Dark Souls II Beta Info

[BloatedGuppy]

Yeah, I knew there would be more, those were just examples I used to play. I never knew Shadowbane existed.

I didn't see you mention anything about safe areas, so apologies if I missed that somewhere(because I still don't, save for the recent reply). I was merely pointing out that there are proper MMOs with persistent, 'round the clock PvP. You can't play offline and cut the other players out; you play with other players or not at all. If you leave a safe area then you're fair game. Some of them are even more brutal than the way the Souls games do it, like R.O.H.A.N. and Heroes of Three Kingdoms that allow super high levels to trash level 30s only just entering PvP. Twinks can do it, sure, but they have to go through special measures or be really, really good at the game to make that happen(don't mistake that for me supporting them, though, please).

It might be that I didn't play Dark Souls online often(my shitellite internet isn't suited for playing games online, so I'm only online if I'm at a friend's), but I never really found anywhere that PvP shouldn't be allowed to happen. To be perfectly honest, I don't particularly mind. Personally, I'm all for invasions being possible in hollow form. If you don't like it, fair enough. I can see where the people who don't like it are coming from. It's just my belief that people shouldn't be allowed to cut certain online components while keeping others, simply for the sake of their own convenience. That's wanting to have your cake and eat it, too.

Well that's the thing, right? There are tons of games that allow PvP around the clock under certain circumstances. There are very few where it's involuntary and ALL the time. And all those games are designed around that as the central concept of the game. That's the game. That's why you play it. Everything is designed around facilitating that, balancing that, and making that fun for the people who enjoy that sort of thing.

"Invasions any time, all the time" may be great news for the people who enjoyed Dark Souls as a PvP game first and foremost and will be happy to spend their X hours with the game endlessly invading or being invaded. Those who play the game for the environments, or the lore, or the PvE will find their enjoyment of those things potentially impacted when Johnny Nutsack and I.P.Freely are popping into their game every time they walk five feet.

As Ishal hypothesizes, it's quite possible they will take steps to mitigate this eventuality, but until I know what they are I continue to consider this a disturbing development.

 

[Ishal]

snip

I have to say, between this and the concept art I'm getting hyped too. Coupled with all these youtubers (ENB included) were worried after that infamous "easy mode" interview, and are now excited. Things seem to be looking up.

I think FROM will ease people into the online play potential and by the time they're into the game it'll be part of the experience and not jarring. One example is the boss called "Mirror Knight". Not sure if you've seen it, but it wields a large shield with a mirror and another person inside it trying to get out. The player has a choice to freely attack the boss with no risk of counterattack, or attack and shatter the mirror. If they ignore the mirror, another player can break free from it and fight you along with the boss. Not yet confirmed if this is in, or something they just want to do. But it's interesting and challenging. I can't wait.

 

[Vegosiux]

You either get a hampered experience or you play the game as it was intended to be played.

So, if I ask you how it's actually intended to be played, can you give me anything more than "Why, the way I'm playing it, obviously!"

 

[major_chaos]

1) Biggest thing to take away from this is that it appears being hollow won't stop invasions. You can now be invaded at any time regardless if hollow or in human form. This makes sense since they are trying to play up the online mode due to now having dedicated servers

*Unplugs Ethernet cord* and then Dark Souls 2 was playable. I wouldn't have like the DkS PvP in any event, but the infestation of twinks, hackers and trolls just made it unplayable. It's already I frustrating game, I don't need to get rekt by people with super optimized low SL builds and maxed out gear.

 

[Ishal]

You either get a hampered experience or you play the game as it was intended to be played.

So, if I ask you how it's actually intended to be played, can you give me anything more than "Why, the way I'm playing it, obviously!"

Online mode is meant to give you access to all the covenants, and by extension, the entirety of the Dark Souls community. That includes those who would be hostile to you. There are friendly NPC phantoms and other players who can join covenants with no other goal than to help other players. But to have access to that, you must also face the risk of having players come after you. If that is the way FROM wishes to present it to the players, then that is the way its "meant" to be played.

 

[Exius Xavarus]

Well that's the thing, right? There are tons of games that allow PvP around the clock under certain circumstances. There are very few where it's involuntary and ALL the time. And all those games are designed around that as the central concept of the game. That's the game. That's why you play it. Everything is designed around facilitating that, balancing that, and making that fun for the people who enjoy that sort of thing.

"Invasions any time, all the time" may be great news for the people who enjoyed Dark Souls as a PvP game first and foremost and will be happy to spend their X hours with the game endlessly invading or being invaded. Those who play the game for the environments, or the lore, or the PvE will find their enjoyment of those things potentially impacted when Johnny Nutsack and I.P.Freely are popping into their game every time they walk five feet.

As Ishal hypothesizes, it's quite possible they will take steps to mitigate this eventuality, but until I know what they are I continue to consider this a disturbing development.

The way I see it, that's what this "Way of Blue" is for. If you join, you automatically get help against the invader. Not a perfect solution, but it's something. If From Soft can create another viable method of stopping PvP from happening for players that don't want it 24/7, then by all means. What I'm trying to say is that I don't believe hollow form should be your reprieve from PvP. That incentivizes anyone that's tired of PvP to go into a form that is, narratively, very bad and was never meant to be something to consider as a good way to play, in the first place. It creates a rift in gameplay and narrative that just doesn't connect. The very thing people repeatedly slapped Tomb Raider in the nuts for.

You either get a hampered experience or you play the game as it was intended to be played.

So, if I ask you how it's actually intended to be played, can you give me anything more than "Why, the way I'm playing it, obviously!"

"Why, the way I'm playing it, obviously!" is a terrible answer that nobody should consider valid. We're both intelligent beings capable of intelligent discussion. I'll thank you not to categorize me as that type of person.

As we can see with recent news on Dark Souls II, these invasions are meant to be able to happen, even when hollow. They aren't an optional piece of the online experience. The intended way to play the game is with the risk of these invasions happening. It's a core concept of the Souls titles as a series. They're built into the very laws of the world they created. If you're going to cut them out, you're going to have to cut out several other components. You can't have your cake and eat it. Why bother making a game a certain way when you can pick and choose what happens and what doesn't, because you don't like a particular feature? That defeats the purpose of designing the game the way they did.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

The way I see it, that's what this "Way of Blue" is for. If you join, you automatically get help against the invader. Not a perfect solution, but it's something. If From Soft can create another viable method of stopping PvP from happening for players that don't want it 24/7, then by all means. What I'm trying to say is that I don't believe hollow form should be your reprieve from PvP. That incentivizes anyone that's tired of PvP to go into a form that is, narratively, very bad and was never meant to be something to consider as a good way to play, in the first place. It creates a rift in gameplay and narrative that just doesn't connect. The very thing people repeatedly slapped Tomb Raider in the nuts for.

I hear that, and it's a reasonable observation. I just want to hear about a way to mitigate invasions beyond Way of Blue, or I'm likely going to be giving Dark Souls II a very long pass. Not because I don't like PvP...I do. I play DOTA for heavens sake. I play SC2. I was a big DAOC fan. I just like it when I like it. And "when I like it" is very, very seldom in the middle of a Dark Souls game.

 

[Exius Xavarus]

I hear that, and it's a reasonable observation. I just want to hear about a way to mitigate invasions beyond Way of Blue, or I'm likely going to be giving Dark Souls II a very long pass. Not because I don't like PvP...I do. I play DOTA for heavens sake. I play SC2. I was a big DAOC fan. I just like it when I like it. And "when I like it" is very, very seldom in the middle of a Dark Souls game.

Fair enough. As others have said, I think it's viable for them to create items that hamper an invader's abilities or even shield you from being invaded in the first place. Maybe even a covenant that, when certain conditions are met, invasions within a certain area aren't allowed? To be perfectly honest, I'm having difficulty coming up with ways to prevent PvP that are as easy(or as permanent as you like) as going into hollow form, save for using a particular item with such an effect.

 

[zarker]

Brilliant....they made the worst part of the entire game mandatory. Unless you want to play offline that is and miss out on all the hints from other players or playing with friends. This will be terrible unless they actually balance the PvP this time, which I doubt since DkS and DeS were both crap in that department, I can see this being a massive problem. DkS on PC is full of hackers and griefers so they better fix it otherwise I'm just going to do what I do already: pull out my ethernet cable when someone invades and go about my fun.

 

[Zhukov]

The way I see it, that's what this "Way of Blue" is for. If you join, you automatically get help against the invader. Not a perfect solution, but it's something. If From Soft can create another viable method of stopping PvP from happening for players that don't want it 24/7, then by all means. What I'm trying to say is that I don't believe hollow form should be your reprieve from PvP. That incentivizes anyone that's tired of PvP to go into a form that is, narratively, very bad and was never meant to be something to consider as a good way to play, in the first place. It creates a rift in gameplay and narrative that just doesn't connect. The very thing people repeatedly slapped Tomb Raider in the nuts for.

I hear that, and it's a reasonable observation. I just want to hear about a way to mitigate invasions beyond Way of Blue, or I'm likely going to be giving Dark Souls II a very long pass. Not because I don't like PvP...I do. I play DOTA for heavens sake. I play SC2. I was a big DAOC fan. I just like it when I like it. And "when I like it" is very, very seldom in the middle of a Dark Souls game.

Well, there's always the technique I used for dealing with invasions in DS.

Stand out in the open, wait until they approach, wave, then pull your internet cable.

Most fun I ever had with with the DS PvP elements.

 

[Exius Xavarus]

Brilliant....they made the worst part of the entire game mandatory. Unless you want to play offline that is and miss out on all the hints from other players or playing with friends. This will be terrible unless they actually balance the PvP this time, which I doubt since DkS and DeS were both crap in that department, I can see this being a massive problem. DkS on PC is full of hackers and griefers so they better fix it otherwise I'm just going to do what I do already: pull out my ethernet cable when someone invades and go about my fun.

That's how the game was meant to be. Ishal put it much more elegantly than I, but being online gives you access to all the covenants and messages and little hints about how players died. But with that, comes the Dark Souls community with players both malevolent and benevolent. You shouldn't be able to cut out one feature simply for the sake of your convenience because you don't like it. You have to take the bad with the good, they're a necessary counterbalance to one another.

 

[zarker]

snip

Ooorrr I could do the thing that's more fun for me and just do what I said previously. I play DkS for challenging PvE and to have fun with friends. You're actually trying to tell me hackers and twinks are part of the game and they make it better?

 

[Frission]

/snip

and the obligatory "u casul bro"?

Stupid joke aside, I agree. In Dark Souls becoming a human being was a calculated risk. You knew what you were getting into and it also meant that if you got killed by another player you would go back to being a hollow and in a way "safe".

You had control on when you wanted to fight someone and you could decided when you wanted to go in PvP, which I think made the PvP way more fun and less frustrating.

It's not irredeemable, but there will have to be a mechanic that will make the PvP less frustrating, since nothing would be worse than getting killed while weakened from just having fought a boss.

 

[Arslan Aladeen]

Do the invaders get a time limit too? I remember getting invaded by someone and he hid in some corner of the map when he realized he couldn't get a quick kill on me, impeding my progress in a certain area.

 

[Exius Xavarus]

snip

Ooorrr I could do the thing that's more fun for me and just do what I said previously. I play DkS for challenging PvE and to have fun with friends. You're actually trying to tell me hackers and twinks are part of the game and they make it better?

I said nothing about twinks and hackers. Nor did I say anything about them "making it better." Putting words in my mouth does not a good argument make. You act like twinks and hackers are the only hostile phantoms you can encounter. Prevalent though they may be, they're hardly the only people that play the game. What I said is that you can't take the good without the bad. If you don't like it, play offline. No messages, hampered covenants, no friendly helpers, no hostile phantoms. Problem solved! Sorry if that rubs you the wrong way, but like I said before: Either you play the game as it was designed and intended to be played, or you get a hampered experience. Whether you encounter hackers and twinks or how often you encounter them is entirely up to the counter measures that From Software implements. They're always going to be a problem in games with prominent online components, whether you accept that or not.

 

[Ishal]

snip

Okay I haven't seen that video til now, thats hilarious. "The Legend Never Dies" Oh wow... I lol'd.

 

[ShinyCharizard]

Goddamn. If you can get invaded all the time then I'll just have to play offline. The invasions are no fun. It's always some hacking dickhead with max lightning weaponry at level 10 who lag backstabs you. The invasions have never been fun.

 

[Ishal]

Do the invaders get a time limit too? I remember getting invaded by someone and he hid in some corner of the map when he realized he couldn't get a quick kill on me, impeding my progress in a certain area.

I don't know... lots of this info is from the beta builds and things will likely change several times between now and March. I would imagine that perhaps certain stones could be used to banish phantoms, or perhaps put a DoT (damage over time) on them like poison to force them to come fight you or die.

 

[michael87cn]

1) Biggest thing to take away from this is that it appears being hollow won't stop invasions. You can now be invaded at any time regardless if hollow or in human form. This makes sense since they are trying to play up the online mode due to now having dedicated servers.

Bleargh. That sounds dreadful. I didn't mind invasions, but I enjoyed them on a limited basis and as an accepted risk when I wasn't hollow. This will absolutely shred the atmosphere of the game for me.

Interest in Dark Souls 2...plummeting...

Don't worry, the OP is mis-representing EpicNameBro by leaving out crucial information. That's all.

You can be invaded, but you can also opt into covenants that make sure you have a 2nd player with you so you can always be 2v1 invaders.

Also, you can play offline, just disable your wifi or unplug your cable, tada, no invasions.

 

[Xukog]

I tried to enjoy Dark Souls pvp,I really did. But after a while,I just got so fed up with the invicible hackers,the infinite divine blessing poppers,The people using Karmic Justice as if it were an infinite Wrath of the Gods, The people who would stagger you to death with infinite dragon's breath,and the fucking twinks who just beat the crap out of new characters who can barely scratch them,(twinks who I should mention also tend to use these hacks/whatever you want to call them.) If there will truly be no reprieve from these assholes,I may eventually just give up and play my damn game offline,much as I don't want to...

*Edit* Oh yeah and I forgot to mention people with hacked stats/armor,always fun fighting invaders in the level 25 range who has around 7000 hp and can one shot you with Wrath of the Gods,or Invading at level 120 with maxed out weapons only to see my hits do around 40 hp of damage.....