"Dark" is a Loose Term These Days...

[endtherapture]

Mass Effect and Dragon Age aren't dark because you can always get the best outcome.

Like the boy at the castle in Dragon Age - you can kill him...sacrifice his mother to save him, or just wait and let the Mages fix everything.

Same with Mass Effect - a tough decision - Quarians or Geth? Oh doesn't matter, you can save them both!!

Dragon Age is set in a dark world with loads of racism, rape, dark rituals, war, death, genocide, betrayal etc. but it's just not presented well in the game because you can get a "perfect" outcome.

Bioware needs to grow some balls and give you proper difficult decisions, like in The Witcher 2- There's no perfect or optimal playthrough in The Witcher 2, the R rating allows them to show all the dark realities of the world, and the decisions are meaningful and difficult and there are multiple ways of justifying every playthrough you do - there is no "good" or "bad" playthrough unlike in Bioware games.

 

[dragonswarrior]

Im currently reading a book series that is basically 40k but serious. And done well. And with Muslims. And more insects.

When games can pull that shit off they will be "dark". Until then? Eh. It's pretty standard. Compared to a lot of the books out there that I like to read (Glen Cook, Steven Erikson, and George Martin etc.) most games that style themselves as "dark" are pretty tame.

Despite my like of DA:O and Mass Effect, I have to agree with the people who don't think they are dark. They aren't dark. Are they serious and realistic within their stories? Yes I think so. But they certainly aren't dark.

Doesn't stop them from being awesome though.

 

[Emiscary]

There's a difference between Dark (a spin on a realistic, but nontheless kinda "everyone's screwed" setting) and Gothic setting. Dark usually means things that are pretty fucked up, but is down to earth in presentation so that it still has an effect on you. Gothic is just a reversed "cartoonish" style, (take for example Tim Burton or Diablo), those are not trying to be realistic in the slightest, but rather put an aestethic feel to it.

What's bad is that many games seem to think that "dark" just means saying fuck and showing people having sex and getting killed (Mass Effect isn't dark in the slightest, people have sex with their underwear on for christs sake!), Mortal Kombat isn't dark, all the blood and gore is just hyped up * 10000 which means that nothing of it has any weight whatsoever. And, dare I say it, The Witcher is also trying too hard, with people saying fuck in every sentence and being generally unpleasant. The humour in there feels sort of out of place and weird, don't get me wrong, some parts is quite hilarious, but it really doesn't fit in.

I'm with you on the Witcher. Don't get me wrong, I like the games and I think they're doing alot of things well- but the humour/dialogue are off at times. With the former being too campy and the latter being too crass.

And I'll concede that the rhyming intro the Brood Mother boss fight *was* done fairly well. But it was still ultimately just buildup to a fairly standard boss fight. And there was never any followup to the encounter. The insane corrupted lady walks on stage, introduces the boss monster, bows and then walks off.

 

[Zipa]

Might just be my imagination, but can anyone here name a recently released, self described "dark" game that lived up to that description? Because near as I can tell modern publishers haven't amended their definition of what constitutes a "dark" or "mature" game since the hay days of Mortal Kombat (dark = blood). Not even gore. Just blood. For a game to be gory you'd have to be able to get a clear look at the damage that's being done and you'd need the bodies of your enemies to react realistically. But that's not the case- the look of an injured character hasn't changed much in the last decade. (IE: a mannequin with a pressurized ketchup hose taped to it.)

Here's a perfect example- Dragon Age: Origins

So by any estimation, this was a standard fantasy game. Beat for beat. A hero rises from obscurity, unites the land, slays a mighty dragon, roll credits. And yet every pitch I heard before it's release described it as "dark". What makes it so "dark"? Hell if I know, but I do know I found myself coated in blood for about 45 seconds after every fight.

And then just recently I had the pleasure of seeing Diablo 3's ending in its entirety. And... it ends on a high note. A Diablo game. That ends on a high note. Diablo (y'know, THAT Diablo) was not supposed to be about triumphing over evil. Diablo is supposed to be about trying your damndest to beat evil and losing anyway.

You want dark? try this:

"It is the 41st Millennium. For more than a hundred centuries The Emperor has sat immobile on the Golden Throne of Earth. He is the Master of Mankind by the will of the gods, and master of a million worlds by the might of his inexhaustible armies. He is a rotting carcass writhing invisibly with power from the Dark Age of Technology. He is the Carrion Lord of the Imperium for whom a thousand souls are sacrificed every day, so that he may never truly die.

Yet even in his deathless state, the Emperor continues his eternal vigilance. Mighty battlefleets cross the daemon-infested miasma of the Warp, the only route between distant stars, their way lit by the Astronomican, the psychic manifestation of the Emperor's will. Vast armies give battle in his name on uncounted worlds. Greatest amongst his soldiers are the Adeptus Astartes, the Space Marines, bio-engineered super-warriors. Their comrades in arms are legion: the Imperial Guard and countless planetary defence forces, the ever vigilant Inquisition and the tech-priests of the Adeptus Mechanicus to name only a few. But for all their multitudes, they are barely enough to hold off the ever-present threat from aliens, heretics, mutants - and worse.

To be a man in such times is to be one amongst untold billions. It is to live in the cruelest and most bloody regime imaginable. These are the tales of those times. Forget the power of technology and science, for so much has been forgotten, never to be re-learned. Forget the promise of progress and understanding, for in the grim darkness of the far future there is only war. There is no peace amongst the stars, only an eternity of carnage and slaughter, and the laughter of thirsting gods."

Yeah, shit just got real. God, I love 40k.

This post and your avatar make you truly awesome sir.
/thread

 

[Lucem712]

Though, pretty much every word is abused at a certain point, either by hyperbole or misuse.

Much like the word "gay" (come on people it meant happy before!)

I do my best to discourage its use to mean "homosexual".

On that note you are correct. Soon enough we probably wont even be able to say "like" as in "I like you".

I'll confess I'm a bit guilty of abusing the word 'gay', though I don't use it to mean homosexual or anything dealing with that. Simply as something that is kind of lame, but spell it 'geigh'.

 

[hazabaza1]

"Dark" has also become fucking boring.
I cannot see a single video of The Witcher without someone swearing, bleeding or getting their tits out and it's all just so dumb.

 

[Da Orky Man]

Yeah, shit just got real. God, I love 40k.

Let's be honest, 40k went so dark it rolled right back around to light and fluffy again, and it's all the better for it. I mean all the dark stuff is still there, but it's so hard to take seriously.

Who even tries to take 40k seriously? It's a setting that includes Space Vikings, space-bourne battle-cathedrals, ground based battle-cathedrals, warrior nuns with flamethrowers, and robot zombies.

 

[Da Orky Man]

Might just be my imagination, but can anyone here name a recently released, self described "dark" game that lived up to that description? Because near as I can tell modern publishers haven't amended their definition of what constitutes a "dark" or "mature" game since the hay days of Mortal Kombat (dark = blood). Not even gore. Just blood. For a game to be gory you'd have to be able to get a clear look at the damage that's being done and you'd need the bodies of your enemies to react realistically. But that's not the case- the look of an injured character hasn't changed much in the last decade. (IE: a mannequin with a pressurized ketchup hose taped to it.)

Here's a perfect example- Dragon Age: Origins

So by any estimation, this was a standard fantasy game. Beat for beat. A hero rises from obscurity, unites the land, slays a mighty dragon, roll credits. And yet every pitch I heard before it's release described it as "dark". What makes it so "dark"? Hell if I know, but I do know I found myself coated in blood for about 45 seconds after every fight.

And then just recently I had the pleasure of seeing Diablo 3's ending in its entirety. And... it ends on a high note. A Diablo game. That ends on a high note. Diablo (y'know, THAT Diablo) was not supposed to be about triumphing over evil. Diablo is supposed to be about trying your damndest to beat evil and losing anyway.

You want dark? try this:

"It is the 41st Millennium. For more than a hundred centuries The Emperor has sat immobile on the Golden Throne of Earth. He is the Master of Mankind by the will of the gods, and master of a million worlds by the might of his inexhaustible armies. He is a rotting carcass writhing invisibly with power from the Dark Age of Technology. He is the Carrion Lord of the Imperium for whom a thousand souls are sacrificed every day, so that he may never truly die.

Yet even in his deathless state, the Emperor continues his eternal vigilance. Mighty battlefleets cross the daemon-infested miasma of the Warp, the only route between distant stars, their way lit by the Astronomican, the psychic manifestation of the Emperor's will. Vast armies give battle in his name on uncounted worlds. Greatest amongst his soldiers are the Adeptus Astartes, the Space Marines, bio-engineered super-warriors. Their comrades in arms are legion: the Imperial Guard and countless planetary defence forces, the ever vigilant Inquisition and the tech-priests of the Adeptus Mechanicus to name only a few. But for all their multitudes, they are barely enough to hold off the ever-present threat from aliens, heretics, mutants - and worse.

To be a man in such times is to be one amongst untold billions. It is to live in the cruelest and most bloody regime imaginable. These are the tales of those times. Forget the power of technology and science, for so much has been forgotten, never to be re-learned. Forget the promise of progress and understanding, for in the grim darkness of the far future there is only war. There is no peace amongst the stars, only an eternity of carnage and slaughter, and the laughter of thirsting gods."

Yeah, shit just got real. God, I love 40k.

This post and your avatar make you truly awesome sir.
/thread

<3
First time anyone noticed the avatar.

I commend thee, sir.

 

[ThePenguinKnight]

I'd describe Rule of Rose as a darker game than most.

 

[Bertylicious]

I think Mass effect 3 is very dark,

MUCH more than the other two (ME2 was more "gritty" while ME1 was bright and campy)

sure on the surface its still somwhat bright and actiony, its not dark visually and theres not as much graphic violence as other games..but then things really get going the enitre game is jsut one punch to the gut after another..oh sure there are victorys, but then become few and far between

the sheer scale of what you up against becomes more aparent..thse charachters you met/saw or listened too? yeah they probably died, if anyone has anyone they care about out there chances are they could be dead too...everyone dying, the galaxy is burning

dragon age isnt dark...its world just has the usual complexities and shades of grey as any other well thourght out world...

one thing that annoys me (often in sci fi) is you get some world..like Dead space or whatever..and they feel the need to make the ENITRE world some horrible ship heap to live in....I think a world needs ot be more balanced to be belevable

Totally agree. You need contrast to arive at "dark" otherwise all you end up with "grim/dark" which is basically the same as "camp" because it is OTT due to their being no contrast.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

Here's a perfect example- Dragon Age: Origins

So by any estimation, this was a standard fantasy game. Beat for beat. A hero rises from obscurity, unites the land, slays a mighty dragon, roll credits. And yet every pitch I heard before it's release described it as "dark". What makes it so "dark"? Hell if I know, but I do know I found myself coated in blood for about 45 seconds after every fight.

A

Have you played up to the part with the Broodmother? If that's not dark I dunno what is.

 

[Grape_Bullion]

I think people tend to take dark moments in games and stretch that into the idea that the game is dark. If anyone uses "dark" as a loose term, it's players.

 

[Vault101]

Totally agree. You need contrast to arive at "dark" otherwise all you end up with "grim/dark" which is basically the same as "camp" because it is OTT due to their being no contrast.

one thing that struck me in particular in ME3

[spoiler/] you hear a background conversationabout a solder wanting to send her assari daughter to thessia, since shes about to be sent off, except theres a whole lot of red tape

finally the clerk says that she "pulled a few favors" and the girl is going to Thessia..oh yay happy

excpet thessia falls later in the game [/spoiler]

and there are many more moments like that...you only realise later after thinking about it

 

[Soviet Heavy]

40K is the epitome of Darkness taken too far. It is completely juvenile in its attempts to outdo absolutely everything. In it's current state, 40K is everything wrong with the idea that "Dark=Better".

However, when one reigns the darkness in, or goes even further, they come up with two different universes, which are universally more appealing than the base setting. Pulling the darkness back, and infusing some hope into the setting, you get tails like Gaunt's Ghosts and Ciaphas Cain, which understand tempering cruel subject matter with relatable characters and idealistic goals. You want to see them succeed, and you become more invested as a result.

On the opposite end is when you take the darkness so far that you throw away all pretense towards seriousness and end up with Parody. This is more akin to 40K's roots in Rogue Trader, which was by and large more goofy and sarcastic than current 40K. Taking the darkness with a certain amount of tongue in cheek humor, mocking how depraved it is for the sake of a good laugh. It stops becoming depressing and starts becoming hilarious.

 

[MammothBlade]

"dark" and "gritty" and "mature" are just buzzwords. Nothing more. Further, they pretty much always were (with respect to gaming).

This.

Personally I dislike "gritty" the most. It tells me a game is likely to be quite boring and bland and possibly leave a nasty taste in my mouth. If I wanted grit, I'd just go and shove my face in some gravel.

Dark is massively overused, but the perception of something as dark and edgy sells.

Mature has some place but I prefer intelligent, it suggests that some thought has been put into the dialogue and game challenges, that it will require the input of some intellectual ability. Bonus points for being more specific.

Yes, it's oh so important to analyse game descriptions and mark them as if they were an exam paper.

 

[loa]

Well here's the problem; as you may have noticed, everyone has their own little idea of what "dark" is so it really means close to nothing at all to describe something as "dark".
It's not even clear if the graphical style, the scrip or the presentation is meant.
You should use more precise terms such as "serious".

Cause I think what you mean is you want something you can take serious.
That, again, is a fuzzy term since it is entirely up to everyone individually what constitutes as "serious" for them so maybe it's not that much more precise than "dark".



But at least it sounds less childish.

 

[Gabanuka]

Know what else is a loose term?

My Mom!

But in all seriousness Yes it is being tossed around way to much, what's more annoying is the 40K approach where they try to be oh so Grimdrk and just come across as silly.