Das Paradox

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ShakyFiend

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All of the blues leave on that night. No other person leaves, they just know that their eyes aren't blue.
Alright, so nobody on the island can deduce their own eye color, but each blue (let's call this specific guy Bob) knows that there are 99 blues, and 100 browns, with his eye color being an unknown factor. Then, he knows that another blue can determine that there are 98 blues on the island, and 100 browns, with the unknown factors being Bob's eye color and this other blue's eye color (call him Terry). Bob figures that Terry will also make this deductive statement, coming to the conclusion that Terry's eyes are an unknown factor, some other blue knows his respective eyes are an unknown factor. Through that, Bob can determine that this blue knows for sure that there are at least 97 blues on the island, and 100 browns. From this, Bob can go through that same process all the way down to 0 (considering his knowledge started at 99 + unknown factor, then decreased to 98 + 2 unknown factors at the 99th blue, etc). Bob then knows, that the final person who's making this logical statement (knowing that everyone's sense of logic will go down this road) can in fact be Bob himself, considering his logical process is identical to all the other blues. So, Bob can deduce that there are at least 0 blues, and 100 browns. Considering there are 101 people left, 100 of them definitavely brown, Bob can figure out that his eyes are blue in order to satisfy the Guru's statement.

Bob also knows that every blue will also go through this process, and determine their true eye color, and they will all leave that night.
[/quote]

This is the 'official' solution, you got a lot closer than I did
Solution to the Blue Eyes puzzle

The answer is that on the 100th day, all 100 blue-eyed people will leave. It's pretty convoluted logic and it took me a while to believe the solution, but here's a rough guide to how to get there. Note -- while the text of the puzzle is very carefully worded to be as clear and unambiguous as possible (thanks to countless discussions with confused readers), this solution is pretty thrown-together. It's correct, but the explanation/wording might not be the best. If you're really confused by something, let me know.

If you consider the case of just one blue-eyed person on the island, you can show that he obviously leaves the first night, because he knows he's the only one the Guru could be talking about. He looks around and sees no one else, and knows he should leave. So: [THEOREM 1] If there is one blue-eyed person, he leaves the first night.

If there are two blue-eyed people, they will each look at the other. They will each realize that "if I don't have blue eyes [HYPOTHESIS 1], then that guy is the only blue-eyed person. And if he's the only person, by THEOREM 1 he will leave tonight." They each wait and see, and when neither of them leave the first night, each realizes "My HYPOTHESIS 1 was incorrect. I must have blue eyes." And each leaves the second night.

So: [THEOREM 2]: If there are two blue-eyed people on the island, they will each leave the 2nd night.

If there are three blue-eyed people, each one will look at the other two and go through a process similar to the one above. Each considers the two possibilities -- "I have blue eyes" or "I don't have blue eyes." He will know that if he doesn't have blue eyes, there are only two blue-eyed people on the island -- the two he sees. So he can wait two nights, and if no one leaves, he knows he must have blue eyes -- THEOREM 2 says that if he didn't, the other guys would have left. When he sees that they didn't, he knows his eyes are blue. All three of them are doing this same process, so they all figure it out on day 3 and leave.

This induction can continue all the way up to THEOREM 99, which each person on the island in the problem will of course know immediately. Then they'll each wait 99 days, see that the rest of the group hasn't gone anywhere, and on the 100th night, they all leave.

Before you email me to argue or question: This solution is correct. My explanation may not be the clearest, and it's very difficult to wrap your head around (at least, it was for me), but the facts of it are accurate. I've talked the problem over with many logic/math professors, worked through it with students, and analyzed from a number of different angles. The answer is correct and proven, even if my explanations aren't as clear as they could be. If you're not convinced, you can contact me (info available on my website) for further discussion. If you're satisfied with this answer, here are a couple questions that may force you to further explore the structure of the puzzle:
What is the quantified piece of information that the Guru provides that each person did not already have?
Each person knows, from the beginning, that there are no less than 99 blue-eyed people on the island. How, then, is considering the 1 and 2-person cases relevant, if they can all rule them out immediately as possibilities?
Why do they have to wait 99 nights if, on the first 98 or so of these nights, they're simply verifying something that they already know?
These are just to give you something to think about if you enjoyed the main solution. They have answers, but please don't email me asking for them. They're meant to prompt thought on the solution, and each can be answered by considering the solution from the right angle, in the right terms. There's a different way to think of the solution involving hypotheticals inside hypotheticals, and it is much more concrete, if a little harder to discuss. But in it lies the key to answering the four questions above.
 

ShakyFiend

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Jun 10, 2009
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ShakyFiend said:
All of the blues leave on that night. No other person leaves, they just know that their eyes aren't blue.
Alright, so nobody on the island can deduce their own eye color, but each blue (let's call this specific guy Bob) knows that there are 99 blues, and 100 browns, with his eye color being an unknown factor. Then, he knows that another blue can determine that there are 98 blues on the island, and 100 browns, with the unknown factors being Bob's eye color and this other blue's eye color (call him Terry). Bob figures that Terry will also make this deductive statement, coming to the conclusion that Terry's eyes are an unknown factor, some other blue knows his respective eyes are an unknown factor. Through that, Bob can determine that this blue knows for sure that there are at least 97 blues on the island, and 100 browns. From this, Bob can go through that same process all the way down to 0 (considering his knowledge started at 99 + unknown factor, then decreased to 98 + 2 unknown factors at the 99th blue, etc). Bob then knows, that the final person who's making this logical statement (knowing that everyone's sense of logic will go down this road) can in fact be Bob himself, considering his logical process is identical to all the other blues. So, Bob can deduce that there are at least 0 blues, and 100 browns. Considering there are 101 people left, 100 of them definitavely brown, Bob can figure out that his eyes are blue in order to satisfy the Guru's statement.

Bob also knows that every blue will also go through this process, and determine their true eye color, and they will all leave that night.
This is the 'official' solution, you got a lot closer than I did
Solution to the Blue Eyes puzzle

The answer is that on the 100th day, all 100 blue-eyed people will leave. It's pretty convoluted logic and it took me a while to believe the solution, but here's a rough guide to how to get there. Note -- while the text of the puzzle is very carefully worded to be as clear and unambiguous as possible (thanks to countless discussions with confused readers), this solution is pretty thrown-together. It's correct, but the explanation/wording might not be the best. If you're really confused by something, let me know.

If you consider the case of just one blue-eyed person on the island, you can show that he obviously leaves the first night, because he knows he's the only one the Guru could be talking about. He looks around and sees no one else, and knows he should leave. So: [THEOREM 1] If there is one blue-eyed person, he leaves the first night.

If there are two blue-eyed people, they will each look at the other. They will each realize that "if I don't have blue eyes [HYPOTHESIS 1], then that guy is the only blue-eyed person. And if he's the only person, by THEOREM 1 he will leave tonight." They each wait and see, and when neither of them leave the first night, each realizes "My HYPOTHESIS 1 was incorrect. I must have blue eyes." And each leaves the second night.

So: [THEOREM 2]: If there are two blue-eyed people on the island, they will each leave the 2nd night.

If there are three blue-eyed people, each one will look at the other two and go through a process similar to the one above. Each considers the two possibilities -- "I have blue eyes" or "I don't have blue eyes." He will know that if he doesn't have blue eyes, there are only two blue-eyed people on the island -- the two he sees. So he can wait two nights, and if no one leaves, he knows he must have blue eyes -- THEOREM 2 says that if he didn't, the other guys would have left. When he sees that they didn't, he knows his eyes are blue. All three of them are doing this same process, so they all figure it out on day 3 and leave.

This induction can continue all the way up to THEOREM 99, which each person on the island in the problem will of course know immediately. Then they'll each wait 99 days, see that the rest of the group hasn't gone anywhere, and on the 100th night, they all leave.

Before you email me to argue or question: This solution is correct. My explanation may not be the clearest, and it's very difficult to wrap your head around (at least, it was for me), but the facts of it are accurate. I've talked the problem over with many logic/math professors, worked through it with students, and analyzed from a number of different angles. The answer is correct and proven, even if my explanations aren't as clear as they could be. If you're not convinced, you can contact me (info available on my website) for further discussion. If you're satisfied with this answer, here are a couple questions that may force you to further explore the structure of the puzzle:
What is the quantified piece of information that the Guru provides that each person did not already have?
Each person knows, from the beginning, that there are no less than 99 blue-eyed people on the island. How, then, is considering the 1 and 2-person cases relevant, if they can all rule them out immediately as possibilities?
Why do they have to wait 99 nights if, on the first 98 or so of these nights, they're simply verifying something that they already know?
These are just to give you something to think about if you enjoyed the main solution. They have answers, but please don't email me asking for them. They're meant to prompt thought on the solution, and each can be answered by considering the solution from the right angle, in the right terms. There's a different way to think of the solution involving hypotheticals inside hypotheticals, and it is much more concrete, if a little harder to discuss. But in it lies the key to answering the four questions above.
[/quote]
 

DrummerM

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Nov 24, 2008
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Not sure if it's been said yet, but the one where you strap buttered toast to a cat's back with the butter facing up.

Anti-gravity!
 

legion431

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Ldude893 said:
You've got a sword that can penetrate any shield and a shield invincible to any sword or sharp object. What happens when your special sword hits your special shield?
What happens when an unstoppable force meets an immovable object. They contradict each other so therefore they either cannot exist or something much worse would happen.
 

automatron

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Apr 21, 2010
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A good one that'll blow your mind.
It's called the shrimp paradox, and it's known as one of the most baffling paradoxes ever invented. (and god help anyone who's ninja'ed me here)
"If this statement is not a shrimp, then it is a paradox"
It's a paradox because of the fact that it makes perfect sense, except paradoxes don't make perfect sense.
 

bad rider

The prodigal son of a goat boy
Dec 23, 2007
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For fun, I like to go into dictionaries lookup paradox, tip-ex out the definition and replace it with the word "paradox"
 

bad rider

The prodigal son of a goat boy
Dec 23, 2007
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legopelle said:
artanis_neravar said:
Redingold said:
artanis_neravar said:
Redingold said:
artanis_neravar said:
deathandtaxes said:
artanis_neravar said:
There is no life in the universe (operating under the assumption that there are an infinite number of planets) There are an infinite number of planets in the universe, however we know that no all planet have life, therefore only a finite number of planets in the universe have life. to figure out the percentage of planets with life you need to divide a finite number by infinity. For simplicity sake I'm going to use 1 for the finite number and % to represent infinity. in order to solve 1/% you must take the limit of 1/x as x approaches infinity, as x gets large 1/x gets smaller (1/4 is smaller then 1/2). The limit of 1/x as x approaches infinity is 0 therefore there is no life in the universe and everyone you meet is just a figment of your imagination.
(From the Hitchhikers Guide to Galaxy I just used calculus to prove it)
:) Fortunately the universe is finite.
Prove it
It started out as a point, and has expanded at a finite rate for 13.7 billion years. It cannot have grown to infinity in this time. Besides, even if it was infinite, you'd still be wrong, because infinity (the number of planets) minus any finite number (the number of known uninhabited planets) is still infinity (the number of potentially inhabited planets left).
Even if there are an infinite number of populated planets, the denominator is still a large (or faster growing) infinity and my math still works out
Ahah. No. All the infinities involved are the same size. Infinity doesn't change size simply by multiplying it by something or adding something to it. You can get different sizes of infinity, but not in this scenario.
Um...yes they do it's basic calculus
You're not going at this right. It's not infinite just as a line on the surface of a sphere. It just appears so. Just because you can travel an infinite distance doesn't make the space infinitive.
Like a mobious strip! (Yay! I contributed.)
 

BioHazardMan

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Sep 22, 2009
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Bertrand Russell's Barber Paradox

Suppose there is a town with just one male barber; and that every man in the town keeps himself clean-shaven: some by shaving themselves, some by attending the barber. It seems reasonable to imagine that the barber obeys the following rule: He shaves all and only those men in town who do not shave themselves.

Does the barber shave himself?
 

Shoqiyqa

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Sgt. Sykes said:
My favorite is not really a paradox, but statistics that blows your mind.

Imagine you are in a contest where you can win a car. All you need to do is to chose the right panel - you've got three panels to chose from. Once you point at one panel, someone (who knows behind which panel the car is) reveals one of the other two panels. Now you can either stick to the panel you've selected originaly, or select the remaining one. Which one will you chose?
We have had this thread already. [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.199542-Poll-Lets-make-a-Deal-Statistics-and-math-question-Most-people-get-this-wrong?page=1] You switch.
 

Shoqiyqa

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Sgt. Sykes said:
OK some other not-realy-a-paradox, but a mathematical weirdness:

Three people enter a motel and request a room. The room costs 30 dollars, so every guest pays 10 dollars.

In the morning, the hotel manager realizes the room actually costs only 25 dollars. Being unable to split 5 dollars evenly, he decided to give back 3 dollars to the guest (1 to each guest) and he kept the other 2.

So, each guest basically paid 9 dollars.

That's 3 x 9 = 27 dollars paid by guests.

The manager kept 2 dollars. 27 + 2 = 29 dollars.

Where is the missing dollar?
Second to last line's the decoy.

27 - 2 = 25, the cost of the room. You've put the 2 he kept on the wrong side of the 27 they paid. It's the difference between what they paid and what he should have charged, not the difference between what he did charge and what they paid.
 

Shoqiyqa

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Ldude893 said:
You've got a sword that can penetrate any shield and a shield invincible to any sword or sharp object. What happens when your special sword hits your special shield?
The sword turns into a blunt bullet and penetrates the shield ... or penetrates the shield but does not conquer or subdue it.
 

Shoqiyqa

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deathandtaxes said:
I like the paradox of separation.

one way of describing it goes something like this. Draw two dots on a new piece of paper, having done so you can see that the dots are separate. However the dots are only separated by the space on the paper and they are on the same piece of paper, therefore they are still connected by that which separates them.

In sociology we talk about this as a reason as to why all notions of binary opposition in humans (black vs white thinking) are wrong. As difference can only be talked about in relation to similarity as you can only say something is different if you have something to compare it to, a similar context thus in truth all things in the realm of the social are similar but only by degree's.
..... and that's why sociology doesn't get to hang out in the science department with the biologists, chemists, physicists and programmers any more.
 

Shoqiyqa

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artanis_neravar said:
DSK- said:
"All Cretans are liars" or something like that :D
It has to be a Cretan who say it lol
"All Cretins always lie," said the Cretin (and there's the origin of the insult, folks, Greek mainlander discrimination against islanders). The weakness here is that people assume that:

if it's true, then he must be lying;
if he's lying, it's not true;
if it's not true, then no Cretin ever lies;
if no Cretin ever lies, it's true

... and so on in an infinite loop, but line three is crud. "Some Cretins sometimes lie." Yes, he was lying, but that doesn't mean no Cretin ever lies.

As for the arrow not changing shape or length or whatever in the air ...

 

Shoqiyqa

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artanis_neravar said:
Oscar90 said:
Given the vast universe it's virtually impossible that there aren't several species that have figured out how to traverse between galaxies. It is also near impossible that they wouldn't at least want some data on other species. It is also near impossible that at least one of them wouldn't want to either enslave us or befriend us.

So where the fuck are they?
They have a lot of planets to explore, maybe they just haven't made it here. Or they have seen how destructive we are now and are slightly afraid
Second spoiler tag: "The Gift Of Mercy" [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.211546-The-scary-thread-76-days?page=23#8651038]

Please read the entire thread from beginning to end, including opening all spoiler tags and watching all videos, before posting to it. We wouldn't want any repeats, now, would we?
 

bombadilillo

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Ranorak said:
Lizardon said:
I'm not sure if this counts as a paradox or not, but it's an interesting thought

Lets say you have a boat. As parts of the boat wear out, you replace them with new parts. Eventually, you have replaced every part of the boat. Is it still the same boat?
Better yet.
your body now doesn't have any of the molecules left from when you were born.
Are you still you?
Well your neurons in your central nervous system are the same for your whole life, and its generally considered to be the important bit.
 

GrizzlerBorno

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Sep 2, 2010
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FalloutJack said:


I've done this joke before. It's still funny as hell.
Whatever the joke is, It's not very obvious. Plus the pictures small. What am I looking at?

Also, is THAT the joke? That people try to find something? Cause that's super lame.
 

FalloutJack

Bah weep grah nah neep ninny bom
Nov 20, 2008
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GrizzlerBorno said:
FalloutJack said:


I've done this joke before. It's still funny as hell.
Whatever the joke is, It's not very obvious. Plus the pictures small. What am I looking at?

Also, is THAT the joke? That people try to find something? Cause that's super lame.
Gah, there's always someone...

It's a PAIR OF DOCKS.

*Shakes head*
 

GrizzlerBorno

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FalloutJack said:
GrizzlerBorno said:
FalloutJack said:


I've done this joke before. It's still funny as hell.
Whatever the joke is, It's not very obvious. Plus the pictures small. What am I looking at?

Also, is THAT the joke? That people try to find something? Cause that's super lame.
Gah, there's always someone...

It's a PAIR OF DOCKS.

*Shakes head*
Well that was ambiguous. Are you saying that I got it right? Or that someone always guesses that even though it's wrong?
I still don't see anything Paradoxical about this picture...
 

Condor219

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Sep 14, 2010
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GrizzlerBorno said:
FalloutJack said:
GrizzlerBorno said:
FalloutJack said:


I've done this joke before. It's still funny as hell.
Whatever the joke is, It's not very obvious. Plus the pictures small. What am I looking at?

Also, is THAT the joke? That people try to find something? Cause that's super lame.
Gah, there's always someone...

It's a PAIR OF DOCKS.

*Shakes head*
Well that was ambiguous. Are you saying that I got it right? Or that someone always guesses that even though it's wrong?
I still don't see anything Paradoxical about this picture...
Please tell be that you were being sarcastic.

Oh, and FalloutJack, it's a nice effort, but I can only respond to that pun with this.