Dad Blames Microsoft for Son's Xbox Live Spending Spree

[MasochisticAvenger]

I honestly can't blame the dad too much on this one, because I know some people just don't give a shit about games. He probably just set up the system so that his son could play it and be out of his hair. It's irresponsible, no doubt, but I see it as one of those things that you just might not have foreseen as a possibility. As gamers, it's easy to forget that fact because we are so immersed in these systems.

Now the kid on the other hand, is a bastard. There is no doubt in my mind that a 12 year old knows what he's doing with his dad's money. I bet he just wanted to do it while he could get away with it and overestimated his dad's vigilance of his bank account.

I also wouldn't mind pointing a little bit of blame at MS for making their system too easy to buy stuff on, and making child accounts useless. As I understand them, they are practically a Silver subscription with a fee. That doesn't mitigate what the kid did, but it would be nice if their systems were just a bit more consumer friendly. This kind of abuse is practically encouraged with the current system in place.

Sorry, but if you're not going to take the time to learn how something you're giving your kid works, you really have no one to blame but yourself when things start to go wrong. You can't really turn around and start blaming other people since you were unaware of what might happen. Being a gamer has nothing to do with it: you learn as much as you can about what you're using before you use it.

So it's Microsoft's fault because the system is too easy to use? Should online distributors start putting millions of passwords and biometrics just to stop the few idiots who do stuff like this? As I said in an earlier post, put as many safeguards as you like, people will still do stuff like this and ***** about how the system didn't ask if they were really really really really sure.

Far easier said that done. Try juggling a career, parenting, and maintaining a household and then tell me how much time and energy you have left to figure out how your kids toys work. Once you know they aren't going to swallow them, there isn't much need to worry. The kid was 12 fucking years old. You can't tell me you know one single damn kid that doesn't know the meaning of money at that age. If he really didn't, then yes, the parents are more to blame than I'm suggesting. But I'm certain the kid was just being a dick.

And read my post again, I'm not saying MS and every company ever should fix their systems to prevent this. Strawman much?

It's not like the kid is handing over physical money; he is just clicking a button on the screen. It's not so unreasonable to assume he wasn't aware actual money was being used. It's easy to look at it as an adult and think "well of course actual money is used" but it's a little different when you were a kid. Did you know everything you know now when you were twelve years old?

I'm not sure that is definitely the case, but the blame has to fall on the parents for allowing it to happen. If the kid did it on purpose, he needs to be punished, but the parents allowed this to go on for so long. I'm sorry, but if you can't do something as basic as checking your bank statements once in a while you really have no right to complain. This isn't like the kid spent five dollars, the day noticed and complained to Microsoft. It's a pretty big oversight on the father's part.

I have reread your post. You said Microsoft's system mad purchasing too easy. I replied asking if you were suggesting companies should make things harder to purchase. At what point do you believe companies have "done enough" to prevent unwanted purchases? I'm not really sure how that is a Strawman argument.

 

[Steve Waltz]

True, that's why we should implement a Parent Aptitude Test (I call him Pat, for short) that would use a series of hypothetical situations and financial/employment analysis to determine whether or not someone is fit to be a parent.

For example:
You are at the supermarket with your six year old kid. He is screaming the roof down, knocking shit off the shelf and generally being an insufferable little dicksplash. Do you...
A)Start screaming back at him to 'fucking behave yourself, you little prick.'
B)Calmly pull him to one side and tell him this kind of behaviour is unacceptable.
C)Completely ignore him and continue deciding what brand of cheap liquor you want to get shit-faced on this evening.

D) None of the above.

Take him/her outside of the store and into the car. Strap the child in the back seat, get in the driver's seat and just silently sit. The kid will scream and wail for a while still, but eventually calm down and start to think. *Then* it'll probably safe to go back into the store and go back to shopping. It would be a nice silent session of pouting from the child until you're back home.

B is not a correct answer either. In fact, C *is* a little bit closer to better parenting.You don't calm down a child in the middle of a tantrum by talking to them. Kids don't listen when in the middle of a tantrum. Won't stop unless they get what they want, or if they're ignored long enough. There lies the problem with being a public tantrum is that ignoring the child in public is rude. Beside that, a six year old child throwing tantrums? That's a sign of a spoiled child that *needs* scolding otherwise it'll never stop. He/she throws tantrums at that age because he knows he can get away with it. Six years old is *way* too old for tantrums. Punishing is the most sensible way to stop that kind of behaviour at that age.

 

[Yosato]

What bullshit. 12 years old and he didn't realise he was paying real money? Yeah right, can't believe the dad actually fell for that. How the hell do you spend a grand on CoD and Fifa anyway?

 

[Coolshark]

Never let your kid know the credit/debit number. Ever. You enter that crap yourself.

 

[unstabLized]

In my opinion, completely the parents fault. Microsoft shouldn't give back a single dime. Also,i agree with The Plunk. What 12 year old doesn't understand the symbol of money? He's not gonna get a cent back. If he was so concerned about this, he would've been more careful. Microsoft doesn't need a verification or password or whatever. They WANT the money, and if you're stupid enough to somehow spend that money "accidentally", then that's your fault and yours only.

 

[rob_simple]

True, that's why we should implement a Parent Aptitude Test (I call him Pat, for short) that would use a series of hypothetical situations and financial/employment analysis to determine whether or not someone is fit to be a parent.

For example:
You are at the supermarket with your six year old kid. He is screaming the roof down, knocking shit off the shelf and generally being an insufferable little dicksplash. Do you...
A)Start screaming back at him to 'fucking behave yourself, you little prick.'
B)Calmly pull him to one side and tell him this kind of behaviour is unacceptable.
C)Completely ignore him and continue deciding what brand of cheap liquor you want to get shit-faced on this evening.

D) None of the above.

Take him/her outside of the store and into the car. Strap the child in the back seat, get in the driver's seat and just silently sit. The kid will scream and wail for a while still, but eventually calm down and start to think. *Then* it'll probably safe to go back into the store and go back to shopping. It would be a nice silent session of pouting from the child until you're back home.

B is not a correct answer either. In fact, C *is* a little bit closer to better parenting.You don't calm down a child in the middle of a tantrum by talking to them. Kids don't listen when in the middle of a tantrum. Won't stop unless they get what they want, or if they're ignored long enough. There lies the problem with being a public tantrum is that ignoring the child in public is rude. Beside that, a six year old child throwing tantrums? That's a sign of a spoiled child that *needs* scolding otherwise it'll never stop. He/she throws tantrums at that age because he knows he can get away with it. Six years old is *way* too old for tantrums. Punishing is the most sensible way to stop that kind of behaviour at that age.

Have you seen a lot of kids, nowadays? It's not uncommon for some of them to throw tantrums right up until the age of about 18.

But, as for the rest of your post, point taken. I was merely trying to illustrate the point that there really should be some criteria set in place to decide if you are fit to raise a child. After all, you need a license to drive a car, and a poorly raised kid can grow up to do a lot more damage than a car.

 

[easternflame]

What bothers me I guess is that be obviously wasn't paying attention to his kid for 6 months.

Not only that, he wasn't paying attention to his bills for six months. That shows a total lack of responsability on his part. Which only goes further to sustain my point. The father was not a responsible man.

I agree, I just don't want people saying it's because his kid was playing CoD. There are far better reasons is all.

No, I played COD when I was twelve too.

 

[Negatempest]

Okay, okay. I have just one question that seems to be brought up a lot in this thread.

Uhem, What the **** does playing a violent video game have to do with the father being charged a good grand for DLC, or Microsoft Points to be more accurate.


The thread discussion is about the son spending money that was not his, very easily, on his Xbox live account. Yes, a "parental" system is in place, but it is something you actually have to work at to make sure it works. I have looked at the settings and the choices are so....vague. Are you locked out completely from Marketplace or are you just not allowed to make a purchase?

Though the biggest issue is this. It SHOULD be an option to either keep your credit card number or always add in a new number each purchase. And IF your credit card is saved, but you want to remove it you have to go to customer support and give your personal information of course. THAN Microsoft allows you to remove your credit card information. So now you have to go into your own account, again maybe, to finally remove your credit card number.

It is more of a hassle to remove your card number than it is to purchase DLC.

 

[masticina]

$1150

Wow

But yes simply signing up to a XBL account doesn't makes it save. In its most basic form it is ripe for abuse.

Of course with this kid playing 18+ games [even if 16+ would suffice] one thing is obvious. The father didn't check what was going on. And like anything that you don't check.. it can go horrible wrong.

So $1150, that is allot of DLC..

I don't expect that he gets his money or any money.. after all legally their contracts probably are 100% tight. It would cost allot of money and time to undo these events.. and he did sign the nobody read these TOS.

 

[masticina]

Just give him back the money. Clearly he hadn't authorized the purchases.

THAT is questionable

By Proxy [him not setting up a Kid account] he might have.

The Xbox 360 allows to set up kid accounts that also means they cannot buy stuff in the shop. So Microsoft already offers the methods needed.

Him not setting them and allowing the kid to use an Grown Up account.. well.. would point to being HIS fault.

I am sure that in the TOS stands enough warning about these things. And that legally all is night and tight set up so Microsoft doesn't has to pay. The only way to overrule that would be if a Local State law would find such parts of the contracts as unenforceable.

So the question is, is there any local state law that allows this parent to undo the purchases done by the child. In most states there should.. BUT what are the exceptions to this law..and that is where in court things can go wrong.

In the end.. his chances in court are kinda slim. It depends on just how many rights he could give away by signing the TOS.

I know that in europe you cannot sign over your soul for instance. You can sign a TOS that says you sold your soul but.. they can't.. there are limits to what can be done in contracts.

And there are those cases where a Non Compete part of a Contract is voided by the court because.. if you are learning to do a job then you expect a job in that. A Non Compete contract hence can be voided.

 

[GamingAwesome1]

Somehow, I doubt there's 1k worth of CoD and Fifa DLC.

And yes, it truly does state in plain text precisely how much money each bundle of points is worth when you buy them and if it's Games On Demand then it's an outright cash value. The kid has zero excuse here, since you need to buy the points which have a blatantly obvious cash value right next to them when you purchase them you'd have to be a total idiot to make that mistake.

So here we are! Nice going, you pair of massive twats. Seriously, you never thought to check your bank statement over a six month period to possibly see that money's been coming out courtesy of Xbox Live and you could've nipped this in the bud while the loss was a few quid rather than a thousand sodding dollars?

I honestly hope Microsoft doesn't give them a cent back, that is some true retardation going on from both parties. Even when I was twelve I wasn't this fucking dense.

 

[TAdamson]

I'm going to actually take the father's side here.

It's not unreasonable to expect a password lock on your credit card to be opt out rather than opt in.

All these childless teenagers and twenty something shouting "bad parenting" are just indulging in the reflexive usual squawking in defence of their hobby.

He's certainly guilty of carelessness but it's not like Microsoft can't just reset that account and offer at least a partial refund. That would be sensible customer service/PR on their part.

If the Father had set the Xbox up properly it would have locked purchases. There is little excuse for failing to set the Xbox up properly either. When you first turn the brand new console on it leads you step by step through all of that, it also happens to be in moronese so anyone can understand it.

The only reason for not having set up right is not being arsed and skipping it.

I'm not saying that he's not an idiot. I'm saying it's not unreasonable for you to expect that your gaming device not keep your credit card open for spending over the device.

 

[I.Muir]

How do you spend that much money on a cod game? I just don't get it but yeah online spending can be like opening a floodgate.

Anyho the kids father is a fool

 

[Drejer43]

I think this is a case where both sides are equally idiotic

 

[aba1]

I really hate that they do this as well they stole 60 dollars from me with that crap. That has more to do with them automatically charging me for things without my consent however.

 

[Charli]

You gave your 12 year old kid your credit card.

Discussion. Fucking. OVER.

 

[karcentric]

As usual, completely the parents fault.

Also the kid is retarded for thinking it didn't actually cost money despite the system telling him it did. I know I was fairly dumb at 12, but certainly not to that extent.

Agreed, I'd never let my credit card out of my wallet, but since I know what I'm like with buying things I don't have one.

 

[MarsProbe]

I seem to recall having a similar post like this a while back, detailing some parents gripe about how their kid was able to spend money on XBL, where the source was also either the Daily Mail or some other emergency toilet paper substitute.

Also, it says the fathers credit card was being used, expect that when he went to withdraw money from his ATM he had insufficient funds. Well, in that case, he must have either just paid his credit card bill or the card was actually the one linked to his bank account. So the question is, did he not check his bank account regularly or notice all the e-mail notifications he was getting from Microsoft about MS Point purchases?

 

[Tomster595]

If there was no warning or checkbox letting him know that the credit card info would be stored for future use he might have some legal footing. Usually with websites or Steam when you put in a credit card it asks you if you want it to save your info. If it didn't ask, maybe he has a case.

 

[EHKOS]

This happened before. Like twice. The guy prolly just wanted free shit, and then was going to blame his kid.