D&D 3.5 vs 4.0

baddog117

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Jun 16, 2011
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I cut my teeth on Red Book, then moved into 2nd Edition and did a bit in 3rd Edition, though I much preferred the EverQuest d20 over D&D, as a good number of cool things were added in (namely the canning of bloody asinine spell slots). I have only played one game of 4th, and found it pretty cool (for that one game, I couldn't say how it would play out over the long term). I do however play in a weekly Pathfinder game, and enjoy it (but only as a player).

However, my biggest beef with 3.5 and its variants, including Pathfinder, is how needlessly complex it is, and higher level fights just seem to turn into hit points grinds where all you do is try to wear down your foe's hit point totals before they just suddenly fall over dead since they actually ever weaken from wounding. Hit locations are meaningless and non-existent, and the chart for Attacks of Opportunities is practically an entire page! Combat, which what D&D and the variants surround themselves around, is quite unfriendly to new people who don't know all the tricks and maneuvers - like cast your touch combat spell first then step into combat, rather than step into combat and cast your spell... because for some reason casting a COMBAT spell provokes an AoO.

Personally, I like the Pathfinder system despite its over-complexity, but I would never run it as a GM. For people just getting into gaming, I'd suggest Savage Worlds, it is quick, easy, and generic - one system for any genre, though it does have some balance issues and can be easily broken by knowledgeable players, nor is it a good choice for grit or realism.

However, my personal favourite, and the only game system I will run on a consistent basis is GURPS 4e (3e was badly broken). Again, generic and usable with any genre - I run 3 games a week, one is sci-fi space opera, the other low to mid fantasy, and the last a modern world sorcery game. Not to mention combat is very fast, and no character has to worry about more than 2 modifiers when making an attack.
 

Corjha

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Mar 14, 2008
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4th edition is a stable, sterile system with equality amongst classes, but there's seams in the game, walls that seem quite tangible to 3.5 players. 3.5 has balance issues but you can do hilarious things with it like enchanting a battering ram so you can ride it through the air at 18m/s, but it's tough to DM because calculating XP is highly unintuitive.
 

Pinky's Brain

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Mar 2, 2011
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ravenshrike said:
Pathfinder, AKA 3.75, is set up so the weaker classes in it are around the level of the Bo9S classes from 3.5.
Damage is a very poor replacement for mobility, defence and battlefield control.

Pathfinder is very very retro in class design for the most part ... and unfortunately also in item design. That they didn't follow in the footsteps of Bo9S is perfectly understandable, that they didn't follow in the footsteps of the Magic Item Compendium is outrageous.
 

Con Carne

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Nov 12, 2009
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4.0 essentially is WoW on paper. The best way to give your players a feel for 4.0 is to have them play DDO.

3.5 is a good system, but honestly, I have come to prefer Pathfinder. It's (3.5 v.2.0) they took 3.5 and refined it even more. 3.5 and Pathfinder are even compatible after making a couple of minor tweaks here and there.

OT: 4.0 is a system that is meant to make you feel like a badass hero from the get go.
3.5 is aimed at the players who want to feel like an average (or slightly above average) character and have them make their way through the world and its hardships.
 

Bohemian Waltz

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Oct 3, 2010
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Ultra_Caboose said:
I've actually used 3.0 Oriental Adventures characters in Pathfinder and it's not caused any trouble.
Really? because Iaijutsu focus(OA) + gnomish quick-razor(RoS) + sneak-attack heavy character. Is cheesy without any further optimization. Eggshell grenades are pretty crazy too.
 

GlorySeeker

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Oct 6, 2010
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Ive played every edition. Including first. I love DnD, 3.5, is by far my favorite, but Currently were Im participating in a 4th ed game. Every other week, I Dm a 3rd ed game. 4th ed to me, is fun. It shines and more than excels at combat. 4th is a little restrictive, and thats being nice, but the best way to compare it, is to play it.
 

Coop83

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Mar 20, 2010
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Sober Thal said:
I gave up on D&D many many years ago... it's all about the White Wolf now, d10's FTW.

From what I hear, 4.0 is crap.
What sort of White Wolf games do you play? The new World of Darkness stuff is alright, though give me Exalted any day!

Regarding what you've heard about D&D 4.0, I'd suggest you play it yourself, before making your decision. Personally, I didn't like it, much preferring Pathfinder, which has a few rule tweaks on the system and seems to make things more balanced. It's not as major a shift as moving from 2nd to 3rd edition, with the abolition of THAC0, for example, but these changes make all the difference.

At the end of the day, the rules are merely a vessel for your role playing experience, as are the dice you roll to determine the outcome. What matters, when you get right down to it is the Role Playing and the story that is told.
 

Ultra_Caboose

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Aug 25, 2008
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Bohemian Waltz said:
Ultra_Caboose said:
I've actually used 3.0 Oriental Adventures characters in Pathfinder and it's not caused any trouble.
Really? because Iaijutsu focus(OA) + gnomish quick-razor(RoS) + sneak-attack heavy character. Is cheesy without any further optimization. Eggshell grenades are pretty crazy too.
I've never tried that combo. I've only played a human samurai. Come to think of it, I don't think I've ever played a gnome. Either way, my character worked just fine, no overpowered abilities or anything.
 

Pumpkin_Eater

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Mar 17, 2009
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4e is a lot simpler. A lot of rules and mechanics have been cleaned up, but there are much fewer customization options. Good for newbs. Pathfinder is essentially a more balanced, somewhat polished 3.5 (I'm in my first PF campaign right now). PF also rewards you for committing to your base class much more than either D&D version.