Dad Alters Donkey Kong for His Daughter - With Pauline as the Hero

[Epona]

This has nothing to do with feminism at all, the little girl wanted to imagine herself in the game so he made that possible. It was a nice thing to do and we don't need it ruined by feminist bashing or by using it as another ''games are sexist'' thing. This thread is going to degrade fast.

Actually it does have to do with feminism.

It shows how easy it is to make the feminists (like me) happy.

Seriously, this is it. Just make an option to switch the sprites and you have solved all of our problems with that game. It is just that easy.

It's also unreasonable

Oh No! My son has to play Heart of the Swarm as Kerrigan! Starcraft II, Blizzard and Activision are sexist!

...or is it only sexist when it happens to females?

 

[MagunBFP]

If the athiest saved someones life, which doesn't actually have anything to do with religion, would the pope still be entitled to say "yay God"?

What did feminism actually do that was a part of this? For the record I am specifically asking for some direct involvment not along the lines of "feminism is out there and making things better for women so without it existing this couldn't have happened"

What twisted logic did you use to derive "good thing" - "feminism" = "perception that feminism is the devil"? Just you weren't apart of it doesn't say negative things about you. What does say negative things is the desperation you seem to be showing by saying that "feminism has to be able to claim this or you'll hate us"

You'll find that female characters in videogames have a lot to do with feminism- at least as far as feminism in gaming goes. I do not find that analogy accurate in the slightest.

You'll also find that the Pope believes that God has alot to do with people that doesn't mean religion wins every time a life is saved, so the analogy is actually more accurate then you might have thought.

Also, you completely missed the point of what I'm saying. I never claimed that feminism did anything (I readily acknowledged that the man's actions had nothing to do with feminism whatsoever), what I claimed was that this is a positive example of how feminism can improve the gaming industry without harming anybody. If a feminist did something like this for another game, we would have improved diversity in videogames without harming anybody. That's the entire point of what an example is, taking an instance or event and saying "see, we can do something like this".

So we're agreed Feminism had nothing to do with what Mike did for his daughter. Nothing whatsoever. We also agree that this is an example of something Feminism could and should do. To claim it as a victory for Feminism though? Feminism did nothing to contribute to it at all, aspire to doing something like this by all means but don't try to say it was in the name of women and claim it as yours.

If a feminist did something like that it would be equally cool, and using this as an example of what you could do is fine, but claiming it and using it as an example are two different things

"this is a great moment for feminism"

...a victory for feminism...

So yes its something for Feminism to think about gettnig done, no its not a victory for Feminism because it wasn't done for you, or in your name, or even with your help

As for the last paragraph, you are vastly overreaching with your tortuous rationale. Nobody said that "feminism has to claim this or you'll hate us." What was said was that this would be a great example of how feminism can improve the gaming industry without harming anybody. That's all.

Yeah you kinda did...

Saying "no no guys, this awesome feminist thing has nothing to do with feminism! the person who did this wasn't a feminist! in fact, they never had a feminist thought in their heads! they just did it for X reason, I swear!" perpetuates the notion that feminism is always bad, always the enemy, and incompatible with things we can all sympathise with, like good parenting or love for your children.

Disassociating positive things like this one from feminism only serves to further the narrative that feminism is evil and out to destroy all you love.

 

[Darken12]

You'll also find that the Pope believes that God has alot to do with people that doesn't mean religion wins every time a life is saved, so the analogy is actually more accurate then you might have thought.

Nope. You will never convince me that something that is directly related to feminism in gaming is as vague and unrelated as the pope going 'yay god' when a random life is saved. Just nope. No sell. Not gonna dignify that travesty of an analogy with an inch of believability.

So we're agreed Feminism had nothing to do with what Mike did for his daughter. Nothing whatsoever. We also agree that this is an example of something Feminism could and should do. To claim it as a victory for Feminism though? Feminism did nothing to contribute to it at all, aspire to doing something like this by all means but don't try to say it was in the name of women and claim it as yours.

If a feminist did something like that it would be equally cool, and using this as an example of what you could do is fine, but claiming it and using it as an example are two different things

[...]

So yes its something for Feminism to think about gettnig done, no its not a victory for Feminism because it wasn't done for you, or in your name, or even with your help

More female characters in gaming is a victory for feminism, regardless of the reasoning behind it. This case might be a very tiny victory, but it's a victory nonetheless, because we're seeing something we strive towards.

Yeah you kinda did...

That is completely separate from the discussion of whether that's a victory for feminism or not. That is a personal critique I am making of the gamer community in general, more precisely of an attitude I often see in cases like this one.

 

[Bara_no_Hime]

It's also unreasonable

Oh No! My son has to play Heart of the Swarm as Kerrigan! Starcraft II, Blizzard and Activision are sexist!

...or is it only sexist when it happens to females?

Once again, if you'd read any of my other comments in this thread, you'd know that I was only speaking about Retro games currently being released as Apps.

There are a lot of Damsel in Distress based games among retro titles, like Pauline in Donkey Kong. One very simple way to avoid a tidal wave of (unintentionally) sexist games is to just make which sprite you play as (and which one gets kidnapped) optional to each player, like this Dad did. That way both genders are shown to be capable of being the rescuer.

However, as to your final question there - yes, it is only sexist when it happens to females. Why? Because 95% of all games have a male protagonist. So switching a few to women is fixing an unbalanced scale, not attacking men. But I'm not even suggesting that, because in modern games the plot often relies more heavily on the gender of the main character due to voice acting and so forth. Dishonored wouldn't have worked with a female protagonist, for instance, for reasons I can't discuss due to spoilers for late game reveals.

Which is why I only said that this would be a good fix for all those re-released retro titles.

 

[Epona]

It's also unreasonable

Oh No! My son has to play Heart of the Swarm as Kerrigan! Starcraft II, Blizzard and Activision are sexist!

...or is it only sexist when it happens to females?

However, as to your final question there - yes, it is only sexist when it happens to females.

Here is the problem with feminists. You believe sexism only goes one way. It's just as bad as saying that only white people can be racist.

 

[charge52]

But the entire games media does not do that, not at all in fact. Many games have female leads or main characters such as . . . the final fantasy series, ghost in the shell, buffy (it had games), metroid, mirrors edge, mass effect, oni, perferct dark, silent hill, xena (had a game), streets of rage, golden axe, resident evil, portal, alice and gears of war to name a few.

Once again, I'm only addressing Retro games here. The games currently being revived and ported to portable devices of various sorts in App form. Games like Donkey Kong.

None of the games you listed - good games, mind - are retro games.

I would just like to point out that 4 of the games mentioned are retro games, and 5 others could be considered retro depending on your personal age for retro. Hell, if we count all the retro final fantasy and golden axe games , not just as 1, then 11 of the games listed are retro(only counting the three main golden axe games). If you are going to dismiss his examples, at least do some research so you know if your reason for dismissing them is blatantly wrong.

 

[Phasmal]

It's also unreasonable

Oh No! My son has to play Heart of the Swarm as Kerrigan! Starcraft II, Blizzard and Activision are sexist!

...or is it only sexist when it happens to females?

However, as to your final question there - yes, it is only sexist when it happens to females.

Here is the problem with feminists. You believe sexism only goes one way. It's just as bad as saying that only white people can be racist.

Here's the problem with you.
Quotemining.

THIS context is sexist when it happens to women because they are already underrepresented.
Nobody said sexism can't happen to men.

 

[WindKnight]

It's also unreasonable

Oh No! My son has to play Heart of the Swarm as Kerrigan! Starcraft II, Blizzard and Activision are sexist!

...or is it only sexist when it happens to females?

However, as to your final question there - yes, it is only sexist when it happens to females.

Here is the problem with feminists. You believe sexism only goes one way. It's just as bad as saying that only white people can be racist.

nice job cutting out the pertinent parts of her post and focusing on the bit you can wave as a banner of 'the wimmins are oppressing us! look! they admit it! Feel sorry for us mans, we're being made to share things we don't want to!'

 

[Lionsfan]

Prepare for full retaliation for this tremendous insult: http://www.p4rgaming.com/?p=1515

Prepare for full retaliation for this tremendous insult: http://www.p4rgaming.com/?p=1515

Umm okay...hold up. I can't even find this "Mr.Pac-Men" group online at all. Not even a link to his profile or site and even going through 20 pages of google search I can't find anything about him at all.

Something is kinda fishy here. Not even a link to the actual altered game or even a video. Sorry but I'm staying skeptic because there really is a lack of sources and more based on just "believe me, I got a good face".

Defskyoen, I don't know if you're being facetious or not, but Tenmar....come on.

You don't even have to look up "Mr. Pac-Men", just look at other articles on that website.

"Gabe Newell Confirms Half-Life 3 No Longer a Game, Now a Movie Directed by JJ Abrams [http://www.p4rgaming.com/?p=1224]"

or

"Square Enix Forces All Staff to Play Super Mario RPG in Order to Learn How to Make Good RPGs Again [http://www.p4rgaming.com/?p=1507]"

or

"EA Hires Hundreds of Chinese Spammers to Post Positively About SimCity?s Always Online Requirement [http://www.p4rgaming.com/?p=1473]"

 

[Epona]

It's also unreasonable

Oh No! My son has to play Heart of the Swarm as Kerrigan! Starcraft II, Blizzard and Activision are sexist!

...or is it only sexist when it happens to females?

However, as to your final question there - yes, it is only sexist when it happens to females.

Here is the problem with feminists. You believe sexism only goes one way. It's just as bad as saying that only white people can be racist.

Here's the problem with you.
Quotemining.

THIS context is sexist when it happens to women because they are already underrepresented.
Nobody said sexism can't happen to men.

Been listening to feminist bias for years. It is every case where feminists believe sexism can't happen to men. For example, can you tell me where men are underrepresented and can you then show me where feminists have fought for equality?

 

[Phasmal]

It's also unreasonable

Oh No! My son has to play Heart of the Swarm as Kerrigan! Starcraft II, Blizzard and Activision are sexist!

...or is it only sexist when it happens to females?

However, as to your final question there - yes, it is only sexist when it happens to females.

Here is the problem with feminists. You believe sexism only goes one way. It's just as bad as saying that only white people can be racist.

Here's the problem with you.
Quotemining.

THIS context is sexist when it happens to women because they are already underrepresented.
Nobody said sexism can't happen to men.

Been listening to feminist bias for years. It is every case where feminists believe sexism can't happen to men. For example, can you tell me where men are underrepresented and can you then show me where feminists have fought for equality?

I remembered speaking with you before, actually, and finding you rather reality-proof, so pardon me for not wasting much time here.
Yep. My college made a huge push to encourage men to take childcare courses, I, as a feminist, am completely for that and worked with many competent male childcare workers.
But I guess I didn't start the initiative myself, other people did, people who want equality. Feminists. And yeah yeah `oh no feminists just look out for wimminz`
Don't waste my time.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Been listening to feminist bias for years. It is every case where feminists believe sexism can't happen to men. Can you tell me where men are underrepresented and can you then show me where feminists have fought for equality?

You are quite capable of uncovering that information for yourself. It's not the job of strangers on the internet to batter through your obvious confirmation bias when it comes to feminism.

 

[Epona]

It's also unreasonable

Oh No! My son has to play Heart of the Swarm as Kerrigan! Starcraft II, Blizzard and Activision are sexist!

...or is it only sexist when it happens to females?

However, as to your final question there - yes, it is only sexist when it happens to females.

Here is the problem with feminists. You believe sexism only goes one way. It's just as bad as saying that only white people can be racist.

Here's the problem with you.
Quotemining.

THIS context is sexist when it happens to women because they are already underrepresented.
Nobody said sexism can't happen to men.

Been listening to feminist bias for years. It is every case where feminists believe sexism can't happen to men. For example, can you tell me where men are underrepresented and can you then show me where feminists have fought for equality?

I remembered speaking with you before, actually, and finding you rather reality-proof, so pardon me for not wasting much time here.
Yep. My college made a huge push to encourage men to take childcare courses, I, as a feminist, am completely for that and worked with many competent male childcare workers.
But I guess I didn't start the initiative myself, other people did, people who want equality. Feminists. And yeah yeah `oh no feminists just look out for wimminz`
Don't waste my time.

Well I asked you to show me, not give some anecdotal evidence about a college and yourself. Have we ever seen feminists fight the family courts over the clear bias in custody cases? Have we ever seen the feminists fight for a Violence against Everyone Act or fight against the Violence against Women Act because it's discriminatory? Have we ever seen feminists fight for Title IX for men now that men are underrepresented in college?

Feminists aren't about equality at all because they are only interested in helping women. You can't claim to be fighting for equality when you only fight for one side. I have no problem with a cause named "Feminism" fighting only for women but I do have a problem when you claim you are fighting for equality.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

now we have people suggesting that playing video games makes a person sexist.

Nobody has ever said that. Most if not all of the feminist posts I have seen come from women who both play and enjoy video games. Surely they would be calling themselves sexist. All that's wanted is for video games to be inclusive. I don't understand this reasoning discussing possibly sexist content in a videogame does NOT equate to calling all gamers sexist.

As for Pauline I think it's great. I love the bloomers as she tops the ladder. This man must love his daughter very much.

 

[Epona]

now we have people suggesting that playing video games makes a person sexist.

Nobody has ever said that. Most if not all of the feminist posts I have seen come from women who both play and enjoy video games. Surely they would be calling themselves sexist. All that's wanted is for video games to be inclusive. I don't understand this reasoning discussing possibly sexist content in a videogame does NOT equate to calling all gamers sexist.

As for Pauline I think it's great. I love the bloomers as she tops the ladder. This man must love his daughter very much.

If I changed Kerrigan into a man, would I receive the same praise?

 

[Bara_no_Hime]

Here is the problem with feminists. You believe sexism only goes one way. It's just as bad as saying that only white people can be racist.

And I love how you only responded to one line, taken out of context, without support. Who are you, Fox News?

Never mind. I see what you're doing. Goodbye.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

now we have people suggesting that playing video games makes a person sexist.

Nobody has ever said that. Most if not all of the feminist posts I have seen come from women who both play and enjoy video games. Surely they would be calling themselves sexist. All that's wanted is for video games to be inclusive. I don't understand this reasoning discussing possibly sexist content in a videogame does NOT equate to calling all gamers sexist.

As for Pauline I think it's great. I love the bloomers as she tops the ladder. This man must love his daughter very much.

If I changed Kerrigan into a man, would I receive the same praise?

I don't think anyone would care dude he would just be another male protagonist/antagonist in a sea of male protagonists/antagonists.

Look at that outrage that occurred when Lara Croft turned into Nathan Drake. Oh wait there wasn't one.

 

[Phasmal]

Well I asked you to show me, not give some anecdotal evidence about a college and yourself. Have we ever seen feminists fight the family courts over the clear bias in custody cases? Have we ever seen the feminists fight for a Violence against Everyone Act or fight against the Violence against Women Act because it's discriminatory? Have we ever seen feminists fight for Title IX for men now that men are underrepresented in college?

Feminists aren't about equality at all because they are only interested in helping women. You can't claim to be fighting for equality when you only fight for one side. I have no problem with a cause named "Feminism" fighting only for women but I do have a problem when you claim you are fighting for equality.

Dude, whatever your problems with feminism, they are your problems.
You say I can't say I am fighting for equality and call myself a feminist, I quite clearly can.
Your biases are quite clearly showing. I can see we will never agree.
You can feel free to dance around and feel like you've won.

 

[Epona]

Well I asked you to show me, not give some anecdotal evidence about a college and yourself. Have we ever seen feminists fight the family courts over the clear bias in custody cases? Have we ever seen the feminists fight for a Violence against Everyone Act or fight against the Violence against Women Act because it's discriminatory? Have we ever seen feminists fight for Title IX for men now that men are underrepresented in college?

Feminists aren't about equality at all because they are only interested in helping women. You can't claim to be fighting for equality when you only fight for one side. I have no problem with a cause named "Feminism" fighting only for women but I do have a problem when you claim you are fighting for equality.

Dude, whatever your problems with feminism, they are your problems.
You say I can't say I am fighting for equality and call myself a feminist, I quite clearly can.
Your biases are quite clearly showing. I can see we will never agree.
You can feel free to dance around and feel like you've won.

If you can't see the logic in "fighting for only one side =/= fighting for equality" then you are a true feminist. Congratulations.

My biases are as clear as yours are but unlike you, I am not trying to shut down discussion. I noticed that you didn't respond to my examples?

 

[Bara_no_Hime]

But the entire games media does not do that, not at all in fact. Many games have female leads or main characters such as . . . the final fantasy series, ghost in the shell, buffy (it had games), metroid, mirrors edge, mass effect, oni, perferct dark, silent hill, xena (had a game), streets of rage, golden axe, resident evil, portal, alice and gears of war to name a few.

Once again, I'm only addressing Retro games here. The games currently being revived and ported to portable devices of various sorts in App form. Games like Donkey Kong.

None of the games you listed - good games, mind - are retro games.

I would just like to point out that 4 of the games mentioned are retro games, and 5 others could be considered retro depending on your personal age for retro. Hell, if we count all the retro final fantasy and golden axe games , not just as 1, then 11 of the games listed are retro(only counting the three main golden axe games).

First off, it depends on what you mean by retro games. I was talking pre-NES games, like Donkey Kong. None of those are Atari games, except maybe golden axe, and most people usually think of the remakes rather than the original.

Secondly, Final Fantasy and Metroid (both NES games, mind, see above) are usually thought of as franchises. Most people haven't played FF1 - they started at maybe FF6. To be honest, most started higher and went backwards. The same goes for Metroid. Also, are either of these being released as Apps? Which, again, is the context of what I've been talking about.

Thirdly, again with Final Fantasy, there isn't a female lead until FF5. FF6 is the one known for having a female lead. Again, unless they're releasing one of the SNES titles as an App for mobile devices, then they aren't the class of retro titles I'm talking about.

Fourth... I honestly have no idea about Streets of Rage. You may have gotten me on that one if it is an Atari title being re-purposed as a mobile device App. If it's an NES title (or later) and it isn't being used as such, then the above applies - I honestly have no idea.