Crouch-jumping in Black Mesa: Source
- Thread starter Kingjackl
- Start date
You just jump forward and press ctrl or whatever key you have binded to that.
I don't see how this is an issue.
I don't see how this is an issue.
Yeah, making crouch jumping a requirement, while for many of us might be trivial, really is just poor design. It's a failing in a thing called 'conveyance'. For another example, invisible walls are also an issue of poor conveyance, cause they do not convey their mechanics to the player.
So in this courch jumping case, if it is so important, than by default it should automatically do it for you.
If it's not so important, then normal jumping should be able to get you everywhere that the game requires.
They're putting a needless and unintuitive 'feature' in to trip up players. It doesn't make it any more engaging, it just literally seems like an oversight by the creators who are just automatically in the habit of crouch jumping. One of those old game designer trip ups infact, you get so use to playing/testing your own game while developing it, that the glitches, awkwardness or other issues don't even register for you cause you are so practiced you just automatically avoid them.
It's why it's important to get play testers, and a good sample of playtesters, like literally family members who are likely non-gamers, they will often give you the best feedback(not meaning advice from them, but from observing them. Like the guy in that video posted above a bit, who demonstrates exactly this)
It would be kinda like if you had to hold ctl + mouse click to shoot. Sure, it's trivial, and sure it may become second nature to people... but why should it be there in the first place?
So in this courch jumping case, if it is so important, than by default it should automatically do it for you.
If it's not so important, then normal jumping should be able to get you everywhere that the game requires.
They're putting a needless and unintuitive 'feature' in to trip up players. It doesn't make it any more engaging, it just literally seems like an oversight by the creators who are just automatically in the habit of crouch jumping. One of those old game designer trip ups infact, you get so use to playing/testing your own game while developing it, that the glitches, awkwardness or other issues don't even register for you cause you are so practiced you just automatically avoid them.
It's why it's important to get play testers, and a good sample of playtesters, like literally family members who are likely non-gamers, they will often give you the best feedback(not meaning advice from them, but from observing them. Like the guy in that video posted above a bit, who demonstrates exactly this)
It would be kinda like if you had to hold ctl + mouse click to shoot. Sure, it's trivial, and sure it may become second nature to people... but why should it be there in the first place?
It annoyed me as well in Black Mesa. I think I played through all of HL1 without ever crouch jumping. I don't think I even knew about the technique. I'm not annoyed that they make use of crouch jumping in Black Mesa but that it's so focused on it. The argument about going back to the roots confuse me.
HL1 was a casual shooter, it catered to people who wasn't into shooters in various ways. Levels was designed so people wouldn't get stuck, it had lots of visual hints to help people not getting lost, and it didn't require crouch jumping.
Thats what Valve did then, and also to some extent have focused on in the Portal games. Easy, smooth, hand-holding games playable for those of us that wasn't into shooters much.
I imagine the designers of Black Mesa had Quake and Unreal in mind when they talk about 'going back to the roots'. Personally I hated those, I thought they were terrible.
HL1 was a casual shooter, it catered to people who wasn't into shooters in various ways. Levels was designed so people wouldn't get stuck, it had lots of visual hints to help people not getting lost, and it didn't require crouch jumping.
Thats what Valve did then, and also to some extent have focused on in the Portal games. Easy, smooth, hand-holding games playable for those of us that wasn't into shooters much.
I imagine the designers of Black Mesa had Quake and Unreal in mind when they talk about 'going back to the roots'. Personally I hated those, I thought they were terrible.
Oh god there's a video of that guy going through Metal Gear Solid 2 and 3 and failing miserably. I got a video in case you were interested.Glongpre said:
OT: Just change the controls so Crouch Jumping is less awkward. It's been like this for over 15 years now so I don't see a reason to suddenly change it. That' why we're all so used to Crouch Jumping by now.
Can't you simply bind space to both jump and duck if that's a problem for you?
I don't know in Black Mesa but in other Source games it works with:
alias +duckjump "+jump; +duck"
alias -duckjump "-jump; -duck"
bind space +duckjump
You'll have to hold space all the way of course to remain ducking.
It will not make you lose some precision control of using both separated: you can still small jump by pressing duck first then duckjump in succession; you can still quick land by releasing duckjump the same way you'd release duck; etc.
This reminds me of something funny: http://youtu.be/rxqeJfzzipE?t=37s
I don't know in Black Mesa but in other Source games it works with:
alias +duckjump "+jump; +duck"
alias -duckjump "-jump; -duck"
bind space +duckjump
You'll have to hold space all the way of course to remain ducking.
It will not make you lose some precision control of using both separated: you can still small jump by pressing duck first then duckjump in succession; you can still quick land by releasing duckjump the same way you'd release duck; etc.
This reminds me of something funny: http://youtu.be/rxqeJfzzipE?t=37s
Well for a start it just gives you more fidelity in your movements. It's just 2 buttons, what will you complain is too difficult next? You want the game to aim for you too?
You say it's outdated but I use it all the time in Battlefield, Call of Duty, even Skyrim for crying out loud.
You say it's outdated but I use it all the time in Battlefield, Call of Duty, even Skyrim for crying out loud.
You're alone, practice your crouch jumping more. The crouch jump is a staple in just about every first person game ever made, it's always Space/ctrl too, if you can't do it by now there's no hope for you!Kingjackl said:
When it comes to Source games, Crouch Jumping is pretty much a natural reflex for me.
It's like playing a game where you can do a double jump. You know that you'll be able to make the gap in a single jump, but just to make sure you press the jump button again anyway.
It's like playing a game where you can do a double jump. You know that you'll be able to make the gap in a single jump, but just to make sure you press the jump button again anyway.
Just because its been nine months doesn't mean they're being stubborn. They haven't released a patch at all since the first release, simply because there weren't that many issues to fix. Yes the crouch jump thing is a problem, but it's not a HUGE problem that requires immediate fixing.Kingjackl said: