Dark Souls: Initial Thoughts

[Zarmi]

The game is okay. The difficulty doesn't seem to have been raised, but instead tuned down. I don't really find the game to be that hard, it's just a simple trial and error system, and about learning wtf the bosses do. Beyond that, there's nothing hard about it.

My main problem is that the framerate takes some drops at the worst of times, mainly if a boss/mob performs any sort of Area of Effect attack, or when a lot of stuff gets broken on screen at the same time. However, it's only a minor complaint.

No actually, my main complaint is outside the game. It's the fact that walkthroughs, guides and help are springing up all over the internet. This game is just not meant to be walkthroughed, if you miss something, you should try to manage without. Again, the game is not hard - You just need to take a careful approach, instead of spamming your attacks and hoping to kill everything.

Also annoys me there's no severe penalty for dying. Sure, your drop your souls and humanity, but then you go back and pick it up. If you die on the way, you're just stupid, as you already made it there once. Was more fun in Demon's Souls, where you got reduced to 50% hp and only got brought back to life after killing a boss, or using a special item.

I also found the bosses to be generally easier, or is it just me? I remember clearly first time I fought the use golem-knight in Demon's Souls, as a knight... But no boss in Dark Souls comes close to that feeling. The dual gargoyles was a freakin' walk-over in Dark Souls, due to being alive I could just summon that Sun-knight fella NPC, and he'd pretty much tank every single hit while killing them by himself.

 

[RaZor921]

I personally found it amazing. It's fun, challenging and rewarding. I'm about 15-20 hours into the game, and I absolutely love it

 

[Tallim]

A quote springs to mind reading this thread "The Lady doth protest too much, methinks."

Game is pretty much spot on for what I like in a game, something that's missing from 99% of modern releases.

 

[lapan]

This isn't a roleplaying game.

I don't understand how you can think it is; because you kill monsters and pick up treasure and because ti has a bunch of sub DnD statistics? You don' tplay a role. You don't have a setting and you don't have a story. It's a hack and slash affair. That's it.

Games that intend for players to be this punitively affected for mistakes (accidental NPC ggro is quite different from the intentional kind). Frankly these developers have got a lot to learn. This game plays like a beta. That's the only way i can describe it's construction.

THis game shouldn't garner praise and people shouldn't be liking this. I would hate fo the industry to think this is the way to design games. Do not give the wrong impression to the industry. I would hate for more developers to think this is a good design blueprint because it absolutely isn't.

But it's an intentional choice to give you the option to attack and kill every NPC in the game. Once killed they drop rare items for you. If it was not designed for this option there wouldn't be any items to these npcs.

It's as much an RPG as any other RPG with a linear story such as the FF franchise. Some may argue that it's not a "true" rpg because you arent completely free in your choices, but that is hard to do in computer games.

The rest of your post reads as "Why do you like what i don't like". There is an audience that likes these kinds of extremly hard and tedious games. You don't have to buy any Monster hunter, Demon Souls and Dark Souls, just stick to what you personally like.

Dark Souls is generally less tedious than the first game though. They give you free potions every time you visit a bonfire, death isn't as punishing and there are more checkpoints.

 

[TheDooD]

the game's fine its difficult but not impossible it demands exploration and careful thinking before doing anything and lets you feel the weight of your actions. The only thing I don't like are the bosses, I wanted more of a challenge but they're piss easy
I just beat Queelag?(Lava Spider) and went to hell and killed the giant dragon demon thingy and that was WAY too easy, Drake Sword or not the bosses should be more than just giant targets with a lot of HP
and what's the deal with Black Knights? are they really meant to be so weak? once you know how to parry its not even a challenge anymore, and you can even parry WITHOUT a shield equipped! If that ain't fucked up I don't know what is

Yea I tried out class type b4 I really got settled with a starter that I like. I'm in the process of making a duel lightning cestus build tank and I'm gonna be doing backflips and shit in a Golem / Black Iron armor just because I think it'll be badass. I agree all the bosses / those knights look scary when you first see'em. Yet all most new players need to do is take slow. Then they'll soon see a pattern that they can exploit.

 

[StrixMaxima]

No it isn't.
This isn't 'old school' gaming at all. It's just a complete lack of design. These aren't clever conscious choices made by a development team, they are the absence of such. You don't make a game hard by making it cheap, you just make it frustrating.
Frustrating game design is poor game design.
This idea that improving the design of Dark Souls somehow detracts from the experience is such tosh. So is the notion that anything other than this approach is some kind of 'namby pamby' experience.
If this represents the best this year has to offer then the industry might as well give up.

God almighty, WE GET IT! You don't like the game. In your expert and highly sought-after opinion, it sucks. It lacks any redeeming factor. You'd rather stick a blunt knife between two random vertebrae. It is an abomination that should have never seen the light of day.

Please move on.

The game is only frustrating if you keep on trying things that don't work, time and again. The game trains you into being a better player, just like Demon's Souls did. It is a simple concept that somehow you cannot seem to grasp.

What I like the most about both titles (Demon and Dark) is that you can make the game artificially much more difficult simply by choosing suboptimal approaches. And, at the same time, it remains completely viable. This is game design at its best.

Please, don't answer this post (or any other post, in fact). Your opinion is given. We get it. Play all those games you find amazing. Go have fun, instead of trolling a game board with nonsensical armchair developer knowledge.

 

[QueenOliver]

This isn't a roleplaying game.

I don't understand how you can think it is; because you kill monsters and pick up treasure and because ti has a bunch of sub DnD statistics? You don' tplay a role. You don't have a setting and you don't have a story. It's a hack and slash affair. That's it.

Games that intend for players to be this punitively affected for mistakes (accidental NPC ggro is quite different from the intentional kind). Frankly these developers have got a lot to learn. This game plays like a beta. That's the only way i can describe it's construction.

THis game shouldn't garner praise and people shouldn't be liking this. I would hate fo the industry to think this is the way to design games. Do not give the wrong impression to the industry. I would hate for more developers to think this is a good design blueprint because it absolutely isn't.

You say it isn't an RPG and then admit that it has DnD stats, DnD being... an RPG. Clown of the Earth here everyone.

You continuously accuse others of being smug, pretentious, and elitist, and yet you are the one here trying to dictate what we should or should not like, and what sorts of games should and should not exist. You are no different from the obnoxious punks that look down on those who like Angry Birds, or Wii Sports, or whatever. You're nothing but a sniveling hypocrite.

Oh, it's soooooo horrible when developers make a game with a certain target audience in mind, right? It's not enough for you to choose not to play it or like it. Nobody should play it, never mind like it! How dare we do so!

Seriously, quit being a whiny, entitled, sanctimonious child and grow the fuck up already.

 

[ramboondiea]

okay, i think i have played enough to give a proper opinion:

the game is cheap, and not in the monetary sense, the enemies can see you half way across the map through walls and even if you havnt made any noise. this isnt all enemies, but its enough to be annoying.

the game can become very tedious due to the grinding required to buy the simplest of items, this isnt good game design it just needlessly extends the game length and in a game which is basically trial and error these consumables become ridiculously overpriced.

the maps are poorly designed, too many times have an arrow hit an invisible wall despite having a clear line of site.

also this game is not as open world as they have said, its open world in the same way that half-life is an open world game, you will come across the same area and find numerous shortcuts through the game (i.e doors to before) although the convenience of these is still debatable.

and now the thing i hate about this game with a passion, the co-op, or should i say the lack of a co-op, basically i knew very little about this game, but what i did know was it was a co-op game and i say numerous tags along the lines of "grab your friends" yet its impossible to actually get a co-op game going, ontop of the ridiculous limits they have put on it (similar level, same area, same server must have one human) it means your never going to get a co-op going. i have about 17 hours of play and i have summoned once and never been summoned. never seen an invade never been able to successfully invade. its ridiculous a month from now i may what a game, hit an hard part and probably be noone else playing, and yet i know my friends have copies yet we cant play with each other, its really infuriating.

also why dont i get to party chat, i have to pay for the ability to party chat i dont think the game should ba allowed to block that feature

now for some of the positive:
the game can be fun, its tense its thrilling and its vastly rewarding when you get through a hard part.
its a very addicting game,had it since Friday and i have put in a good number of hours in.
the gameplay is solid for the most part, its offers lot of customisation in terms of fighting, and it can match you style nicely.
the atmosphere and music really is great

 

[AlternatePFG]

also this game is not as open world as they have said, its open world in the same way that half-life is an open world game, you will come across the same area and find numerous shortcuts through the game (i.e doors to before) although the convenience of these is still debatable.

I don't think they ever advertised open world that much. The game is more like a Metroid/Castlevania game in terms of openness more than anything else.

 

[Itsthefuzz]

Yeah I guess the biggest complaint I have is that the invading items being consumed on use is a bad idea... only because it's a tough time to find someone in 10% of your level AND human. Fun when it works though

 

[Itsthefuzz]

Yeah I guess the biggest complaint I have is that the invading items being consumed on use is a bad idea... only because it's a tough time to find someone in 10% of your level AND human. Fun when it works though

If you can find the proper covenant to join you get an unlimited use item and invading other players becomes a game in its own right as you try to raise your rank in the covenant.

I joined them yesterday, having a blast invading poor unexpected people trying to make it through blighttown.

 

[TheDooD]

Yeah I guess the biggest complaint I have is that the invading items being consumed on use is a bad idea... only because it's a tough time to find someone in 10% of your level AND human. Fun when it works though

One of the easier ways to get invaded is piss off the dark moon convenant. By killing the Princess and Gwyndolin in Anor Londo. Overall the entire area is empty, dark and perfect for PVP yet be careful because you'll have to fight the Fire Keeper there. So pretty much finish up the entire area before trying this out.

 

[krazykidd]

The game is okay. The difficulty doesn't seem to have been raised, but instead tuned down. I don't really find the game to be that hard, it's just a simple trial and error system, and about learning wtf the bosses do. Beyond that, there's nothing hard about it.

My main problem is that the framerate takes some drops at the worst of times, mainly if a boss/mob performs any sort of Area of Effect attack, or when a lot of stuff gets broken on screen at the same time. However, it's only a minor complaint.

No actually, my main complaint is outside the game. It's the fact that walkthroughs, guides and help are springing up all over the internet. This game is just not meant to be walkthroughed, if you miss something, you should try to manage without. Again, the game is not hard - You just need to take a careful approach, instead of spamming your attacks and hoping to kill everything.

Also annoys me there's no severe penalty for dying. Sure, your drop your souls and humanity, but then you go back and pick it up. If you die on the way, you're just stupid, as you already made it there once. Was more fun in Demon's Souls, where you got reduced to 50% hp and only got brought back to life after killing a boss, or using a special item.

I also found the bosses to be generally easier, or is it just me? I remember clearly first time I fought the use golem-knight in Demon's Souls, as a knight... But no boss in Dark Souls comes close to that feeling. The dual gargoyles was a freakin' walk-over in Dark Souls, due to being alive I could just summon that Sun-knight fella NPC, and he'd pretty much tank every single hit while killing them by himself.

Well speaking as a person who has never player demons's souls , it is most likely because you know what to expect sort of , you have experience that i or any other person who hasn't played demons's souls doesn't have . That being said , i find tbe game difficult , especially since i going through it blind , and i refuse to look at walkthroughs , especially on my first playthrough , and especially with a game like this . It does annoy me that there are so many walkthroughs but hey what can you do ? People are so used to being held by the hand that a game like this is a complete turnoff without help. That being said i don't look down on people using walkthroughs but i find it a shame that they don't give the effort to play the game the way it was meant to be played . I personally looked up one thing this morning , and the answer was so fucking obvious i facepalmed ...minor spoiler

Spoiler

i got to the giants cave thinggy , found the lantern , equipped it in my right hand and nothing happened . So i was herping and derping with no light even though i had the lantern, in looked it up and behold, i was suppose to put it on my left hand instead od the sheild .i felt like a failure lol

I'm also stuck at the new lando boss , i'm lvl 60 and can't for the life of me kill it .

 

[Itsthefuzz]

I'm also stuck at the new lando boss , i'm lvl 60 and can't for the life of me kill it .

Spoiler

I managed to do it easily with a heavy set of lightning resistant gear + a lightning weapon, and beating Smough first. I then just sat directly under his skinny buddy and was only ever hit by his lightning jump... which I only took about a vitality worth of damage from with my shield up (was using Havards stuff)Just make sure you have enough stamina to block it, and back up a bit when he does jump.

 

[Dansen]

I bought my copy two days ago because this thread made me curious and I'm having fun with it. Never played Demon's Souls so I'm new to the game. Started as a Warrior and I managed to get to the Bell Gargoleys as far as that both of them are infight. I think I'm lacking Stamina, it's around 96, should I grind some Souls to raise it? I'm also using a Halberd I found somewhere because I like it's range and I don't have the Drake Sword.

Why not get the Drake Sword then? Just go to the merchant in the firstish area in the Undead Burg, buy a bow and some arrows (around 50 of any kind should be enough I think) and go under the bridge with the Hellkite Dragon. Whale on the tail with the arrows (aim for the part where it joins his body, it doesn't move much there) and bam! Drake Sword.

OT: Rented this game for yesterday and I had to return it today. Really liked it, got the first bell rung and started going to the sewers. I got to the Gaping Dragon, but didn't go through the fog because I had a relatively large amount of souls. Hopefully it will be cheaper around Black Friday and I'll pick it up then. If not, probably wait until Christmas.

Question Time: Does the Zweihander scale with the attack levels, or would I just be better off staying with the Drake Sword when I get back to the game? I'm at around 17 str and 14 dex.
Also, is there any way to sell stuff, or do I just drop it and hope it's not important?

The Zweihander does scale with strength, but I think there are some better 2 handers that scale with strength you get by the time the drake sword loses its power.

The only other two-hander I have found so far is the Great Ax, which is stronger but slightly slower and has less range and reach. I'm going to stick with the Zweihander because its is able to kill more people faster.

Also how do I upgrade it to plus 10 for weapon ascension, because I upgraded the sword with my Tinite chunk to +6, I still had more Tinite
but he wouldn't let me upgrade it further, do I need another ember?

 

[Daystar Clarion]

I bought my copy two days ago because this thread made me curious and I'm having fun with it. Never played Demon's Souls so I'm new to the game. Started as a Warrior and I managed to get to the Bell Gargoleys as far as that both of them are infight. I think I'm lacking Stamina, it's around 96, should I grind some Souls to raise it? I'm also using a Halberd I found somewhere because I like it's range and I don't have the Drake Sword.

Why not get the Drake Sword then? Just go to the merchant in the firstish area in the Undead Burg, buy a bow and some arrows (around 50 of any kind should be enough I think) and go under the bridge with the Hellkite Dragon. Whale on the tail with the arrows (aim for the part where it joins his body, it doesn't move much there) and bam! Drake Sword.

OT: Rented this game for yesterday and I had to return it today. Really liked it, got the first bell rung and started going to the sewers. I got to the Gaping Dragon, but didn't go through the fog because I had a relatively large amount of souls. Hopefully it will be cheaper around Black Friday and I'll pick it up then. If not, probably wait until Christmas.

Question Time: Does the Zweihander scale with the attack levels, or would I just be better off staying with the Drake Sword when I get back to the game? I'm at around 17 str and 14 dex.
Also, is there any way to sell stuff, or do I just drop it and hope it's not important?

The Zweihander does scale with strength, but I think there are some better 2 handers that scale with strength you get by the time the drake sword loses its power.

The only other two-hander I have found so far is the Great Ax, which is stronger but slightly slower and has less range and reach. I'm going to stick with the Zweihander because its is able to kill more people faster.

Also how do I upgrade it to plus 10 for weapon ascension, because I upgraded the sword with my Tinite chunk to +6, I still had more Tinite
but he wouldn't let me upgrade it further, do I need another ember?

Once you upgrade your weapon to +6 using the weapon modification menu, the weapon will be available to upgrade in the 'reinforce weapon' menu.

 

[QueenOliver]

No it isn't.
This isn't 'old school' gaming at all. It's just a complete lack of design. These aren't clever conscious choices made by a development team, they are the absence of such. You don't make a game hard by making it cheap, you just make it frustrating.
Frustrating game design is poor game design.
This idea that improving the design of Dark Souls somehow detracts from the experience is such tosh. So is the notion that anything other than this approach is some kind of 'namby pamby' experience.
If this represents the best this year has to offer then the industry might as well give up.

Aaaawe, did somebody not make it out of Ren's Fortress? Boohooo. (Seriously that place is a kick in the teeth though)

Anyway, that note about frustrating gameplay? Yeah, that's in that Dragon Age you tote so religiously. DA, ain't hard. It's criminally easy, but it has it's moments of frustration. EVERY game does this. Grinding takes you out of the game? Too bad every RPG on any system EVER has had you grinding to complete it. You know why in DS most normal enemies will three shot you? Because most of the time you one shot them.

And all that crap about conscious decision? Are you mentally ill? Seriously, the game was designed like this ON PURPOSE. Every thing that is in the game was put there, ON PURPOSE. Hitting NPCs by accident? Shouldn't be swinging your weapon around them to begin with, clown.
Difficulty curve something like a NASCAR track? Well you're supposed to learn attack patterns, draw enemies away from one another; you're supposed to be SMART, and TACTICAL. Unlike DA, and TES, where the only option for combat, is to just go in there and hit them. Maybe block sometimes.

Story? Yes, it's light in story and I'm sure that's part of the point. They didn't hire Stephen King, and not everyone will put the money to do so you know. You have to talk to people to get the story. As far as you know you're just some undead who was in a cage when shit hit the fan.

Obviously what you want out of a game is for them to hold your hand, read you a book, and give you the same boring game play styles that have been stagnating and producing cheap clones for the past decade.
The game is not cheap, it's challenging. If you want to kill someone, you have to know how. Unlike the other games you mention where you just go and do it. Your opinion is not law, especially when most of the community seems to be disagreeing entirely with you. Kindly take your elitism and video game snobbery elsewhere and let the rest of us enjoy a work of art. Troll.

Before he comes back with more "snobbery fanboy herp derp," let's clarify that other RPG's and other games out there that aren't like Dark Souls are perfectly fine for what they are. They're just very safe in their ambitions. When people say things like Dark Souls "is a breath of fresh air" or "a nice break from the same old shit" or even "a welcome return to the good old days," they're expressing frustration with the lack of creativity when it comes to game design. For example, how many games out there have tried to do a melee combat system in the style of the Legend of Zelda? Apart from Zelda itself, not many. It's refreshing when compared to just copying the God of War "square for light attack, triangle for strong attack" style, or being one big button mashing fest like Fable.

It's like if you were a big fan of 2D Metroidvanias back in the day and have missed the sort of experience they offer. Handheld Castlevania's and the like just aren't enough to scratch the itch for whatever reason, and then Shadow Complex comes out. You'd be overjoyed, and you would wonder why it took the industry so damn long to fill this niche. Serious Sam is the sort of game a lot of old-school fps fans are looking forward to. When's the last time a single player (ie not L4D) fps in the style of Serious Sam came out? Painkiller? This doesn't mean military fps's need to disappear altogether. Some of us just want games that cater to other forms of enjoyment that are lacking in the industry.

 

[Itsthefuzz]

Just got to the tomb of the giants. It's my most hated area now... AND I got invaded right away.

 

[QueenOliver]

Just got to the tomb of the giants. It's my most hated area now... AND I got invaded right away.

Do you have the Cast Light sorcery? It will make your life much easier in that area until you get the lantern. You get it from the Dusk of Oolacile who you unlock by killing the Golden Golem mentioned earlier in the thread.

 

[TheDooD]

Story? Yes, it's light in story and I'm sure that's part of the point. They didn't hire Stephen King, and not everyone will put the money to do so you know. You have to talk to people to get the story. As far as you know you're just some undead who was in a cage when shit hit the fan.

I would honestly buy a Dark Souls book / series of books written by Stephen King. Only he could extend the story while staying true to it imo.