Data Limits: How can we break the ISP stranglehold on bandwidth

[Liatach]

I'm starting this thread here hoping to tap into the gaming brainstrust that the escapist encapsulates.

I'm looking for ideas on how we can encourage/force bandwidth providers to acknowledge that data really shouldn't be what they are charging for, speed fine, but data No.

A breakdown of the problem:
In Australia data limits are the norm, and i don't mean the 250gig variety that caused so much fuss in the blogosphere recently (Comcast). I'm talking major ISPs in this part of the world offering so called broadband plans starting at one to five gig a month for $20 to $50, all the while fully aware that new customers operating systems are going to breach that limit running updates in the background.

I have a $70 a month cable plan from Optus which grants me 15gig and limits my speed to 15kbs once that limit is breached. Which it is every damn month. I am swapping to an ADSL 2+ 60gig plan for $80 a month as soon as i can afford the $350 it will cost me to break contract with optus and get connected to iinet. I suspect that even that will not satisfy me, tho its a definite improvement.

What i really want are some good ideas on how we can encourage our ISP's to recognize that at the same time all our media (especially our games) are encouraging us to consume data they (the ISPs) are punishing us for doing so.

Data limits have a number of negative flow on effects including but not limited too:
-open access WiFi is rare and limited here, something i noticed in Europe is wifi is everywhere.
-Data limits slowdown uptake so fewer people are signing up which encourages providers to keep prices higher to cover costs and make profit.
-Limits the introduction of new technologies, We were a long way behind the rest of the world in the introduction of XBox Live etc. And we are unlikely to see the Kindle here anytime in the near future as Amazon wants unlimited data available for it.

So any ideas?

 

[meatloaf231]

Fire always works.

 

[The Wooster]

Pitchforks too.

 

[Liatach]

Ah the "Burn the Witch" approach
i like

 

[Eyclonus]

Theres also the domestic terrorist approach.

 

[keyton777]

well me personally i would douse their cars in acid to make them all grey and weird looking (or just not there (depends on the acid), you could just go find teh house of one of the highest ppl in the ISP industry and ask them (at gunpoint if you wish) why is there a data limit, and if possible how you could fix it then and there with a few words.


you may now begin to call me crazy and a bit of a lunatic (my friends do (and all i do is run around in halo or CoD4 doing things that normally are IMPOSSIBLE in those games)



"humans use the word "impossible" far to much" quote from i forget who but i like it

 

[keyton777]

and lets avoid being the unibomber plz ppl that didnt work out so well for said person

 

[keyton777]

and lets avoid being the unibomber plz ppl that didnt work out so well for said person

hes dead right?

 

[Liatach]

i think so,

and tho i appreciate the vehemence, ideas on how to actually influence corporate decision making on this issue would be really good too

 

[stompy]

You do know in Australia that the internet providers either offer you data limits... actually you've always got a data limit, but it either comes down to paying extra for everything over the download limit, or getting capped. I myself prefer the capped option, simply because I don't like spending the extra money.

As for the question... what do you propose? I'm a little confused by what you're asking, and well, what alternatives are there? If you want to remove data limits, what do you suggest to the ISPs so they still make a profit?

It's not that I'm opposed to what you're saying, but that I'm not too sure how this is going to work.

 

[Retoru]

The ISPs are still maintaining a profit margin without data limits, otherwise we'd already have them or have no internet at all. The reason for the cap from Comcast is because the small minority disrupts service to the majority with their excessive downloading. It's just how cable internet access works, it's a distributed bandwidth network, it works great as long as you don't have too many users on one trunk or don't have a couple power users, but since the amount of bandwidth is finite per trunk once it's used up it causes slowdown for everyone on that trunk. DSL is another beast altogether, bandwidth is per line instead of being distributed, so a DSL user can max out his bandwidth all day and not affect anyone else using the service.

The only real complaint I have with caps is that utilities in general are moving toward unlimited plans, not caps. Caps are a thing of the past and this sort of move is really a step backwards. One could also argue that cable companies that are planning to cap bandwidth are doing so to protect their interests in their content delivery cable divisions. With a bandwidth cap a user is going to be much less likely to utilize an online service to get HD video and more likely to partake in whatever offering the cable company they have their internet through offers.

 

[Liatach]

Yes of course Stompy, i'm on capped plan which as i say i breach every month, at which point they slow me down but remove the data limit such that i can do a few large files without affecting my quota, provided i dont want to do anything else online at the same time (15kbs is unbelievably sloooooow)if i were uncapped i would endup paying hundreds more a month, some providers charge as much as 50c a meg over the data limit, and they all slow you down or cut you off eventually.

my understanding of the problem is this: in much of the rest of the world data limits are either non existent or so large as to be ignorable. I believe that data limits are limiting Australians capacity to fully take advantage of our digital revolution, and that this limiting will actually do harm to the competitiveness of our economy and education systems. On a more selfish level, I'm happy to buy games and film online in fact i really want to be able to do it more often but i hate being stuck with slow internet for half the month when i do.

I'm at a bit of a loss on how to do it, but i'm sure there is some quite simple way to encourage ISP's to lift or altogether remove limits, and i'm pretty sure the first ones to do so will make a ton of money from new customers as well.

Also just hoping to spur some discussion on the topic, thanks for the contribution

 

[geldonyetich]

Those caps are in place because if they weren't you'd have all your bandwidth sucked up by your neighbor's relentless illegal downloads. You can lobby to get them removed, but don't expect better bandwidth if you're successful. If anything, you'll be complaining even more when your 250kbps falls to 25kbps.

In this particular case, you might have wanted to shop around some more. Sounds like Optus doesn't have the bandwidth to spare.

 

[Axe_2_Gr1nd]

Here is a Little education for u:

As most of the Net is not in AU there is a large amount of traffic that has to go via the Submarine cable network:
http://www.telegeography.com/products/map_cable/TG_CableMap_1200x1600.jpg
Notice there is about 5 connection out of AU?!
2 to the US & 3 to Asia & one purposed connection.
here is the site and network details of one of these carriers:
http://www.southerncrosscables.com/public/Backhaul/default.cfm
If from there you click on the left for AU you will see a list of company's that use this service.

So chances are if you are hitting a US server or source you are going thru one of these guys at some point and using this network.
read about it, it's all X'y stuff.
Hense why in AU you will alway pay some sort of data limit, due to the fact that we are on an inland.

enjoy

 

[Liatach]

Nice links thank you,
i believe there is another major connection being built in the north, coming in from Indonesia.
and yeah that does present major issues,
still any ideas on how to encourage more data generosity are welcome here.

 

[Axe_2_Gr1nd]

I've been a long time user of Internode, while they are not as cheap as they use to be there products are good and there service is great.

there are bigger things to worry about atm:
great firewall of China is coming to au
www.nocleanfeed.com

it's very scary & it's already been funded for the next 5 years! 128 mill over 5 years.
image every thing that is on tv atm after 8:30pm, well that is the sort of content they are looking to sensor!

enjoy
ps: sry on the high jack :S

 

[Liatach]

Good Lord, the very idea, i heard about this a while back but i thought they had been forced to acknowledge just how ridiculous a proposal it really is. Ah well the stupidity of politicians should never be underestimated.
i'm taking the subject up with www.getup.org.au I'm pretty sure we can stop this nonsense.

on the other note yes ive heard internode are pretty good, for a long time telstra and optus were the only real options around here and optus's cable was the fastest but iinet and their ADSL 2+ are deffinetly getting my business soon.

 

[stompy]

Actually, how does the net work in other countries? Sorry, but I've only know the piss-poor internet that is found in Australia. I have an inkling that some of you guys have fibre-optics, but how does it work for the rest of the world?

 

[kinch]

The real problem with .au is that there are only 2 major providers (one of which doesn't cover anywhere near as much as the other) of major infrastructure that the internet needs. I'm not just talking about those submarine pipes (although obviously they factor in too) but all the communications and networking stuff. The two companies that run this are greedy bastards that will charge for users to use this service. They paid the initial costs to build and install that infrastructure. They have to regain the costs. Yes, once they've made back what it cost, they *should* switch over to a less demanding payment structure, like say, a low flat rate for unlimited monthly use, but they wont. Why? Because, as said above, they're Greedy Bastards. Profits mean nice big yearly bonuses for the executives and board members. We're talking bonuses in the realm of up to tens of million of dollars. Now, those executives could change everything so that they get less profits, and have no data limits (or a flat rate for rental of ports/lines). This will cut into their bonuses though. Which path do you think they'll take? I'll give you 3 guesses

tl;dr: It sux, but they want the profits it generates, and there ain't nothing that will change that, ever.

 

[Jamash]

Could it be something to do with the idea that more data available = more piracy & downloading of music & films etc.?

By imposing data limits the ISP are helping their "sister" companies by limiting the amount people can pirate their property.

It's probably very rare for a ISP to be a stand alone company, they're probably part of a larger group which includes music & film companies, (isn't AOL connected to Time-Warner?) so they have a vested interest in limiting piracy.

I don't really know, but that's my wild stab in the dark.