Dark Souls or Demon's Souls, which is mechanically harder?

[rvbnut]

My friend and I were discussing the differences between Dark Souls and Demon's Souls and were trying to determine which one was harder than the other. We were trying to compare mechanics and we came to a stalemate. Partially because neither of us has actually played through the entire game and also because we were doing other things at the time.

So my fellow escapists, which game is harder?

If you are just saying it feels harder, state that it is a feeling.
If you are saying that it is harder due to a mechanic, go into the mechanic and if there are comparisons to Demon's Souls/Dark Souls then by all means compare.

Edit: I didn't put on a poll because I wanted to hear people's reasons behind their answer.

 

[Skops]

Depends on the character build in my opinion. I find using magic in Demon's Souls makes the game considerably easier than Dark Souls. But if its a straight slug fest in melee, then I find Demon's Souls is less forgiving with a number of encounters. In terms of character building, Dark Souls is far more flexible than Demon's Souls because prerequisites are lower, and so long as you have the tools, you can use magic. You can make a Warrior strong in Miracles and Magic, whereas in Demon's Souls it feels more geared towards "If you're a Barbarian, ignore anything that doesn't make you stronger physically".

In terms of Boss Fights, I think Demon's Souls has harder boss fights. Apart from Ornstein & Smough, I can't think of any boss fights in Dark Souls that gave me any real trouble. Demon's Souls boss fights can actually be quite difficult. If you're playing online, the 3rd boss in the Tower of Latria is a PvP battle versus anyone looking to invade another's world, regardless what NG+ they're on. Yeah, you can be paired to face someone on their 7th playthrough of the game on your first. Also a number of boss fight have a dangerous terrain that can easily get you killed with the smallest mistake.

Verdict: Inconclusive.

 

[ShinyCharizard]

Demon's Souls had harder bosses. Flamelurker in particular was just brutal. And I feel it had harder normal enemies as well, Like the Red-Eye Knights, Black Skeletons and Mind Flayers.


But then it also had a number of bosses that you could only seem to kill by standing in some random corner shooting arrows for 20 minutes. Which was never fun.

 

[BraveSirRobin]

Honestly it depends on which you played first. Dark Souls makes several system improvements over Demon's Souls, but the two games combat is so similar that in my experience whichever you played first will feel harder simply because you've had that experience when you try the other. I put nearly 200 hours into Dark Souls before I finally got a PS3 and played Demon's Souls and by that point I could pretty much walk into Demon's Souls and finish it no problem, even Flamelurker and Old King was no trouble.

It also depends on your build. Magic in Demon's Souls makes the game much easier than melee, even more so than Dark Souls. The fact that you can replenish your mana and don't have limited casts makes spells like Soul Ray absolutely destroy bosses with the ability to stay far away.

Bosses in Demon's Souls also tended to have a gimmicky way to beat them compared to Dark Souls. Dark Souls bosses seemed to tend more towards the Flamelurker/Maneaters style of fast, relentless attacks where you really just have to rely on knowledge of their attacks and skills, barring a few exceptions (BoC or Pinwheel).

The one part of Demon's Souls I find harder is that it is much more difficult to simply sprint to the boss in most of the levels. Many areas of dark souls you can easily get through without fighting anything(Tomb of the Giants, Sen's, Izalith).

 

[lapan]

Demon Souls is harder in early game, when grass is still scarce and you don't have much to work with yet. Normal monsters are stronger than in Dark souls and tendency can push the difficulty up even further. Lategame you can just stock up on large stashes of healing items and spells like second chance completely ruin the balance. Bosses are generally easier, though some have interesting gimmicks or are very atmospheric.

 

[Smooth Operator]

Well in Demon Souls you can cheese a lot of the fights with ranged attacks, that would make it easier on occasion but overall it is far less forgiving and where you lose/repeat 10-15 minutes in Dark Souls you are looking at 30-60 in Demon Souls.

 

[Sande45]

Dark Souls is more difficult, and I think that's 90% due to Demon's Souls' hub-based system. It has 5 areas that can be played more or less in an order you choose so they're all about equally difficult. So If I decide to play Shrine of Storms (world 4) first, it's going to be difficult. More difficult than Dark Souls. But when I'm done with that, I'm facing 4 ares similar in difficulty, with a significantly more powerful character. So essentially the game WILL get easier as you play because that's the way it was designed. Dark souls has a pretty linear world so it can get steadily more difficult as you progress.

 

[Grace_Omega]

I found that the character attack and movement speed in Demon's Souls is faster, which makes the game somewhat easier. I haven't actually played that much of it compared to Dark Souls though.

 

[Norithics]

Oh, Demon's, definitely. I played Dark Souls first, then Demon's, with full knowledge from my boyfriend who had platinum'd both games. Demon's Souls had just unforgiving mechanics like the dark phantom enemies (these were supposed to resurge in Dark due to the Gravelords, but this was kind of badly implemented so it really just sort of didn't happen), the armor was complete crap unless you went fully tank, and World Tendency was just a *****.

In theory, you could do things like scam magic forever using items, but stuff like repair costs just absolutely devastated your Souls count unless you were willing to grind and grind and grind.

 

[teebeeohh]

dark souls
but that may be because i like to walk the path of least resistance in hard games and thus avoided all the hard bosses in demons souls by stealth-poison killing them if possible. i also played a caster and would just stand in a corner and read a book while waiting for my magic to recharge.
i played both games almost exclusively offline(demons souls because people keep fucking with my world tendency and dark souls because i own the PC version)

 

[Aeonknight]

Let's see...

Some areas of Demon's Souls were just downright brutal, but it was also what set the bar for difficulty. Dark Souls may seem easier, but that's may only seem like it because it came second, after Demon's Souls already trained us in how to approach it.

The only issue I remember having w/ Demon's Souls was the rolling skeletons in that one lightning shrine area. Any other time I died was just due to inexperience w/ the situation and/or lack of preparation.

Dark Souls had the archers in Anor Londo.

Flame Lurker really didn't bother me, but I had a shield w/ pretty good fire resistance and was generally tanky. Although he probably gets worse the further you get into NG+.

Personally... I'd say Dark Souls. The world in Dark Souls is more unforgiving and dangerous, as well as harder to navigate (took forever to find my way out of Blighttown the first time), and even some of the "easy" bosses like Minotaur and Capra Demon were implemented in ways that could/would destroy you if you didn't know how to handle it. Demon's Souls... most bosses were "apply fire to sword, kill in 3 swings". Phalanx, the first boss in the swamp, the last boss in the swamp, the pvp duel (if you were smart and logged off PSN), many of them were pitifully easy, even as a noob to the series.

 

[Eternal_Lament]

I'll break it down in the categories I think are relevant:

Enemies

Spoiler

Hands down, Demons Souls' enemies are straight up harder than the enemies in Dark Souls. For one thing, the AI on enemies in Demons Souls is more complex, in that the enemies are less likely to follow easy to determine patterns. Dark Souls' enemies are very much ruled by a less complex AI, and as such are easier to beat on that level. Draw distance is perhaps the best indicator of this, in that enemies in Demons Souls are more likely to follow you for longer (if not for as long as they can) where as enemies in Dark Souls (with a few exceptions) are dependent on draw distance.

Bosses

Spoiler

I may be in the minority, but I feel that the bosses in Demons Souls are much easier than those in Dark Souls. Sure, bosses such as the Minotaur Demon, Bell Gargoyles, Capra Demon, and Asylum Demon are significantly easier than any boss in Demons Souls. At the same time, you'd have a tough time convincing me that bosses such as Ornstein and Smough, the Four Kings, Gravelord Nito (without divine weapons), Seath, Kalameet, Artorias, and Manus are NOT harder than any of Demons Souls' HARD bosses.

Weapon Combat

Spoiler

I suppose Demons Souls would be harder from the following aspects: first, weapons break faster than in Dark Souls. Not only is durability lower for each weapon when compared to Dark Souls, the rate of durability decreases faster as well. Second, parrying is a lot harder in Demons Souls than it is Dark Souls. Part of it is window of opportunity, but the other aspect is that, in combination with enemy AI, it is harder to determine when the best opportunity to parry really is. Third, while Demons Souls has better upgrade options, upgrade materials are a ***** to come across. Only 10 colorless demon souls per playthrough, Demon Weapons can't be upgraded, and I don't think I have to explain to anyone the
torture that is Pure Bladestone farming.

Magic Combat

Spoiler

Dark Souls is actually harder on this front. Magic in Demons Souls, while not as varied, was essentially the easy mode for that game (especially using the Royal class) The existence of an actual mana bar is the biggest difference in difficulty, as it meant that you were free to take chances and miss with magic. The charge system in Dark Souls means you have to make each shot count. Further, magic has varying degrees of success in Dark Souls, and doesn't necessarily make the game easier the way it does in Demons Souls.

Healing

Spoiler

While Demons Souls SEEMS harder on account of having to use a limited resource, the grass system is significantly easier than Dark Souls' healing system. Grass can be consumed almost instantly, and is relatively easy to come by after a while. Dark Souls SEEMS easier because of the Estus system, but is revealed to actually be harder later on. You can't consume Estus very fast, and has a limited use until you rest at a checkpoint. There are other healing items, but Humanities take even longer to consume, Elizabeth's Mushrooms are extremely limited (only four per playthrough I think), and Goddess Blessings are rather expensive.

Multiplayer

Spoiler

PVP is much easier to enter in Dark Souls, in that there are a slew of items one can use in order to battle other players (Red eye stone, dried finger, red sign soapstone, gravelord eyes, dragon eye, Blue eye stone, covenant rings) but entering Co-Op is also much harder. For instance, finding summon signs, or having your summon sign found, is dependent on whether players are in certain covenants (which isn't that big a deal, since anyone who does Co-Op becomes a Sun Bro anyways) The real difficulty however is that, unlike Demons Souls, there's no way for you to do Co-Op with your friends. Instead, both of you have to be on the same server, AND both of you need to have the same chance of encountering the other (see above with covenant affecting chance to see)

I'm sure there are more I can list, but I'll leave this for now and come back to edit later if need be.

EDIT: Other mechanics that slipped my mind

Armor

Spoiler

Not sure if this necessarily makes the game harder, but in Demons Souls there is absolutely no reason to wear heavy armor. It offers you defense, but if you're good you shouldn't be getting hit anyways. All the armor does is slow you down, and after a while the defenses offered on heavy armors won't do you any better than wearing lighter armor. While the same can be said with Dark Souls, Dark Souls at least has the Poise system. For those who don't know, Poise is a sort of invisible stat that basically means how much damage you can take before being stunned or staggered. A person with 0 Poise for instance will be stunned or staggered with each hit they take. A person with 40 Poise by contrast will need to take a few hits before becoming stunned or staggered. It essentially means that even if an enemy or a boss hits you, you still have that chance to drink dat Estus/swing dat sword/fire dat soul spear (assuming of course that you have the poise to do so) Heavy armor thus has a benefit, as heavy armor offers the most poise, where as lighter armors often offer no poise at all.

Status Effects

Spoiler

On a mechanical level, the status effects of Dark Souls are much more dangerous than in Demons. Demons merely has different degrees of life lost per second, with least dangerous to more dangerous being Bleed, Poison, and Plague. IN Dark Souls, while Poison and Toxic (essentially Plague) function the same, Bleed at least is more deadly, in that a certain amount of health is immediately drained after a certain number of hits, plus there is Curse, which while not as prevalent, is at least mechanically more dangerous than anything in Demons.

Weight

Spoiler

It's less a matter of difficulty and more a matter of annoyance, but Demons Souls had item and equip burden, while Dark Souls merely had equip burden. Logically speaking, item burden is more realistic, but it was stupid none-the-less, in that you could easily lose out on amazing items without realizing it, meaning you could easily lose out on that one weapon that really "makes" your build. How you ask? Items in the Souls games work like this: loot that isn't dropped by an enemy remains in the world forever, even if you die or turn the console off. Dropped items on the other hand disappear if you die or quit the game. The problem is that whenever you pickup an item that exceeds your item burden, the item would immediately be "dropped", meaning if you died, quit the game, or even left the world, that item would be gone forever, and since you don't know how heavy an item will be when you pick it up, there's always that worry that instead of getting a cool piece of loot, you'll lose cool tools to help in your quest.

Traveling

Spoiler

It becomes a mute point once you acquire the Lord Vessel, but traveling in Dark Souls is technically harder, in that you can get stuck in an area quite easily. In Demons Souls, if you run into an area that's too tough for you, you can easily return to the Nexus and try somewhere else. In Dark Souls, if you get stuck in an area, and your bonfire is in that area, you're shit out of luck on that one. It's why most people recommend to avoid going to Ash Lake until after you've acquired the Lord Vessel.

Those are all I got for now.

 

[SantoUno]

Dark Souls definitely. While Demon's Souls had it's fair share of bullshit moments (Valley of Defilement's Cement Swamp and 1-4's Blue Dragon, LOOKING AT YOU), none of the bosses in Demon's Souls curbstomped me as bad as the ones in Dark Souls when I faced them the first time.

Penetrator, Maneater, Flamelurker, False King, all those "brutal" bosses were quite manageable the first time I fought them, even if I died to them a crapload of times before I finally beat them.

Then comes Dark Souls, where I couldn't even beat the Taurus Demon without looking it up on Youtube. I didn't even know I was supposed to fight the Bell Gargoyles because I had to fucking idea I was supposed to go there right after. Getting killed right off the bat by the Capra Demon was no fun. Orstein and Smough were brutal even with co-op. Four Kings can go fuck themselves for forcing you to DPS to victory. Ceaseless Discharge is just plain bullcrap in terms of its attacks clipping through the environment and no real way to dodge them. Bed of Chaos needs no explanation, and lastly Gwyn is just a lame ass boss with hardly any context. YES I prefer crippled King Allant who can't even get up to attack you over Gwyn just because his appearance was much more symbolic in terms of what it all led up to once you vanquished the last of the demons.

 

[KOMega]

Demon's Souls.

Plenty of times where some parts of the game the point was to push you into a bottomless pit to kill you.
Dark Souls had all those types of events condensed nicely into Sen's Fortress and to some extent the Bed of Chaos if you didn't use the archery trick.

edit: forgot about the Anor Londo Archers. That part is kinda bullshit. But my answer still stands.

And if you wanted to collect stuff in the game, the stupid World Tendency system would come kick your ass.

It's easy to earn Black Tendency but incredibly hard to earn White Tendency, and different events opened up depending on which you had, so you always had to try to do all the White Tendency events/rewards first while being careful not to die too much and lose it, or accidentally trigger Black Tendency. Thankfully playing it during christmas time gives you auto White Tendency everywhere. (Conversly Playing demons souls around halloween gave you Black Tendency for everywhere.)

So I managed to snag everything last time around.

I also find the False King and Old King to be pretty difficult in comparison to anything I fought in Dark Souls. Since I could only kill both those guys in kinda gimmicky ways. Instead of actually fighting them.

I like how armor actually matters in Dark Souls though. Armor eventually had almost no real value after a point in the Demon's Souls.

 

[lapan]

Then comes Dark Souls, where I couldn't even beat the Taurus Demon without looking it up on Youtube. I didn't even know I was supposed to fight the Bell Gargoyles because I had to fucking idea I was supposed to go there right after. Getting killed right off the bat by the Capra Demon was no fun. Orstein and Smough were brutal even with co-op. Four Kings can go fuck themselves for forcing you to DPS to victory. Ceaseless Discharge is just plain bullcrap in terms of its attacks clipping through the environment and no real way to dodge them. Bed of Chaos needs no explanation, and lastly Gwyn is just a lame ass boss with hardly any context. YES I prefer crippled King Allant who can't even get up to attack you over Gwyn just because his appearance was much more symbolic in terms of what it all led up to once you vanquished the last of the demons.

How did you manage to get lost after already beating Taurus Demon? Unless you sequence break with the masterkey it's pretty much a straight road to the church?

 

[GundamSentinel]

I'll break it down in the categories I think are relevant:

Enemies

Spoiler

Hands down, Demons Souls' enemies are straight up harder than the enemies in Dark Souls. For one thing, the AI on enemies in Demons Souls is more complex, in that the enemies are less likely to follow easy to determine patterns. Dark Souls' enemies are very much ruled by a less complex AI, and as such are easier to beat on that level. Draw distance is perhaps the best indicator of this, in that enemies in Demons Souls are more likely to follow you for longer (if not for as long as they can) where as enemies in Dark Souls (with a few exceptions) are dependent on draw distance.

Bosses

Spoiler

I may be in the minority, but I feel that the bosses in Demons Souls are much easier than those in Dark Souls. Sure, bosses such as the Minotaur Demon, Bell Gargoyles, Capra Demon, and Asylum Demon are significantly easier than any boss in Demons Souls. At the same time, you'd have a tough time convincing me that bosses such as Ornstein and Smough, the Four Kings, Gravelord Nito (without divine weapons), Seath, Kalameet, Artorias, and Manus are NOT harder than any of Demons Souls' HARD bosses.

Weapon Combat

Spoiler

I suppose Demons Souls would be harder from the following aspects: first, weapons break faster than in Dark Souls. Not only is durability lower for each weapon when compared to Dark Souls, the rate of durability decreases faster as well. Second, parrying is a lot harder in Demons Souls than it is Dark Souls. Part of it is window of opportunity, but the other aspect is that, in combination with enemy AI, it is harder to determine when the best opportunity to parry really is. Third, while Demons Souls has better upgrade options, upgrade materials are a ***** to come across. Only 10 colorless demon souls per playthrough, Demon Weapons can't be upgraded, and I don't think I have to explain to anyone the
torture that is Pure Bladestone farming.

Magic Combat

Spoiler

Dark Souls is actually harder on this front. Magic in Demons Souls, while not as varied, was essentially the easy mode for that game (especially using the Royal class) The existence of an actual mana bar is the biggest difference in difficulty, as it meant that you were free to take chances and miss with magic. The charge system in Dark Souls means you have to make each shot count. Further, magic has varying degrees of success in Dark Souls, and doesn't necessarily make the game easier the way it does in Demons Souls.

Healing

Spoiler

While Demons Souls SEEMS harder on account of having to use a limited resource, the grass system is significantly easier than Dark Souls' healing system. Grass can be consumed almost instantly, and is relatively easy to come by after a while. Dark Souls SEEMS easier because of the Estus system, but is revealed to actually be harder later on. You can't consume Estus very fast, and has a limited use until you rest at a checkpoint. There are other healing items, but Humanities take even longer to consume, Elizabeth's Mushrooms are extremely limited (only four per playthrough I think), and Goddess Blessings are rather expensive.

Multiplayer

Spoiler

PVP is much easier to enter in Dark Souls, in that there are a slew of items one can use in order to battle other players (Red eye stone, dried finger, red sign soapstone, gravelord eyes, dragon eye, Blue eye stone, covenant rings) but entering Co-Op is also much harder. For instance, finding summon signs, or having your summon sign found, is dependent on whether players are in certain covenants (which isn't that big a deal, since anyone who does Co-Op becomes a Sun Bro anyways) The real difficulty however is that, unlike Demons Souls, there's no way for you to do Co-Op with your friends. Instead, both of you have to be on the same server, AND both of you need to have the same chance of encountering the other (see above with covenant affecting chance to see)

I'm sure there are more I can list, but I'll leave this for now and come back to edit later if need be.

Very nice overview and I agree with practically everything there.

I'd spent a lot of time with Demon's Souls before starting Dark Souls and I must say I found some of the boss battles in Dark Souls significantly harder (and I haven't even played the 'Prepare to Die' edition). For me that was because there wasn't a way you were 'supposed to' fight the bosses like there seemed to be in Demon's Souls. Most Dark Souls boss battles were tests of endurance more than anything else; keep dodging/blocking and get the occasional hit in. Demon's Souls' boss battles seemed more geared towards using the environment and certain skills to your advantage. I didn't really have the patience for Dark Souls' approach and as a result I had more trouble with it and I did't like it as much as Demon's Souls.

 

[lapan]

I'd spent a lot of time with Demon's Souls before starting Dark Souls and I must say I found some of the boss battles in Dark Souls significantly harder (and I haven't even played the 'Prepare to Die' edition). For me that was because there wasn't a way you were 'supposed to' fight the bosses like there seemed to be in Demon's Souls. Most Dark Souls boss battles were tests of endurance more than anything else; keep dodging/blocking and get the occasional hit in. Demon's Souls' boss battles seemed more geared towards using the environment and certain skills to your advantage. I didn't really have the patience for Dark Souls' approach and as a result I had more trouble with it and I did't like it as much as Demon's Souls.

I actually prefer it this way. with most of the bosses in Dark Souls you always have some amount of tension as a mistake can end up costing you.

Meanwhile the majority of Demon's Souls bosses was really easy.

Spoiler

Phalanx
Easy as fuck, split them up and they are just normal enemies
Tower Knight
Run a round around the level, then hug his heels. Moderate challenge as his shield slam can hurt, but you can easily retreat and heal where he cant reach you
Penetrator
Felt like a dragged out version of a normal enemy fight
Armor Spider
As soon as you get past the corridor it's mostly just waiting for it to come down into attack range
Flamelurker
The most compareable boss to Dark Souls. Was pretty fun and challenging
Fool's Idol
slightly harder version of Pinwheel, still a joke
Maneater
Only hard because they spend 50% of the fight in the air
Adjudicator
Hug belly, win fight with almost no risk
Old Hero
Interesting and enjoyable, but if you use thiefs ring it becomes a mockery
Leechmonger
I don't remember much about him
Dirty Colossus
Same as above

Old Monk
If you get the PvE version: easy, you can chain knock-down him. If you get an invader it's the best bossfight of both games
Dragon God
Less intuitive than Bed of chaos, boss i had the least fun with
Maiden Astraea
Atmospheric, but easy
Storm King
Either a boring endurance fight if you use a bow or trivial if you use the sword they provide you
Old King Allant
Enjoyable and challenging. Amused me when mine glitched out.
Old One
Atmospheric, but easy

 

[GundamSentinel]

I actually prefer it this way. with most of the bosses in Dark Souls you always have some amount of tension as a mistake can end up costing you.

Meanwhile the majority of Demon's Souls bosses was really easy.

Spoiler

Phalanx
Easy as fuck, split them up and they are just normal enemies
Tower Knight
Run a round around the level, then hug his heels. Moderate challenge as his shield slam can hurt, but you can easily retreat and heal where he cant reach you
Penetrator
Felt like a dragged out version of a normal enemy fight
Armor Spider
As soon as you get past the corridor it's mostly just waiting for it to come down into attack range
Flamelurker
The most compareable boss to Dark Souls. Was pretty fun and challenging
Fool's Idol
slightly harder version of Pinwheel, still a joke
Maneater
Only hard because they spend 50% of the fight in the air
Adjudicator
Hug belly, win fight with almost no risk
Old Hero
Interesting and enjoyable, but if you use thiefs ring it becomes a mockery
Leechmonger
I don't remember much about him
Dirty Colossus
Same as above

Old Monk
If you get the PvE version: easy, you can chain knock-down him. If you get an invader it's the best bossfight of both games
Dragon God
Less intuitive than Bed of chaos, boss i had the least fun with
Maiden Astraea
Atmospheric, but easy
Storm King
Either a boring endurance fight if you use a bow or trivial if you use the sword they provide you
Old King Allant
Enjoyable and challenging. Amused me when mine glitched out.
Old One
Atmospheric, but easy

The big thing I didn't like was that many of Dark Souls' bosses were like Flamelurker: slugfests. Demon's Souls bosses were easier, but at least there was more variety to them. Bosses like Flamelurker, Allant and arguably Penetrator are fun, but I liked that Demon's Souls bosses weren't all like that. I liked the fact that you could cheap many of them if you wanted to, because that implied multiple ways to tackle them.