side of your face, too?"
 

Palademon

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After my ZPthon I've had the passed few days I can say that Yahtzee does make a few mistakes. Like how in Split/Second he said they just use the same tracks over and over, and they should at least change routes or do it backwards since the demographic probably wouldn't even notice, and GUESS WHAT PEOPLE, Yahtzee didn't.
 

Ken_J

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SouthpawFencer said:
It would be helpful if you could provide a link to MovieBob's criticism of MW2 and the Metroid Games. Considering that he does two videos and one written article a week, and MW2 came out two years ago, that's a lot of digging for something that probably isn't titled "Why I Think That Modern Warfare 2 is Worshipping Red Dawn".

Also, I don't actually recall the ZP review of MW2 EVER bringing up Red Dawn. In fact, I just re-watched his MW2 review, and Red Dawn wasn't brought up at all. Please provide citations so that we can see precisely what the people you're criticizing actually SAID (or wrote). Again, actual links would be preferred, thanks.


Ebert's Review: http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090204/REVIEWS/902059995

EDIT: Here's the ZP review of MW2, so other people don't have to dig through the archives: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/1118-Call-of-Duty-Modern-Warfare-2
http://screwattack.com/videos/TGO-Episode-40-Heavens-to-Metroid
http://screwattack.com/videos/TGO-Episode-31-Whats-The-Difference

Ask and you shall receive. Warning his GTO videos can get long.

EDIT: Yahtzee "the hole thing plays like the violent delusions of a cold war fantasist"
The Red Dawn thing is my paraphrasing, the Wolverines thing is easer to type.
Moviebob "This is the closes thing you will get to seeing the world through the eyes of a masturbating Glenn Beck"
The Red Dawn thing is my paraphrasing, the Wolverines thing is easer to type.
 

viranimus

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SouthpawFencer said:
As for times when critics got it wrong: Roger Ebert's review of the film Push (a film that I personally think is the best adaptation of X-Men to hit the screen so far, although I haven't seen First Class yet). If you've seen the film, check out his review, and I challenge you to disagree with my belief that he was either drunk or high when he saw it, or that he simply wasn't paying the slightest attention. If you haven't seen Push and you're a fan of superhero movies, I recommend it.
Yes Ive long been in the vein that Ebert is a hack. Honestly I enjoyed Push and well feel sort of disapointed it likely wont get a true sequel, but heres hoping the television series will be able to flesh this world out much more.
 

RedEyesBlackGamer

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Ken_J said:
I recently got done playing Modern Warfare 2 and when playing the story mode I kept Yahtzee's and Moviebob's criticism of the story mode, i.e. the could almost hear the developers crying 'Wolverines'. But playing it I realized the where very wrong, that was the villain's motive and that the Red Dawn worship is a bad thing. I like these guys but there thought process must have been off.


Another one of mine is also one of Moviebob's. In his overveiw of Other M (which I haven't played so I can't talk about it) and other videos. He denounces the Prime spin-offs as Just another FPS, or Nintendo's 'me tooing' of Halo. Anyone who played them knows there not, yes there's shooting in a first person perspective (they are first person MetroidVainia BTW) but by that logic the Spyro series is a third person shooter.

I know I'm not alone in spotting these, When Critics seem like they weren't even paying attention. What have you guys seen?

EDIT: Movie critics too
MovieBob does not know games. That stuff is par for the course with him. The others just have biases. Interpretations of things are different for different people. Yahtzee is just poking fun.
OP: I'm sure that all of the critics who panned Doctor Strangelove are rolling in their graves now.
 

Trishbot

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I can think of many games that even critics ate crow on later and recanted.

Peter Molyneux's "Black & White" was praised as the second-coming on PC for awhile, given supremely high scores and rave critical praise... but a few years later and these very same critics (at least some) apologized for doing so, saying the game was far more flawed than it had any right to be, that much of it was them buying into the hype and overlooking the flaws. It's still considered an okay game, but it's a stark contrast from the universal praise it had at launch.

"Perfect Dark Zero" is another one. Check out the metacritic. The scores are supremely high, and this is still in the post-Halo 2 days of FPS. But it's now considered a fairly terrible game, an amateurish embarrassment to the franchise, and some of the same critics that gave it high scores now list it amongst the worst sequels ever made. Considering its predecessor, that's doubly disappointing.

"Sonic Adventure" is a textbook example. The Dreamcast system-sellar had massive praise and sells, but when it was released a few years later on Gamecube, nearly intact, it was slapped with low scores that criticized the broken gameplay (not the graphics) and terrible level design.

Inversely, I remember reading several middling and low scores for Valve's "Team Fortress 2" at release, with a large portion of critics overlooking it, dismissing it, and calling it the "least interesting" game in the Orange Box, especially next to critical darlings "Half-Life 2" and "Portal". But years of community, study, gameplay, and support later and many of these same critics have actually gone back and either re-rated the game more favorably or confessed they wish they could alter their scores because they didn't "get" the game on their first run. Team Fortress 2 is now widely considered on of the best team-based shooters in existence and a timeless classic with a loyal and passionate community and fanbase. Not bad for the "worst" game on Orange Box.

My own personal feelings on games critics (and sometimes fans) got wrong include the following:

Castlevania: Legacy of Darkness - It's popular to hate on the N64 Castlevania games. They're terrible. Garbage. Yuck. I'd wager most of these people never actually played the game, and even fewer ever played the enhanced update, Legacy of Darkness, for the N64... especially since the game was in such short supply. Basically, it addresses, fixes, or improves nearly every aspect of the original game, doubling the length (and adding two new characters), a wealth of new environments, amazing music, improved controls, towering bosses, a smarter camera, enhanced visuals, a more coherent story, multiple endings, and much much more. I'd actually call it one of the top 5 adventures games on the N64 in the same pantheon as Ocarina of Time, Conker's Bad Fur Day, Banjo-Kazooie, and Rocket: Robot on Wheels.

Two Worlds 2 - This is again directed at most "fans" that have never played the game. The critical reception was actually very high, especially considering how TERRIBLE the first game was. But the sequel is nearly 100% better in every last single regard. Everything is improved: graphics, music, interface, combat, load times, dialogue, voice acting, cutscenes, RPG elements, monster designs, weapon and spell variety, customization, online features, etc. It's one of the meatiest RPGs on the market, period. Is it as good as The Witcher 2? Not even close. But it's also not the abomination many have said it was going to be, or still is, based off of how bad the first one was. I even enjoyed it more than Dragon Age 2... and I'm a die-hard Bioware fan.

Ninja Gaiden - This is my own personal take; I know the people that love this game LOVE it, and it's been showered with worthy praise. I loved it too... and I HATE it. And it all boils down to the difficulty. That's upsetting because it was DESIGNED to be difficult, but my enjoyment of the game is hampered by this design. Nothing is enjoyable about dying five times in a row, going back to your last save point, cutting through waves of enemies, only to die again due to overpowered, hard-to-predict bosses or monsters. But that's okay. That's fine. It's great to have a challenge every now and then. But Ninja Gaiden fails to provide a difficulty mode for casual players. I would LOVE to spend hours of my time mastering and perfecting the nuanced, deep, intricate, and lovingly-crafted combat system to become a true Ninja Master... but I have a job, bills to pay, college seminars to study for, and dozens of other, more easily enjoyable games to play. Just having the option to not be perfect 100% of the time in a Ninja Gaiden game would make me go from hating it to loving it, but it's just not there (even on Ninja Dog). Ninja Gaiden's "normal" mode is harder than most games' hardest mode, and while I can beat multiple games on hardest difficulties relatively problem free, Ninja Gaiden alone makes me rage. I just CANNOT enjoy the game, no matter how pretty it looks, smooth it plays, great it sounds, or bouncy the boobs can be.
 

NightlyNews

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SouthpawFencer said:
As for times when critics got it wrong: Roger Ebert's review of the film Push (a film that I personally think is the best adaptation of X-Men to hit the screen so far, although I haven't seen First Class yet). If you've seen the film, check out his review, and I challenge you to disagree with my belief that he was either drunk or high when he saw it, or that he simply wasn't paying the slightest attention. If you haven't seen Push and you're a fan of superhero movies, I recommend it.

Ebert's Review: http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090204/REVIEWS/902059995

EDIT: Here's the ZP review of MW2, so other people don't have to dig through the archives: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/1118-Call-of-Duty-Modern-Warfare-2
I enjoyed push and have suggested it to several people. However, one of the reasons I liked it was because I had such low expectations (in my mind I connected it with jumper one of the worst movies ever made).

However, Ebert's review is pretty accurate. Although the plot of push is badass the movie from a director or critical view is kinda trash. It uses in medias res, but kills any chance of us being surprised with the exposition at the beginning that explains the peoples powers. Several times people have the motive and the capability to kill someone and don't simply because the story would end if they do.

Ebert was definitely too critical, but he's not off his rocker. He is normally a decent source for movie reviews.
 

KarlMonster

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I'm willing to allow that specific critics have their own idiosyncrasies. They should post a summary of that critic's previous reviews so I can go see if I agree with them before looking at any new review. On the other hand, some games vary between platforms. A good example would be The Force Unleashed, which I hear had very different level design depending on what machine you were playing. Now, I'm PC-only (not starting anything, just getting that out of the way). So, I'll also allow that Yahtzee etc. really have to compare that specific title to what else is available on that and other platforms.

However, two games that I liked a lot less; CoD4, and Batman:AA

Now, maybe the content in CoD4 is different on PC. I thought it played like the single player Counter-Strike. Not the CS by Rare, the unfinished one with the global campaign which needed about 2 months worth of polish to prevent enemies from insta-killing you in certain places. Yes, there was a provocative cutscene. Yes, being a gunner on Puff the Magic Dragon is massively entertaining. Maybe those distract from the obvious, because subsequent play-throughs expose it for the frustrating rail shooter that it is. I'm still furious that I spent a lot of time lining up that sniper shot, only to have it turn into a cutscene where I had no control. If CoD4 needed a botched op to move the story, it didn't need me in it. Crosswind, my ass. Then we should be shooting from somewhere else! Pffft to CoD4.

How can I not like Batman:AA? Crime Craft. I played CC for about 3 months before I ever touched B:AA. Crime Craft is an MMO that is short on Crime, and short on Crafting, but has decent PvE and lots of stinky PvP. CC does the same 'flowing combat' thing with its knifing animations that B:AA does with all its hand-to-hand, so I was less impressed with the button-mash combat. Yahtzee liked the Scarecrow sequences, and I'll respect that. I personally didn't play it because I wanted a 2.5D side-scroller. The Riddler puzzles are neat, but they also force you to go back over the entire map if you really want to find them all. And I would have gone along with that happily - except that B:AA doesn't give you the tools to do that until it wants to. Which means multiple trips around the map. And it turns out those tools were in the Batmobile/Batcave/Batjet the whole time. The whole time. So now that the game's almost over, now I finally get the tool I need? Ugh. Batman is such a jerk. There should be an unlockable Chuck Norris that can break through every surface without the silly tools. That would have made it worthwhile. Maybe it was better on consoles, but it was less than I expected.
 

SilentCom

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Ken_J said:
I recently got done playing Modern Warfare 2 and when playing the story mode I kept Yahtzee's and Moviebob's criticism of the story mode, i.e. the could almost hear the developers crying 'Wolverines'. But playing it I realized the where very wrong, that was the villain's motive and that the Red Dawn worship is a bad thing. I like these guys but there thought process must have been off.
Isn't one of the missions in MW2 called 'Wolverines!'? Also, the plot isn't very good for numerous reasons. It's not believable, its overdramatic, has many holes, and ends on a horrible cliff hanger that screams sequel.
 

teebeeohh

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yeah critics are human too, shocker.
i like moviebob but whenever he puts on the nostalgia glasses he annoys the everliving crap out of me. Cartridges were a bad concept in the mid 90s, bringing them back would be...well even more horrible. Not everything Nintendo does is solid gold just because people born in the early 80s are reminded of their childhood every time they see a fat plumber.

OH and push was a piece of crap, i wanted to like it but it was waaaay o long and bored the crap out of me.
 

SouthpawFencer

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NightlyNews said:
However, Ebert's review is pretty accurate. Although the plot of push is badass the movie from a director or critical view is kinda trash. It uses in medias res, but kills any chance of us being surprised with the exposition at the beginning that explains the peoples powers. Several times people have the motive and the capability to kill someone and don't simply because the story would end if they do.

Ebert was definitely too critical, but he's not off his rocker. He is normally a decent source for movie reviews.
My reasons for thinking that Ebert was off his rocker for he reviewed Push is due to the following (all taken from his online review [http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090204/REVIEWS/902059995]):

He refers to Cassie (Dakota Fanning) as a Pusher. If he'd referred to Nick (Chris Evans), the Mover as a Pusher, I'd have written it off since "somebody who moves objects with his mind" is close enough to "somebody who pushes objects with his mind" for a critic who clearly regarded seeing this film as a hardship. Pretty much EVERYBODY in the film identifies her as a Watcher. You cannot have paid any actual attention to the film and still made this mistake. It is impossible.

He said that Division wanted Kira dead. Again, you cannot possibly make this mistake if you paid the slightest attention to the movie.

He said that Cassie's mom had been killed. Once again, you cannot make this mistake and still have paid attention to the film. Cassie's entire motivation for being in Hong Kong was to rescue her mom. Plus, anybody who paid the slightest attention would have made the connection that the doped-up woman dropping the marble in the beginning of the movie was Cassie's mother, demonstrating why she's considered one of the most powerful Watchers in the world.

Basically, nearly every aspect of the film that he mentioned in his review was factually wrong. I'm kind of surprised that he got the city right. It would not have shocked me if he'd claimed that it was taking place in Shanghai.

I don't mind that he didn't like the movie. I often enjoy movies that critics do not like. All movie reviews are subjective, and I have lowbrow movie tastes. I was annoyed because his review makes me seriously wonder if he actually watched the movie at all, much less paid attention, before panning it.
 

Sir Boss

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i completley lost faith in the game critic as a profession after i was horribly burned in regards to one specific series. I told this fact to a friend, he turned me on to Zero punctuation as he shared my opinion on this series, now, he's the only critic i put any faith in to.

um, my point what was it again? *ahem* oh yes, reviewers are just human, have their own opinions, and their opinions may indeed be different to yours.