I think people tend to take dark moments in games and stretch that into the idea that the game is dark. If anyone uses "dark" as a loose term, it's players.
"Dark" is a Loose Term These Days...
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one thing that struck me in particular in ME3Bertylicious said:
[spoiler/] you hear a background conversationabout a solder wanting to send her assari daughter to thessia, since shes about to be sent off, except theres a whole lot of red tape
finally the clerk says that she "pulled a few favors" and the girl is going to Thessia..oh yay happy
excpet thessia falls later in the game [/spoiler]
and there are many more moments like that...you only realise later after thinking about it
40K is the epitome of Darkness taken too far. It is completely juvenile in its attempts to outdo absolutely everything. In it's current state, 40K is everything wrong with the idea that "Dark=Better".
However, when one reigns the darkness in, or goes even further, they come up with two different universes, which are universally more appealing than the base setting. Pulling the darkness back, and infusing some hope into the setting, you get tails like Gaunt's Ghosts and Ciaphas Cain, which understand tempering cruel subject matter with relatable characters and idealistic goals. You want to see them succeed, and you become more invested as a result.
On the opposite end is when you take the darkness so far that you throw away all pretense towards seriousness and end up with Parody. This is more akin to 40K's roots in Rogue Trader, which was by and large more goofy and sarcastic than current 40K. Taking the darkness with a certain amount of tongue in cheek humor, mocking how depraved it is for the sake of a good laugh. It stops becoming depressing and starts becoming hilarious.
However, when one reigns the darkness in, or goes even further, they come up with two different universes, which are universally more appealing than the base setting. Pulling the darkness back, and infusing some hope into the setting, you get tails like Gaunt's Ghosts and Ciaphas Cain, which understand tempering cruel subject matter with relatable characters and idealistic goals. You want to see them succeed, and you become more invested as a result.
On the opposite end is when you take the darkness so far that you throw away all pretense towards seriousness and end up with Parody. This is more akin to 40K's roots in Rogue Trader, which was by and large more goofy and sarcastic than current 40K. Taking the darkness with a certain amount of tongue in cheek humor, mocking how depraved it is for the sake of a good laugh. It stops becoming depressing and starts becoming hilarious.
This.Zachary Amaranth said:
Personally I dislike "gritty" the most. It tells me a game is likely to be quite boring and bland and possibly leave a nasty taste in my mouth. If I wanted grit, I'd just go and shove my face in some gravel.
Dark is massively overused, but the perception of something as dark and edgy sells.
Mature has some place but I prefer intelligent, it suggests that some thought has been put into the dialogue and game challenges, that it will require the input of some intellectual ability. Bonus points for being more specific.
Yes, it's oh so important to analyse game descriptions and mark them as if they were an exam paper.
Well here's the problem; as you may have noticed, everyone has their own little idea of what "dark" is so it really means close to nothing at all to describe something as "dark".
It's not even clear if the graphical style, the scrip or the presentation is meant.
You should use more precise terms such as "serious".
Cause I think what you mean is you want something you can take serious.
That, again, is a fuzzy term since it is entirely up to everyone individually what constitutes as "serious" for them so maybe it's not that much more precise than "dark".
But at least it sounds less childish.
It's not even clear if the graphical style, the scrip or the presentation is meant.
You should use more precise terms such as "serious".
Cause I think what you mean is you want something you can take serious.
That, again, is a fuzzy term since it is entirely up to everyone individually what constitutes as "serious" for them so maybe it's not that much more precise than "dark".
But at least it sounds less childish.
Haven't played Diablo III and not planning to (against the DRM is a big reason, but mainly I'm not interested). But I know what you mean about futility endings.
But there is one Dark game that lived up to the name: Dragon Age 2. For all the moaning I hear about gameplay, Dragon Age II had a well-constructed story that was certainly dark.
In particular, I think of this sequence. I almost cried, and I still wonder what I could have done differently to prevent it (and no, I will NOT look it up in forums). Don't view if you don't want spoilers.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5OCJhvsIbo&feature=player_detailpage
And there were many other instances that were dark. Times when I was betrayed in the most horrendous ways. Times when I literally had no choice but to commit atrocities. Times when I desperately fought against a startling turn of events with no intention but to survive.
And in the end, I wasn't the triumphant hero and everyone didn't live happily ever after. I was someone who'd fought for what I thought was right, but did a lot more damage and spread a lot more chaos than I'd intended or wanted.
Now that, my friends, is a Dark game.
But there is one Dark game that lived up to the name: Dragon Age 2. For all the moaning I hear about gameplay, Dragon Age II had a well-constructed story that was certainly dark.
In particular, I think of this sequence. I almost cried, and I still wonder what I could have done differently to prevent it (and no, I will NOT look it up in forums). Don't view if you don't want spoilers.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5OCJhvsIbo&feature=player_detailpage
And there were many other instances that were dark. Times when I was betrayed in the most horrendous ways. Times when I literally had no choice but to commit atrocities. Times when I desperately fought against a startling turn of events with no intention but to survive.
And in the end, I wasn't the triumphant hero and everyone didn't live happily ever after. I was someone who'd fought for what I thought was right, but did a lot more damage and spread a lot more chaos than I'd intended or wanted.
Now that, my friends, is a Dark game.
Well, it had a story anyway. I'm actually one of the bigger defenders of DA2 on these forums, and even I wouldn't go so far as to say it was "well constructed". For all that there were some interesting ideas floating around in that stew, DA2 had some serious pacing issues.templar1138a said:
As to whether it would qualify as dark...it definitely touches on some dark themes and has some dark moments, but the overall tone of the game is fairly traditional RPG fare. Bioware tends to stray into levity...a LOT...which undermines the ability of the game to build atmosphere. Very few games/films/books can adroitly spin between comedy and drama/horror.
ME3 was more successful at building a dark atmosphere, although it pulled a lot of punches and wasn't nearly as dark as it could/should have been (strayed a lot more into triumph, really, and then into WTF at the end). That's about as close as Bioware has ever really come, IMO, to crafting a truly dark game.
Witcher 2 is a better example of a "dark" game. There's levity, but less of it, and the world is more consistently miserable, and even your victories tend to have a bitter aftertaste.
Dark Souls is pretty bleak, and for the sake of clarifying: Do you mean Dark or do you mean Explicit?Emiscary said:
Because I've seen this kind of thread before and you seem to be requesting games with detailed, visualised torture/violence/sodomy/cats or whatever which is different to how I personally see Dark. In my view a game's Dark even if it just implies horrible things, like in the first Onimusha game finding a note detailing how a monk resorted to cannibalism while hiding from Demons, it doesn't show anything but it's still kind of dark given he wrote down what he was thinking before he did it. Heck, Shadow of the Collossus had you killing 16 giant stone creatures who half the time did nothing to provoke you, that always felt a little off to me too. Also, Dragon Age was a dark fantasy in the sense the Elves lived in Ghettos except the ones in the forest who you can sacrifice to the Werewolves who eat them. So... there was some stuff in there
The term Dark is inversely proportional to your own level of desensitization. DA:O is Dark by standard definition, but probably not what you would consider dark due to your own exposure. Kinda cool how we are geared isn't it? You can overcome any "stigma" with just the right amount of exposure to it.
I suppose that's true, but going by the "average" level of desensitization to this sort of thing I'd say DA:O is still not a particularly dark game. As with DA2, it brushes up against some dark material, but spends way too much time having a laugh to really build up an oppressive atmosphere. DA:O is also to some degree a victim of expectations, as Bioware specifically name checked George R.R. Martin's ASoIaF as a major influence, and other than very baldly ripping off the Night's Watch they did precious little to appropriate the tone of those books. The villains in DA:O are as black as midnight, many of the heroes are as pure as the driven snow, and what little moral complexity the universe offers is aggressively buried in the subtext. The Mass Effect universe suffers from the same problems. There are some interesting, adult themes in play in those games, but they're wrapped in the cheesy tortilla of a children's fairy tale, and end up going down really easy as a result.Skratt said:
"Gritty" was acceptable back when it didn't automatically translate to "you move like a snail with a monster truck on its back." I did like more down-to-earth games when space fantasy wasn't already populated with gritty, "realistic" space marines.MammothBlade said:
Dark means anything this side of Bugs Bunny, so yeah.
And "Mature," to me, means "BOOBIES!" or "BLOOD!" Which are technically mature in the sense that you should probably BE mature before you see them, but they tend to be alluring to and aimed at teens.
I'd prefer intelligent, too. Intelligent, intriguing and thought provoking don't tend to sell. It also wouldn't tip off my 90s cynicism.
That's a little unfair. I've played a little 40K and there's at least 2-3 factions who are really more Zealous Fanatics than Fanatical Zealots.JEBWrench said:
Dear sir, I'm appalled that you didn't mention that the rabbits would then eat the corpses of the dogs and then mutate into rabid flesh-hungry vampire rabbits with wings that would hunt down every single person on the face of the planet regardless of your original choice.SmashLovesTitanQuest said:
Captcha: Patience, child...what are you trying to tell me, escapist?
Dark souls is pretty damn dark (beside the name of course) it's the very definition of depressive atmosphere in a land with no hope.
actually thinking about it, Demons souls os probably darker.
LA. Noire is pretty dark too, the distrubing murders and strong social issues in a city where everything is corrupt.
Infamous 1 was dark, but more in a cartoony fashion, like the dark knight batman.
I've said dark so much it doesnt sound like a word anymore
actually thinking about it, Demons souls os probably darker.
LA. Noire is pretty dark too, the distrubing murders and strong social issues in a city where everything is corrupt.
Infamous 1 was dark, but more in a cartoony fashion, like the dark knight batman.
I've said dark so much it doesnt sound like a word anymore