Dark Souls 2: Of Missing Monsters and Bustling Bases

[MrBaskerville]

I haven't heard about the "Kill an enemy 10 times" thing, sounds like something that would kinda ruin the game for me :/. It's like games that automatically adjusts difficulty, it doesn't feel right and it's frustrating that it doesn't give you a chance to try again. It just suddenly gets a whole lot easier and you just have to deal with it...

It can work both ways, though. While it can make progression to a boss easier, it takes away the possibility to grind. Crafting materials needed to upgrade weapons are now more finite, unless you use an item that resets the area and increases the difficulty by basically turning that area into NG+. The only way to grind for souls now is through online play and trading the items you gain as a reweard for random objects. It's the whole give with one hand, take with the other thing again, to mixed results.

It does make sense if you view it that way, unfortunately i don't grind, so to my experience it just means that i can abuse the hell out of it (Whether i want to or not), since i'm probably going to die a lot, it will impact my experience and it will cause frustration. I can see it as being any different than the Vita chambers in Bioshock, something that ruined the game for me until they gave you the ability to switch them off.

Obviously i will play the game, but i have a feelng that i'm going to be very dissapointed.

 

[Baresark]

I don't know... I don't feel it's a worse game than Dark Souls. I feel in a lot of ways it improves on the formula. Bigger world, more things to find. In some ways it's the same, the combat is improved in some ways, but it's ultimately the same, so just as good. The enemies despawning complaints feels forced to me. I have not spent enough time in an area for enemies to stop spawning. I have not run into dead empty areas because of this. I love how their are more bosses, some of which I don't feel like can be effectively taken solo. It's possible, but ultimately really really hard. But, that is my opinion. One thing I really like is the ability to respec with an item. I think that is just incredible. No more new playthroughs just to switch classes. You can effectively fix a build gone wrong without replaying the same areas time and time again.

 

[deathmothon]

I wonder if i Should tell Yahtzee that Siegmeyer, and Solaire have branching paths and can be saved...

DS is one of the only games I've played where I quit out of depression. Playing without a guide, pretty much everyone died, even the firekeeper girl. The atmosphere is soul-crushing, and I got stuck down in Blight town and I just couldn't go on anymore. I read most of a guide and played again and beat it about a year later. Even though I didn't finish that first playthrough, it was a very memorable and unique experience.

 

[Darth_Payn]

Jaysus. This game sounds like it doesn't reward you for overcoming challenges so much as punishes you for failing them. I find the whole "world is doomed and there's nothing you can do about it" setup crushes incentive to play it. "Well, game, there's one thing I can do: stop playing this, and pick another where my character's action at least feel like they have some bearing in the story."

captcha: CHUTZPA
I guess you need a lot of that to even think of getting into any "Souls" game.

 

[loa]

Yeah the ds2 ending was weird.

I had no idea why the queen suddenly wants to slice me up and why she's the grim reaper now and... why did I go to that dragon again?
It was kind of a confusing mess where dark souls at least has frampt tell you wtf is going on (kinda sorta) so you know why that final boss is there at least and you know why you are murdering all the things you saw in the intro video while it's just wishy washy "Bearer of blah blah, seek bigger souls because souls. Souls. Oh you want to level up quickly, let me repeat the same shit some more." nonsense in dark souls 2.

I was fine with vague directions of "there are 2 bells, something will happen if they both ring" in dark souls because it gives you an actual goal to work towards even if you're not exactly sure why.
Dark souls 2 did it wrong and that emerald herald can take a long walk off a short cliff for all I care.

It does make sense if you view it that way, unfortunately i don't grind, so to my experience it just means that i can abuse the hell out of it (Whether i want to or not), since i'm probably going to die a lot, it will impact my experience and it will cause frustration. I can see it as being any different than the Vita chambers in Bioshock, something that ruined the game for me until they gave you the ability to switch them off.

Obviously i will play the game, but i have a feelng that i'm going to be very dissapointed.

I actually never ever ran into this and had to sit down and systematically murder a level over and over for it to happen.
You're probably underestimating just how much 10 times is given the size of some of the levels and how little souls matter later on.
You just get them thrown at you and can easily reach level 100 with no multiplayer involvement.

 

[Xariat]

I feel like it's important to point out that there was a change of director between Dark souls and Dark souls 2. Dark souls and demon's souls were directed by the same guy but Dark souls 2 is directed by two different new guys. This might explain why the game feels a little more "phoned in" in the design department.

It's still a very good game though, I have already put 60 hours into it, and I still plan on buying it for PC.

 

[IFS]

I wonder if i Should tell Yahtzee that Siegmeyer, and Solaire have branching paths and can be saved...

Even so its not necessarily a happy end for them, they will eventually go hollow Solaire in particular seems really close to it the last time you talk to him, you've only helped them continue a little longer. Which is really cool since in a way it ties to the endings, with link the fire being choosing to make things continue a little longer. And yes I know Solaire is said to link the fire in his world if you summon him for Gwyn, but its up to your interpretation of the ending whether that is good or bad.

As for this article itself I do find myself agreeing with Yahtzee a lot, the lore feels sort of missing and it was vague in the first game but it was also everywhere. Dark Souls 2 doesn't really present much of its own lore instead it just rehashes the lore of the first game. And yes I get that the souls series and even the king's field series have had recurring elements, but making 'recurring elements' your entire lore really detracts from the experience more than it adds to it. That said I did feel that there was some cool lore that started to crop up near the end, the war with the giants and the throne of want both intrigued me.

As for other changes the gameplay was overall improved in a lot of cool ways, the online features especially, I used to dread pvp in Dark Souls 1, but in 2 I've actually sought it out a number of times. It actually feels fair and fun now, and I've only hit lag a few times. The bosses feel lackluster in a lot of ways, a few are cool (Lost Sinner, Demon of Song, Smelter Demon) but they are still fun to fight. There are a few too many greatswords among the boss soul weapons as well, and I say that as someone who likes greatswords. Really I think some of the problem is that so few of them have names like the ones in the first game. Just giving for example the throne watcher and defender names would have added some layer of lore to them as we could identify them better, we could look for mention of them elsewhere, etc. For standard gameplay they did tend to throw lots of enemies at you a bit too often, and the new explody-flop enemies are just annoying (except the fire ones who die on flopping, I don't mind those guys). A lot of the areas feel too linear (and too small, with not enough interconnection within or between the level(s)) as well, the manor in particular is mostly just one big hallway, instead of the new version of Latria/Archives that it was looking to be. Some areas are still really cool though, in particular I like the Forest of Fallen Giants, The Dragon Aerie, and the wharf, as most of those are big pretty areas with some interesting paths to explore.

Finally on the subject of the enemies ceasing to spawn I have mixed feelings about it, I don't like that it prevents grinding of certain items (especially since high level upgrade materials are just annoyingly hard to come by, which limits experimentation). On the other hand I don't mind that it can make things easier, since its mostly the enemies you are getting past that stop appearing, so its not so much pitying you as it is going 'okay you've proven you can handle this guy, so lets make it faster for you to get to the schmuck who is giving you trouble' that said it does feel like they relied on it too much instead of having more of the miniboss one time spawning enemies like they had in Dark Souls 1. For example in the Dragon Shrine there is a priest who bombards you from afar with lightning balls for a chunk of the early level, and he respawns as any other enemy does, when it really (to me at least) felt like he should have been like the poison blowdart guys in Blighttown that peppered you your first time in, but once you killed them they stopped appearing.

I'm going to start NG+ soon, after wrapping a few more things up, so hopefully some of the stuff there will improve on my complaints, but if it does then more of it probably should have just been in the first playthrough. Even with all the things I've stated here though its still an excellent game that I highly recommend, and one I intend to play a lot more of.

 

[Busard]

Jaysus. This game sounds like it doesn't reward you for overcoming challenges so much as punishes you for failing them. I find the whole "world is doomed and there's nothing you can do about it" setup crushes incentive to play it. "Well, game, there's one thing I can do: stop playing this, and pick another where my character's action at least feel like they have some bearing in the story."

captcha: CHUTZPA
I guess you need a lot of that to even think of getting into any "Souls" game.

The game rewards you for overcoming the challenge by actually overcoming the challenge. That's the point. It doesn't feel like it needs to pat you on the head like a good boy

Other than that, one thing taht a lot of people miss usually in soul games is to simply look at item description. There is sometimes a lot you can learn just by looking at item desc, even for the most humble stuff. That was the case in Dark Souls 1 at least. I've start playing through 2 and there are already signs of it

 

[MrDumpkins]

Dark Souls 2: Of Missing Monsters and Bustling Bases

From despawning monsters to the surprise plotlines that you've been inadvertently taking part in all along, Yahtzee takes an updated look at Dark Souls 2 now that he has finally finished the game.

Read Full Article

You actually do get to find out the answer to curing the curse in the game

Spoiler

When you finally meet vendrick that is the end of the quest that you originally set out for, to find the cure to curse. But what you find is that it can't be cured, Vendrick found all of the power in the world and even that was no match for the curse. Realizing this he locked himself away so that his wife couldn't find another chosen undead and take the throne. The part after vendrick is basically just saying that everything repeats and no matter what you do the world can't be changed. You were given the illusion of choice in the first game as to whether or not you had any impact on the world at the end. But in Dark Souls 2 you can only take the throne, which is basically them saying that someone will always light the fire, and the fire will always fade afterwards, and the cycle repeats. The curse is too powerful and even with all the power in the world it can't be stopped.

 

[ThatQuietGuy]

In my opinion Dark souls one is the more memorable game, better atmosphere, more unique bosses, and a more coherent story. I think at it's best Dark Souls is better but at it's worst Dark Souls 2 never gets as bad as some of the areas in Dark Souls, the first game ran out of steam a bit post Anor Londo and the 4 kings imo. Both solid games though and I'm looking forward to any dlc that may come.

 

[Robyrt]

The Dark Souls II team is clearly prioritizing gameplay fun and accessibility over a coherent world and a mysterious storyline. It doesn't actually make any thematic sense that Majula becomes a bustling, welcoming village, that you become functionally immortal after collecting all the magic rings, or that you are mysteriously upgraded to Destined Future King halfway through. It does make for a cracking good time though - I was never worried that I would torpedo my character by picking objectively bad gear, or that I'd miss out on huge chunks of content and have to re-do the entire game like Demon's Souls, or that I wouldn't be ready for PVP, or that I'd spend 15 minutes just walking to and from merchants to get the correct upgrades.

Honestly, Demon's Souls had incredible atmosphere, but it made me put up with a lot of nonsense that I wouldn't tolerate from any other franchise. Dark Souls was a master class in level design, but it was so opaque I had to read the wiki to properly enjoy myself and experience the storyline. Dark Souls 2 takes the archaic level design and thin plot of Demon's Souls and combines it with combat, RPG and multiplayer systems that are better than they've ever been, and a tutorial that actually explains the game to you.

Remember when you had to make a 20-minute linear run through three identical towers and a poison swamp to get to the ambush that killed you last time? Remember when two of the five Major Bosses were defeated in minigames? Remember when the free weapon drop from the second area you could visit was better than anything you could equip for the next ten hours? Remember when the most exciting plot point in the game was delivered in an item description from an optional boss that the online server would randomly make you unable to visit? Be careful not to see the Souls games with rose-tinted glasses.

 

[Cybylt]

Dark Souls 2: Of Missing Monsters and Bustling Bases

From despawning monsters to the surprise plotlines that you've been inadvertently taking part in all along, Yahtzee takes an updated look at Dark Souls 2 now that he has finally finished the game.

Read Full Article

You actually do get to find out the answer to curing the curse in the game

Spoiler

When you finally meet vendrick that is the end of the quest that you originally set out for, to find the cure to curse. But what you find is that it can't be cured, Vendrick found all of the power in the world and even that was no match for the curse. Realizing this he locked himself away so that his wife couldn't find another chosen undead and take the throne. The part after vendrick is basically just saying that everything repeats and no matter what you do the world can't be changed. You were given the illusion of choice in the first game as to whether or not you had any impact on the world at the end. But in Dark Souls 2 you can only take the throne, which is basically them saying that someone will always light the fire, and the fire will always fade afterwards, and the cycle repeats. The curse is too powerful and even with all the power in the world it can't be stopped.

Spoiler

There's hints that Vendrick and his brother the Lord of Aldia were getting close to a cure for the curse when Nashandra came along and fucked it all up by leading Vendrick to believe killing Giants and taking the Throne of Want would do it.

 

[Sniper Team 4]

I'm enjoying this game more than I did Dark Souls. People are actually helping me, explaining stuff to me (both in-game and real life) and it seems slightly easier. I believe I will try Dark Souls again after I complete this game, although the two endings kind of suck the enjoyment out of the game for me. Not because they're both rather depressing, but because they are so damn short. All that work, and that's all you get? Was it really too much to make another cutscene like that intro?

Anyway, so the game never explains how the world is still working huh? I guess we're going with the Flame ending from the first game then?
I feel that the world, and especially the town, are rather empty and depressing. I feel very lonely wandering around, even in the town. I get the feeling that all these people here are all waiting for death/Hollow (don't spoil anything for me, please) and a sense of hopelessness hangs over the people there. I still have no idea what I'm doing though, short of curing the curse. Not sure how gathering these souls helps with that, but okay. And I guess Yahtzee just explained what the final point of the game is.
Anyway, I'm having fun with it.

 

[Richard Dubbeld]

Why does no one ever mention the Bonfire Aesthetics? they not only respawn enemies in the area you use them, but also knock that area up to Ng+, meaning more enemies and slightly harder ones.

Also, regardless of the ending you chose in DS 1, it seems as though the gradual decay of the world is just that, gradual. Just like our world will not simply end tomorrow, but will take thousands of years.

 

[Deadcyde]

lol that everyone is so hung up on the story like some uptight bards arguing over the interpretation of music and trying to out do each other with steadily more complicated melodies that in the end sound like shit.

The story wasn't that bad, you could take it or leave it. Which is good, I'm sick of having my hand held story wise. The game play however, same as demon souls and dark souls. All they did was add a couple of move sets and complicate the humanity/item mechanic. Did they fix the woeful level design? No! Did they fix the lack lustre mechanics that are about as natural as trying to mosh in a neck brace? no! Did they fix the camera that seemed like it was being worked by the bag from american beauty? No! Did they even fix the hit boxes so the attacks or defences would at least be consistent? No!

The game was a novelty, it appears the novelty hasn't warn off because people are still smug from the first DS. But face facts, this is a poor evolution of dark souls if you could even call it that at all. I'm surprised everyone remains ignorant of that.

 

[Cybylt]

I haven't heard about the "Kill an enemy 10 times" thing, sounds like something that would kinda ruin the game for me :/. It's like games that automatically adjusts difficulty, it doesn't feel right and it's frustrating that it doesn't give you a chance to try again. It just suddenly gets a whole lot easier and you just have to deal with it...

These are my feelings.

It's an inkling of what the anti-easy mode camp was railing against. I don't want the game to dumb itself down for me.
Makes me wonder if I should rent this one first...

All I really got out of it was "There are people who take 10+ tries to get through an area?"

I haven't seen complaints about the game getting easier come up so much as the "I wanna farm for X" one. That would be a problem if the game didn't have items, rings, and entire armor sets that raise drop rates, and things like titanite chunks didn't become infinite in supply from merchants in the end game.

The significantly reduced drop rates on the one-time per fire intensity Black Phantoms is a bit of an issue however. Oh, and there's the Bonfire Intensity thing. You can completely reset the kill counter, refill wooden chests, loot from the corpses and whatnot at the cost of that particular bonfire's area being brought up to NG+ strength.

 

[suitepee7]

The significantly reduced drop rates on the one-time per fire intensity Black Phantoms is a bit of an issue however. Oh, and there's the Bonfire Intensity thing. You can completely reset the kill counter, refill wooden chests, loot from the corpses and whatnot at the cost of that particular bonfire's area being brought up to NG+ strength.

question: any idea if the upgraded areas carry over to NG+. say for example an area is +2 in NG, but then in NG+ does it

A: drop to +1 (resetting the area to the standard in the rest of the world)
B: stay at +2 (not adding any more to the area until the world catches up)
C: raise to +3 (keeping the raised, and adding a +1 to the whole world on top of it)

OT: kinda sucks about the enemy thing, but that seems to be my biggest gripe so far. the souls cap i don't mind so much, but the item drop rate is what concerns me. it means i'll be gimping my character the whole time just so i have increasing item drop rate gear, which is a bit of a lame way to raise the difficulty. i love challenging gameplay, but mechanics designed to be cheap just feel weak in comparison to the standard dark souls 1 set...

 

[Cybylt]

C: raise to +3 (keeping the raised, and adding a +1 to the whole world on top of it)

OT: kinda sucks about the enemy thing, but that seems to be my biggest gripe so far. the souls cap i don't mind so much, but the item drop rate is what concerns me. it means i'll be gimping my character the whole time just so i have increasing item drop rate gear, which is a bit of a lame way to raise the difficulty. i love challenging gameplay, but mechanics designed to be cheap just feel weak in comparison to the standard dark souls 1 set...

That one.

Item drop rates generally aren't that bad though. The worst you'll have it by far is if you want the Heide Knight set and that still has nothing on farming Bladestones in Demon's. Speaking of which, it'd be pretty sweet if they brought back Crushing and Sharp weapons with the new infusion system, make stat scaling mean something again. I'm glad damage typing is better balanced than it was in Dark Souls at least.

Overall I think this game's no where near as bad as some of the poor late game Dark Souls had. Everything post Anor Londo was such a slog of boring, unfinished and, compared to the fairness of the rest of the zones, just bullshit designs in difficulty between the forced death in the Duke's Archive (and yes I know you can jump off the elevator but that wasn't something the developer intended like other shortcuts are) followed by the invisible floors of the crystal caves, removing your shield and/or giving you barely any sight in Tomb of the Giants while fighting in tiny passages against giant enemies with wide attacks and then everything about Lost Izalith.

Dark Souls 2 might not have the highs and many of the bosses aren't as memorable as things like Ornstein and Smough or Gaping Dragon, but there's also nothing even half as bad as Bed of Chaos or skeledogs in the pitch black and I think most people just repress the memory of those when they talk about how great Dark Souls was.

 

[MrBaskerville]

I haven't heard about the "Kill an enemy 10 times" thing, sounds like something that would kinda ruin the game for me :/. It's like games that automatically adjusts difficulty, it doesn't feel right and it's frustrating that it doesn't give you a chance to try again. It just suddenly gets a whole lot easier and you just have to deal with it...

These are my feelings.

It's an inkling of what the anti-easy mode camp was railing against. I don't want the game to dumb itself down for me.
Makes me wonder if I should rent this one first...

All I really got out of it was "There are people who take 10+ tries to get through an area?"

I haven't seen complaints about the game getting easier come up so much as the "I wanna farm for X" one. That would be a problem if the game didn't have items, rings, and entire armor sets that raise drop rates, and things like titanite chunks didn't become infinite in supply from merchants in the end game.

The significantly reduced drop rates on the one-time per fire intensity Black Phantoms is a bit of an issue however. Oh, and there's the Bonfire Intensity thing. You can completely reset the kill counter, refill wooden chests, loot from the corpses and whatnot at the cost of that particular bonfire's area being brought up to NG+ strength.

Well, people didn't complain about the fact that you are immortal in Diablo 3 either, so i guess some of us just have a different experience with this kind of stuff. The fact that i know it, makes it a problem, because i will be tempted to exploit it if i get to a particular hard area. Chipping away on the enemies until they vanish, why even bother using items? Just like Diablo 3, where you can just punch your enemies to death, if you are patient, you WILL win.

I just wish i had a choice, a chance to reload or to disable the feature, that's all.