Dark Souls Softcore mode?

[Colt47]

I was just thinking about this today when a Black Phantom came into my game while farming in Arno Londo and I backed up my save file again for 13th billion time. People were previously talking about how it would be hard to implement an easy mode, but why not implement something akin to Terraria's Softcore, mediumcore, hardcore modes?

I have to say that Dark Souls seems a lot more enjoyable when I don't have to worry about losing all my stuff from getting invaded while farming, and it's not like the guy who invaded is losing out on anything anyway (though if they do implement a softcore mode they probably should take into account the guys playing softcore aren't going to be good challenges for pvp oriented folks and therefore give less of a reward for defeating them.)

On a side note: what is with all the elemental weapon users? The attacks do so little damage and they don't seem to know how to back stab or even parry...

 

[Daystar Clarion]

Then don't farm while human.

Yes, being human increases the drop rate, but that's the price you pay.

Want to get stuff quicker, risk getting invaded.

 

[Colt47]

The invasions are fine, the only thing I'm advocating is an alternative to having an easy mode to the game, since none of the fights (even the invasions for that matter) are really that difficult or challenging. Obviously I'm part of the crowd that probably would like a softcore mode officially in the game that has a safety net of sorts for resource loss. Dieing and having to fight ones way through a series of enemies and traps again is already a consequence of dieing anyway. The item loss is something of an extra on top.

Also, I don't really view invasions as invasions as much as duels. Only difference is that the victor actually gets something... unlike some other games where it's mostly just for trolling people.

(Edit: Also kind of odd how everyone assumes that the person posting is raging about dieing to an invader. A byproduct of having numerous people go into a rage induced posting frenzy I suspect.)

 

[Twilight_guy]

So you advocating an "easier" to some extent mode, and instead of calling it an 'easy' mode (or easy PvP mode) you're using the term 'softcore' to make it more palatable. Feels like a political talk.

This seems very much like adjustable difficulty to me and Dark Souls players hate that. However the title makes me think of some really really bad Dark Souls softcore porn and that makes me laugh.

 

[StriderShinryu]

I don't see the issue. Being invaded is a mixture of you choosing to be human and choosing to plau online. Remove either or both of those factors and, there you go, instant easy mode.

 

[Darken12]

What the holy hell is everyone's problem. Holy shit. I've been staying out of the "Dark Souls easy mode" because I don't have any intention of playing it, but my goodness, this is absolutely ridiculous. Nobody is trying to take away your toys, people. Stop assuming that by adding something to a game, you are going to lose something else. More options are never, ever a bad thing (why? because they're optional, they're not mandatory, nobody's forcing you to pick them if you dislike them).

Clinging to your elitism and ego-stroking mechanisms, using games as a tool to feel superior to others and resisting any attempt to make games available to more audiences is being awful gamers. It's people like you that rag on about "fake nerds", "casual gamers", "fake nerd girls" or "gay options". Don't be a hateful, toxic gamer. If I want to spend 60 bucks or more and then "miss the point of the game" then fucking let me. If I want to use any game as an expensive coaster for my drinks, that's my choice. If I want to hang all my games from strings in front of a window so that they look pretty when they catch the sunlight, that's my prerogative because I paid for the fucking thing.

Stop. Policing. Other. People's. Fun.

 

[Colt47]

So you advocating an "easier" to some extent mode, and instead of calling it an 'easy' mode (or easy PvP mode) you're using the term 'softcore' to make it more palatable. Feels like a political talk.

This seems very much like adjustable difficulty to me and Dark Souls players hate that. However the title makes me think of some really really bad Dark Souls softcore porn and that makes me laugh.

You know, now that you mention it that title does sort of do that. Unfortunately I think porn + dark souls would mostly produce nightmare fuel. Wait, then what does that say about Terraria?

o o;

The thing is, it's not the same as an easy mode. Easy mode would be making it easier to make it from point A to B by weakening monsters, making bosses dumber, etc. The only thing this would do is limit the amount lost upon death, thus encouraging newer players to push on farther instead of getting overly frustrated and leaving the game. More players = more people to invade or play along with. Also, a lot of PC users are already playing this kind of mode by backing up saves and just reloading when they die, although I'd advocate for a mode that does involve at least some kind of loss, like half of the players gathered resources instead of all of them. (Primary issue with having someone keep all the resources if they died is that death becomes a free teleport instead of actually being a barrier.)

 

[Skops]

Just play offline, that's what I did. Dark Souls PvP connectivity is bullshit, I can't tell you how often someone would invade and while we were dueling he would teleport 30ft and backstab me, and again for the final blow.

If you're gunna play online human form, bring a friend at all times. If not, stay Hollow or play offline, the game is just more enjoyable that way.

 

[Setch Dreskar]

What the holy hell is everyone's problem. Holy shit. I've been staying out of the "Dark Souls easy mode" because I don't have any intention of playing it, but my goodness, this is absolutely ridiculous. Nobody is trying to take away your toys, people. Stop assuming that by adding something to a game, you are going to lose something else. More options are never, ever a bad thing (why? because they're optional, they're not mandatory, nobody's forcing you to pick them if you dislike them).

Clinging to your elitism and ego-stroking mechanisms, using games as a tool to feel superior to others and resisting any attempt to make games available to more audiences is being awful gamers. It's people like you that rag on about "fake nerds", "casual gamers", "fake nerd girls" or "gay options". Don't be a hateful, toxic gamer. If I want to spend 60 bucks or more and then "miss the point of the game" then fucking let me. If I want to use any game as an expensive coaster for my drinks, that's my choice. If I want to hang all my games from strings in front of a window so that they look pretty when they catch the sunlight, that's my prerogative because I paid for the fucking thing.

Stop. Policing. Other. People's. Fun.

For someone that hasn't played the game you certainly are doing a lot of raging about it. And throwing in other controversies because why exactly? Also we are resisting the idea that Dark Souls needs an easy mode to sell copies, and that the game needs to hold players by the hand or tell its story flat out. I prefer the idea of exploring, delving into the story and world and piecing together the history of Lordran.

Also as stated the reasons for not adding an Easy mode, or making things easier is not because of elitism but because of balance. Sure there is pride in knowing that the people that make it to Gywn overcame the same hardships as you, but how would you go about implementing mode differences when Dark Souls is not a single player RPG?

Do we have players on different difficulties segregated from one another, after all how would you make the game easier? Do easy players take less damage, if so will they take less damage at all times, even when they are invaded? Do they get more souls and therefore can level their gear and class faster then hardcore players? When a Gravelord Servant puts down an Eye of Death and one of the three servers it selects is a player on Easy, will it not put a curse on them? Will easy players be given preference in Co-op summoning while being protected from being invaded all together? So by your own words, why would we want an easy mode when it can directly hinder our fun or prevent us from playing the game all together (leveling Darkwraiths, Gravelords, Chaos Covenant, etc.) is that better?

So essentially you are coming into an issue just to vent it seems. A player's choice is their choice and Dark Souls gives you plenty of freedom, the game also isn't very difficult and only punishes people who don't pay attention or use caution. I am not against them trying to add an easier mode for people who don't seem to have patience (maybe add humiliating titles since they wimp out for lawls), but with Dark Souls being an interconnected world where a lot of the game is centered around interacting with other plays, usually aggressively, it will be one hell of a balancing act.

 

[Colt47]

Then don't farm while human.

Yes, being human increases the drop rate, but that's the price you pay.

Want to get stuff quicker, risk getting invaded.

No. Your humanity resource raises drop rate (50 at 1 humanity, 8 for each +1) by just having it in the counter. You don't have to be human. Being human does absolutely nothing to your stats.

and I backed up my save file again for 13th billion time.

Why? There's no reason to ever back up your save file in dark souls.

Primarily to guard against resource loss due to player intervention. I like dueling (assuming the guy isn't porting around like a crazy lunatic), just not losing stuff to an X factor outside of what is programmed into the environment.

 

[chadachada123]

I was just thinking about this today when a Black Phantom came into my game while farming in Arno Londo and I backed up my save file again for 13th billion time. People were previously talking about how it would be hard to implement an easy mode, but why not implement something akin to Terraria's Softcore, mediumcore, hardcore modes?

I have to say that Dark Souls seems a lot more enjoyable when I don't have to worry about losing all my stuff from getting invaded while farming, and it's not like the guy who invaded is losing out on anything anyway (though if they do implement a softcore mode they probably should take into account the guys playing softcore aren't going to be good challenges for pvp oriented folks and therefore give less of a reward for defeating them.)

On a side note: what is with all the elemental weapon users? The attacks do so little damage and they don't seem to know how to back stab or even parry...

Just having back-ups is already playing Dark Souls as it was not intended. Back-ups are really only useful for file corruption or some other critical error; Not for saving some (ultimately trivial amount of) souls.

Besides, the PC version HAS a dedicated dueling arena, making your next argument pretty moot.

http://darksoulswiki.wikispaces.com/Battle+of+Stoicism

No penalty for death.

 

[Burst6]

I was just thinking about this today when a Black Phantom came into my game while farming in Arno Londo and I backed up my save file again for 13th billion time. People were previously talking about how it would be hard to implement an easy mode, but why not implement something akin to Terraria's Softcore, mediumcore, hardcore modes?

I have to say that Dark Souls seems a lot more enjoyable when I don't have to worry about losing all my stuff from getting invaded while farming, and it's not like the guy who invaded is losing out on anything anyway (though if they do implement a softcore mode they probably should take into account the guys playing softcore aren't going to be good challenges for pvp oriented folks and therefore give less of a reward for defeating them.)

On a side note: what is with all the elemental weapon users? The attacks do so little damage and they don't seem to know how to back stab or even parry...

Why are you even farming in human mode? If you're so scared of losing souls you go through the hassle of backing up your saves, just go hollow. There's no penalty other than not being able to summon. I have never heard of anyone backing up their save files because they were scared of getting killed by invaders.


Also people use elemental weapons because they don't scale off of any stat. Just get the base required stats for the weapon and pump the rest of the points into Vit and End. You're a tank. I'm guessing you're in dark anor londo, so you're probably past the level where elemental weapons are effective (around the 120 mark).

 

[Twilight_guy]

So you advocating an "easier" to some extent mode, and instead of calling it an 'easy' mode (or easy PvP mode) you're using the term 'softcore' to make it more palatable. Feels like a political talk.

This seems very much like adjustable difficulty to me and Dark Souls players hate that. However the title makes me think of some really really bad Dark Souls softcore porn and that makes me laugh.

You know, now that you mention it that title does sort of do that. Unfortunately I think porn + dark souls would mostly produce nightmare fuel. Wait, then what does that say about Terraria?

o o;

The thing is, it's not the same as an easy mode. Easy mode would be making it easier to make it from point A to B by weakening monsters, making bosses dumber, etc. The only thing this would do is limit the amount lost upon death, thus encouraging newer players to push on farther instead of getting overly frustrated and leaving the game. More players = more people to invade or play along with. Also, a lot of PC users are already playing this kind of mode by backing up saves and just reloading when they die, although I'd advocate for a mode that does involve at least some kind of loss, like half of the players gathered resources instead of all of them. (Primary issue with having someone keep all the resources if they died is that death becomes a free teleport instead of actually being a barrier.)

I think you're got yourself a "No True Scotsman" argument. It's a mode designed to make something easier or less frustrating, it's an easier mode. An easier mode is easy mode. You can't just say its not X and all easy mode involve X because that's not what easy mode means. It's anything that makes the game easier, not just thing that mess with states and AI.

(I think Dark Souls already qualifies as hardcore masochism with how people tend to talk about it as hurting them but they like it.)

 

[Greyhamster]

Two tips:
1: Humanity raises drop rate (10 humanity gives max drop rate, which can be further enhanced with either the silver snake ring or the mimic chest hat) so you don't have to be in human form (There's actually no reason to be in human form. It costs a humanity to become human and you can be invaded)
2: Just log off PSN/Xboxlive/run steam in offline mode/turn off the internet on the device. Then you won't get invaded. Very useful if you are human.

 

[Colt47]

I was just thinking about this today when a Black Phantom came into my game while farming in Arno Londo and I backed up my save file again for 13th billion time. People were previously talking about how it would be hard to implement an easy mode, but why not implement something akin to Terraria's Softcore, mediumcore, hardcore modes?

I have to say that Dark Souls seems a lot more enjoyable when I don't have to worry about losing all my stuff from getting invaded while farming, and it's not like the guy who invaded is losing out on anything anyway (though if they do implement a softcore mode they probably should take into account the guys playing softcore aren't going to be good challenges for pvp oriented folks and therefore give less of a reward for defeating them.)

On a side note: what is with all the elemental weapon users? The attacks do so little damage and they don't seem to know how to back stab or even parry...

Just having back-ups is already playing Dark Souls as it was not intended. Back-ups are really only useful for file corruption or some other critical error; Not for saving some (ultimately trivial amount of) souls.

Besides, the PC version HAS a dedicated dueling arena, making your next argument pretty moot.

http://darksoulswiki.wikispaces.com/Battle+of+Stoicism

No penalty for death.

So what you are implying is that I shouldn't be backing up my saves and instead should disconnect from the network every time I play until I unlock the arena, then reconnect. That doesn't sound much better than what I'm already doing. And arguably playing offline is also not playing dark souls as intended.

Also this seems like it's getting a bit off track since only one person has actually commented on the idea for a safety net, while everyone else is too busy making assumptions on their end. Another idea would probably be an option to deal with pvp outside of said arena.

 

[loa]

Dark souls' pvp is hilariously broken in so many ways, it's not even funny.
An option to disable it without affecting co-op would be nice indeed.

 

[Darken12]

For someone that hasn't played the game you certainly are doing a lot of raging about it. And throwing in other controversies because why exactly? Also we are resisting the idea that Dark Souls needs an easy mode to sell copies, and that the game needs to hold players by the hand or tell its story flat out. I prefer the idea of exploring, delving into the story and world and piecing together the history of Lordran.

Nobody has said anything about needing. An easy mode is just an option. Sometimes people do that, they add options to pre-existent products because they might offer something positive to someone, not because it's strictly necessary. If we only made decisions that were strictly necessary, videogames wouldn't exist at all.

If you don't like hand-holding, don't turn it on.

Also as stated the reasons for not adding an Easy mode, or making things easier is not because of elitism but because of balance. Sure there is pride in knowing that the people that make it to Gywn overcame the same hardships as you, but how would you go about implementing mode differences when Dark Souls is not a single player RPG?

Do we have players on different difficulties segregated from one another, after all how would you make the game easier? Do easy players take less damage, if so will they take less damage at all times, even when they are invaded? Do they get more souls and therefore can level their gear and class faster then hardcore players? When a Gravelord Servant puts down an Eye of Death and one of the three servers it selects is a player on Easy, will it not put a curse on them? Will easy players be given preference in Co-op summoning while being protected from being invaded all together? So by your own words, why would we want an easy mode when it can directly hinder our fun or prevent us from playing the game all together (leveling Darkwraiths, Gravelords, Chaos Covenant, etc.) is that better?

Different realms/servers, off the top of my head. I'm sure game devs have their own ways of getting around that. After all, LoL and other DotA clones have champions that are considered hard to use and others that are considered easy, and yet it's primarily a multiplayer game where balance is key. Other multiplayer games (such as ye olde fighting games) have faced the same obstacles before and found a way around them. Game devs have their ways.

So essentially you are coming into an issue just to vent it seems. A player's choice is their choice and Dark Souls gives you plenty of freedom, the game also isn't very difficult and only punishes people who don't pay attention or use caution. I am not against them trying to add an easier mode for people who don't seem to have patience (maybe add humiliating titles since they wimp out for lawls), but with Dark Souls being an interconnected world where a lot of the game is centered around interacting with other plays, usually aggressively, it will be one hell of a balancing act.

Wow, you say "it's not about elitism" and then suggest the addition of humiliating titles for people who choose an easier mode. Way to defeat your own point there. Also, standard trivialising tactics ("it's not that difficult, it's your own fault if you find it hard, you're just impatient" and so on) there to de-legitimise the issue.

Let's not obscure the issue: This is elitism and ego-stroking. If games like Dark Souls were truly about the wonderful story, world to explore and innovative design choices, the argument for an easy mode would be even stronger, since by logic you'd want as many people to experience all these good things as possible. But nope, we all know this is about the difficulty and the ego-stroking of feeling special because you're part of an elite club who earned their place through sheer obstinate masochism.

I could go on a tirade about the psychology and sociology of oppression and social hierarchies, but I won't, as it would be largely irrelevant.

 

[death525]

Hmmm. I like where you are going, but maybe instead of it only applying to PvP we can apply it a bit broader.
In softcore, you dont lose anything upon death, but in normal you only lose souls and humanity like normal, and is you really want to be cruel have a hard difficulty where death means your save is gone.
The softcore thing would work since naturally they would have a higher Soul Level compared to the normal players so during coop and PvP softcore would tend to be joined with softcore while normal would tend to be more joined with normal.
This is coming from a guy who has played and absolutely loved Dark Souls. I am actually replaying right now.
However, I see no reason why they should not be allowed to implement a difficulty selector to allow more gamers to enjoy a great franchise. Actually it would be great to see if they could create the same sensee of soul crushing atmosphere even in an easy mode.