Dark Souls: Initial Thoughts

[newguy77]

I bought my copy two days ago because this thread made me curious and I'm having fun with it. Never played Demon's Souls so I'm new to the game. Started as a Warrior and I managed to get to the Bell Gargoleys as far as that both of them are infight. I think I'm lacking Stamina, it's around 96, should I grind some Souls to raise it? I'm also using a Halberd I found somewhere because I like it's range and I don't have the Drake Sword.

Why not get the Drake Sword then? Just go to the merchant in the firstish area in the Undead Burg, buy a bow and some arrows (around 50 of any kind should be enough I think) and go under the bridge with the Hellkite Dragon. Whale on the tail with the arrows (aim for the part where it joins his body, it doesn't move much there) and bam! Drake Sword.

OT: Rented this game for yesterday and I had to return it today. Really liked it, got the first bell rung and started going to the sewers. I got to the Gaping Dragon, but didn't go through the fog because I had a relatively large amount of souls. Hopefully it will be cheaper around Black Friday and I'll pick it up then. If not, probably wait until Christmas.

Question Time: Does the Zweihander scale with the attack levels, or would I just be better off staying with the Drake Sword when I get back to the game? I'm at around 17 str and 14 dex.
Also, is there any way to sell stuff, or do I just drop it and hope it's not important?

 

[QueenOliver]

Are you just trolling now?

Because this post is nearly identical to the several other attempts to critise the game.

You confuse your own lack of skill with poor game mechanics, the camera is absolutely fine, I've had no problems with it whatsoever. I'll admit that the lock on is rather finnicky, but nothing unmanageable. Defence is a toss up between maneuverability and being built like a brick wall. Heavy armour allows you to shrug off attacks (you won't flinch), so if you're trying to go for a backstab, even if an attack manages to hit, you should still be able to carry on moving to get an attack in.

Everything else you've stated it purely subjective, and not evidence of poor game design.

To be fair, the camera did take some getting used to for me. It doesn't bother me at all now, though I still notice the little unpolished bits with it. For example, go from the bonfire in the Depths and travel down to the shortcut that leads to the Gaping Dragon in the area beside where the giant rat used to be. If you swivel the camera around a bit you'll see it goes right through the bars. The bars will block your view like this. However, it's not like there are any enemies there to defeat, and I haven't found any issues like that in areas where you have to fight. It's just one of those little areas that lack polish that every game has. Heck, I had way more problems with Ninja Gaiden's camera back in the day, and that's one of the best hack 'n' slash games of all time.

We have full agreement on everything else though of course.

 

[QueenOliver]

Has a hellish day yesterday! Im at a stage where the game amps up its difficulty again so I decided to kill all the things I couldnt earlier. I took out afew Blue Wyverns, 3 Black Knights, Havel the Rock, The Hydra and then the Golden Golem.

I did this to farm up some souls and while I killed all those mobs I lost a ton of souls too and gained no ground soul level wise :-/

I guess I am going to have to stick it out in Blight Town and find a way to cure that disease or whatever those first few mobs give you. I have to use all 10 of my flasks and run back to the Depths Bonfire to restock.

Golden Golem? Wheeeeeereeeeeeeee??????
I want to beat it!

At the Hydra follow shoreline around the left side all the way in the back and he is there. He isnt all that hard either.

Thanks a lot, on my way to beat him now!

Be aware that when you kill the golem and free that magic teacher inside, she will disappear for the rest of the game if she takes a single hit. So when you summon her with her golden summon sign back at the shoreline, make sure you've taken out all the golems there or you risk missing out on some useful sorceries.

 

[Itsthefuzz]

I bought my copy two days ago because this thread made me curious and I'm having fun with it. Never played Demon's Souls so I'm new to the game. Started as a Warrior and I managed to get to the Bell Gargoleys as far as that both of them are infight. I think I'm lacking Stamina, it's around 96, should I grind some Souls to raise it? I'm also using a Halberd I found somewhere because I like it's range and I don't have the Drake Sword.

Why not get the Drake Sword then? Just go to the merchant in the firstish area in the Undead Burg, buy a bow and some arrows (around 50 of any kind should be enough I think) and go under the bridge with the Hellkite Dragon. Whale on the tail with the arrows (aim for the part where it joins his body, it doesn't move much there) and bam! Drake Sword.

OT: Rented this game for yesterday and I had to return it today. Really liked it, got the first bell rung and started going to the sewers. I got to the Gaping Dragon, but didn't go through the fog because I had a relatively large amount of souls. Hopefully it will be cheaper around Black Friday and I'll pick it up then. If not, probably wait until Christmas.

Question Time: Does the Zweihander scale with the attack levels, or would I just be better off staying with the Drake Sword when I get back to the game? I'm at around 17 str and 14 dex.
Also, is there any way to sell stuff, or do I just drop it and hope it's not important?

The Zweihander does scale with strength, but I think there are some better 2 handers that scale with strength you get by the time the drake sword loses its power.

 

[QueenOliver]

Question Time: Does the Zweihander scale with the attack levels, or would I just be better off staying with the Drake Sword when I get back to the game? I'm at around 17 str and 14 dex.
Also, is there any way to sell stuff, or do I just drop it and hope it's not important?

As you increase your stats, weapons with a scaling attack grade (E,D,C,B,A or S) for that stat will do more damage. Just look at the item description for the Zweihander. Sticking with the Drake Sword will become difficult after a while, since it will only ever do 200 damage unless you upgrade it, which requires rare dragon scales.

After you ring the second bell you'll get a new NPC at Firelink who will give you souls for items. Items that you drop will turn into Vagrants in other people's worlds. Vagrants are small crab looking creatures that are fairly easy to kill. I've only encountered one so far. Sadly I didn't realize what he was at the time and don't recall what he dropped. I believe they are supposed to drop something valuable, so if you ditch excess items you'll probably be doing another player a favor. This is still rather uncertain though.

 

[newguy77]

Just look at the item description for the Zweihander.

I returned the game today to the redbox, so I can't check the stats myself, but thanks for the explanation for the letter grades, I was wondering what those were for.
Also I think I found a vagrant, it's basically an upside down jellyfish that shoots homing missiles at you, right? If that's it, it gave me a humanity so yeah, pretty good reward. Thanks for the advice.

 

[RedEyesBlackGamer]

The only thing I don't like are the bosses, I wanted more of a challenge but they're piss easy

So they aren't "Flamelurker hard" then?

Even Demon's Souls bosses get pretty easy once you understand them. False King is actually not too hard once you understand how he moves. That is except Flamelurker. On NG+ (and beyond) he is one hard mofo (he's easy enough in the first playthrough though).

Maybe Dark Souls bosses are like that? Pretty easy on the first go, harder on NG+?

I hope I get this game this weekend...

I suck at games like this, but I'm handling the bosses just fine. That is a sign that they aren't too hard. Except for Orstein and Smough. That fight is coming up for me and I've seen people die at it. A lot.

 

[krazykidd]

The only thing I don't like are the bosses, I wanted more of a challenge but they're piss easy

So they aren't "Flamelurker hard" then?

Even Demon's Souls bosses get pretty easy once you understand them. False King is actually not too hard once you understand how he moves. That is except Flamelurker. On NG+ (and beyond) he is one hard mofo (he's easy enough in the first playthrough though).

Maybe Dark Souls bosses are like that? Pretty easy on the first go, harder on NG+?

I hope I get this game this weekend...

No , they are hard , hes just a good player . Although if you use a walkthrough everything is pretty easy , thats why i'm not using one and getting my ass handed to me by the

Spoiler

four kings at lvl 60

 

[QueenOliver]

Just look at the item description for the Zweihander.

I returned the game today to the redbox, so I can't check the stats myself, but thanks for the explanation for the letter grades, I was wondering what those were for.
Also I think I found a vagrant, it's basically an upside down jellyfish that shoots homing missiles at you, right? If that's it, it gave me a humanity so yeah, pretty good reward. Thanks for the advice.

I believe there might be more than one form of vagrant. I wouldn't describe the one I saw as an upside down jellyfish. They glow like black phantoms though.

 

[Sram]

Why not get the Drake Sword then? Just go to the merchant in the firstish area in the Undead Burg, buy a bow and some arrows (around 50 of any kind should be enough I think) and go under the bridge with the Hellkite Dragon. Whale on the tail with the arrows (aim for the part where it joins his body, it doesn't move much there) and bam! Drake Sword.

Ok, I'll go back and buy some arrows for the crossbow I found of one of the Skeletons, the Stats of the Sword are looking better than my Halberd (except the non scaling part)

The most important thing I've ever learned in Demon's Souls and thus dark souls) about melee builds can be represented by a single word: Stamina. Stamina is everything. To succeed with a melee build in demon's souls, you needed around 40 stamina at least and you needed to know how to manage it well because if you use it all attacking but leave none to dodge with, you easily die. So you can never have too little stamina.

Edit: Oops, too MUCH stamina, I mean >.<

Edit 2: And by 40 stamina, I of course mean Endurance

As i thought, I can easily block the attacks of the Gargoyle and get a hit with my weapon but have to stay back and replenish my Stamina afterwards. Dodging feels akward because I'm probably to heavy (29 of ~46 weight), my charakter is falling down and slowly moving up, so leveling Endurance is another goal.

 

[newguy77]

Ok, I'll go back and buy some arrows for the crossbow I found of one of the Skeletons, the Stats of the Sword are looking better than my Halberd (except the non scaling part)

You can't aim the crossbow as far as I've found, so you do need an actual bow and arrows to hit his tail.

 

[LostCrusader]

Why not get the Drake Sword then? Just go to the merchant in the firstish area in the Undead Burg, buy a bow and some arrows (around 50 of any kind should be enough I think) and go under the bridge with the Hellkite Dragon. Whale on the tail with the arrows (aim for the part where it joins his body, it doesn't move much there) and bam! Drake Sword.

Ok, I'll go back and buy some arrows for the crossbow I found of one of the Skeletons, the Stats of the Sword are looking better than my Halberd (except the non scaling part)

The most important thing I've ever learned in Demon's Souls and thus dark souls) about melee builds can be represented by a single word: Stamina. Stamina is everything. To succeed with a melee build in demon's souls, you needed around 40 stamina at least and you needed to know how to manage it well because if you use it all attacking but leave none to dodge with, you easily die. So you can never have too little stamina.

Edit: Oops, too MUCH stamina, I mean >.<

Edit 2: And by 40 stamina, I of course mean Endurance

As i thought, I can easily block the attacks of the Gargoyle and get a hit with my weapon but have to stay back and replenish my Stamina afterwards. Dodging feels akward because I'm probably to heavy (29 of ~46 weight), my charakter is falling down and slowly moving up, so leveling Endurance is another goal.

to dodge quickly, your weight needs to be half of the total.

I haven't looked too far back into the thread but I am surprised to not see anyone talking about the separate multiplayer servers. So far that is my only real complaint against Dark Souls.

 

[Condiments]

Wow, I'm fighting Sif at SL 41 and having some trouble. Except I'm having fun at the same time....

This game rocks!

 

[bpm195]

Dark Souls is easily among my least favorite games I've payed full price for.

I never played Demon's Souls so my expectations were completely off. My basic problem with it is that fighting minions is more tedious than challenging; Block and kite attacking when they recoil and follow up once or twice. The boss fights seem more like you have to discover the trick to passing rather than fighting them. That I only know from hearsay, but even everything I seen in this thread confirms bosses are only hard if you haven't figured out how to fight them. Overall the gameplay isn't thrilling and demanding; it's tedious and punishing.

I really wanted to like this game, mainly because I paid Sixty Four Dollars and Seventy Nine Cents for it, but it presents a challenge that isn't particularly engaging. I literally facepalmed when I saw a Giant Boar with armor literally everywhere except its tail, and the moment I learned the trick to toss a skull into a fire and watch it burn to death was the moment I stopped caring and put an ad on Craigslist.

To give credit where credit is due, the atmosphere is awesome, the whole confusing dynamic of it is confusing in an interesting way, the death mechanics are great and add a lot of weight to typically trivial decisions. It does a lot of things right, but the difficulty is done in a way that makes me want to turn the game off instead of trying again.

 

[Bat Vader]

I never even played Demon's Souls but I think Dark Souls is an awesome video game. I've been playing video games for 30 years and most of them are the same old shit that hold your hand every step of the way. No risk whatsoever. Dark Souls is the complete opposite and there is an absolute wealth of content in the game and it has insanely high replay value. I don't know what kind of games you grew up with, but back in the day when I was growing up that is what made a game fun to play. Difficulty and not knowing what the fuck you were supposed to do next or what was around the corner or on the next screen. Perhaps the newer generation of games like Gears of War and CoD is what you should stick with instead of trying to railroad a game that pretty much every critic and gamer are having a blast with. And Dragon Age 2 dude? Really? That has shit for content in comparisons to Dark Souls. Honest to god I just think you suck at the game and are trying to convince others that it isn't good because you are butt hurt about dying constantly. Really man....the game isn't for you, so you should probably just stop playing it.

'hold your hand'. This is exactly the kind of snobbery that pervades this game. There's no risk in this other than losing your souls, which, given how everything respawns (other thanboss souls), actually works in your favour as you accumulate more on the way back. The only downside is that it's horrifically tedious doing so. It's a painful and obvious video game contrivance that takes you out of the game and hits you over the head with the fact you are playing a game, not embarking on a fantasy adventure.
Dragon Age 2 is a far better game than this will ever be. I don't need difficulty to have a fun gaming experience and it's sad that so many people all of a sudden believe they do. For an equally closed setting it is far better looking and far more engaging. DS is just a hack and slash with no story and no meaning and no depth.
I couldn't care less about dying constantly. I care about boring repetitive gameplay and that's all this is. When you strip away the inexplicable hype you have a tired, anachronistic game that doesn't even compete with Diablo 2.

Dark Souls doesn't have a story? That makes me sad. I was going to rent it later on in the week but if it does not have a story than I see no reason in renting it. I don't care how hard a game is. As long as the story and the characters are well written than I will do my best to get through it.

 

[lapan]

Wait, a game that's known for being completely unforgiving in every aspect is unforgiving of you if you hit an NPC? Unthinkable!

No, just bad game design.

But it's exactly this unforgiving difficulty the main audience of this game likes. It isn't bad game design if that's how it's intended to be.

 

[lapan]

Wait, a game that's known for being completely unforgiving in every aspect is unforgiving of you if you hit an NPC? Unthinkable!

No, just bad game design.

But it's exactly this unforgiving difficulty the main audience of this game likes. It isn't bad game design if that's how it's intended to be.

what does the difficulty level have to do with NPC aggro? You shouldn't be able to aggro npc's at all. It's this lack of care that makes me quesiton the ability of these developers. All these reviews and priase fo rhtis game implies the game has some clever AI at the heart of it, like an actual human, that's playing against you. In actual play it's just cheap. It plays like a beta test; a mess of oversights and bad decision making. Allowing players to screw themselves completely by way of accidentally aggroing a mob isn't unforgiving difficulty it's laziness on the part of the devs. Clearly they just assumed it wouldn't happen. Clearly they were wrong.

But that's part of many RPGs and intended. The whole point of roleplaying is to allow you to do as much as possible so you can immerse yourself into the character.
Fallout for example does just that.

You even get some good drops if you actually kill the npcs in Dark/Demon souls. You just have to decide if it's worth it.

 

[Zeh Don]

Dark Souls isn't about being a 'snob', or an 'elitist'. The only people who are labelling the game in this way are the ones who aren't enjoying the experience; not every game is supposed to be enjoyed by every person.

Dark Souls is about the gameplay from yester-year's games brought kicking and screaming into the modern age for better and for worse.
Duke Nukem Forever tried and failed to bring the old school FPS mentality into the modern age. Dark Souls has successfully translated the gameplay of the original Metroid, Castlevania and Ghost and Ghouls games into the current generation, like Demon Soul's before it.

It's hard. Frustratingly so. Some of why is sheer difficulty; monsters with lots of health. Lots of long fights strewn together between check points. Some of it is mechanical; using a checkpoint respawns the monsters, as does dying. And some of it is simply for the sake of making it harder to finish the game; one hit kill monsters, traps, item prices, unforgiving of mistakes, etc.

Dark Souls, like Demon Souls, is a masterpiece. There isn't some "easy mode" to activate, there isn't some "trick" to making the game require less time, effort and broken controllers. Not everyone is going to get to the end. Not everyone is going to enjoy the journey. But, it's for those reasons that the rest of us enjoy the game.
I prefer games that require me to actually learn the game's ins and outs. Halo, Call of Duty, Fable, Mass Effect, Oblivion, Darksiders, The Sims, Crysis; they all have their fans and are all, generally, pretty great games. They're also pretty damn easy to finish, and have so many mechanics designed to make sure I get to the end of the game that actually getting to the end has little to no meaning.
Dark Souls is gameplay from an age where finishing even ONE of the games you owned was an achievement. When the end screen was earnt with blood, sweat and tears - it wasn't handed to you. It's not for everyone. Me? It's a GOTY contender. If it's not for you, _trade it in and shut up_.

 

[QueenOliver]

Dark Souls doesn't have a story? That makes me sad. I was going to rent it later on in the week but if it does not have a story than I see no reason in renting it. I don't care how hard a game is. As long as the story and the characters are well written than I will do my best to get through it.

Dark Souls has a story in the same way that Metroid Prime and Shadow of the Colossus have stories. It has cutscenes here and there, you meet characters who talk to you, and you have a rough idea of what you're trying to accomplish, but it's not all spelled out to you. It's a mysterious world, but you piece it together as you go along. Of course I personally I didn't like Metroid Prime's execution of this approach since it's story came in the form of text logs that you had to search for in each area. It was like having to search all over your house for all the different pages of your favorite Douglas Adams book or something. Dark Souls handles this approach very well IMO, as did Demon's Souls. The dialogue is quite captivating, and dare I say it, I think the game has one of the coolest introductory cutscenes in gaming history. However, if you're taste is for RPG storytelling in the vein of Bioware's lengthy dialogue sequences or Squenix's long cutscenes, the game isn't for you.

 

[Morthello]

After playing for a while, i really don't care about anything in this game. I mean what's my motivation? I'm currently trying to fight my way past a mob of skeletons and some indestructable rhino before being met with about 5 elite spear guys in this Undead Parish

And for what? Apparently there's some bell i need to ring or something? Why should i care enough to push past the difficulty level?

And any desire to see the sights has been effectively smothered because any new places will have to be trudged through again and again because of the frankly asinine checkpointing system

Compare this to another difficult game like say Persona 3 or 4, you cared enough about the characters and the overall story to push past the difficulty level, it makes you want to see how the game plays out.

I just don't feel arsed enough to continue with Dark Souls really... Fuck it maybe in a few months i'll start a new game and check if there're any good build guides on teh interwebz

All of this is subjective of course, i'm not saying you can't like it or anything.

I'm usually a "storyfag" when it comes to games as well(motivation to complete objectives), but I really like the fact the story isn't really spoon fed in this game. Everything seems so mysterious, and adds to the atmosphere.

I could understand the complaint though(big into story driven/well written rpgs), but this game's combat and design is just too good.

yeah i was thinking about this the other day. I really enjoy the story(or lack of it) because it really adds to the bleakness and mystery. Its not beating you over the head with it but there are hints that give you an idea of whats going on and things get much more clear once you progress to a certain point. I also love reading all the origins to each new piece of armor or weapon you pick up. They help flesh out the world and tell a little of the history.