David Jaffe Calls on Game Critics to Get Tougher

Kahunaburger

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adamtm said:
Kahunaburger said:
adamtm said:
Kahunaburger said:
adamtm said:
You should discount all people that are trying to entertain with their reviews,

snip

Sadly there is no Roger Ebert in the gaming industry.
Well, Roger Ebert's pretty entertaining - people read his column and watch his show because they want to, not because he's any more or less trustworthy than any other reviewer out there.

I've seen some reviewers in games I think are criticizing to a higher standard than usual - Yahtzee is actually pretty good most of the time, and Abbie Heppe had some good ones. In fact, she was raged at pretty hard by fanboys for being a critic (versus a reviewer) when discussing Other M.
You need to agree that Ebert is a notch above Angry Joe that reviewed Dragon Age 2 and his closing words in the review were (paraphrasing):

"yes the game has problems, mostly in art-design, story-telling, lacking customizability and exploration, but hell its Bioware and Dragon Age! 9/10!"

I still want to know why anyone would consider Yahtzee a reviewer or critic, can you link me to an actual review you find was well done?
Notice how I didn't cite Angry Joe there. For Yahtzee "reviews" (vs. him just riffing, which he seems to do more often these days) I seem to recall Bioshock, Arkham Asylum, and Minecraft being pretty good. Any review where he talks about what he likes and doesn't get distracted by nitpicks is usually better. And Extra Punctuation is occasionally pretty good for criticism of a particular aspect of a game.
How does this make a good reviewer/critic if he gets distracted by nitpicks? Where is the analysis?
EP is a column about just everything that comes to his mind, he now did E3, yay?

If i would have to define what level i expect from a review id say: Extra Credits just for a specific game instead of concepts.

EC conveys a great deal of analysis in their videos, if that were applied to a specific game (they brushed this when they discussed God Of War for example), it would be perfect.
Yahtzee is an entertainer first and foremost. Occasionally he does some pretty good criticism, so I see these reviews of examples of Yahtzee as a good critic. This does not imply or require that everything he does is criticism.

Yeah, EC is pretty good, but I think their strength would probably not be criticism. It's more of a lecture series that uses individual games as discussion subjects than anything.
 

adamtm

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Aug 22, 2010
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Kahunaburger said:
adamtm said:
Kahunaburger said:
adamtm said:
Kahunaburger said:
adamtm said:
You should discount all people that are trying to entertain with their reviews,

snip

Sadly there is no Roger Ebert in the gaming industry.
Well, Roger Ebert's pretty entertaining - people read his column and watch his show because they want to, not because he's any more or less trustworthy than any other reviewer out there.

I've seen some reviewers in games I think are criticizing to a higher standard than usual - Yahtzee is actually pretty good most of the time, and Abbie Heppe had some good ones. In fact, she was raged at pretty hard by fanboys for being a critic (versus a reviewer) when discussing Other M.
You need to agree that Ebert is a notch above Angry Joe that reviewed Dragon Age 2 and his closing words in the review were (paraphrasing):

"yes the game has problems, mostly in art-design, story-telling, lacking customizability and exploration, but hell its Bioware and Dragon Age! 9/10!"

I still want to know why anyone would consider Yahtzee a reviewer or critic, can you link me to an actual review you find was well done?
Notice how I didn't cite Angry Joe there. For Yahtzee "reviews" (vs. him just riffing, which he seems to do more often these days) I seem to recall Bioshock, Arkham Asylum, and Minecraft being pretty good. Any review where he talks about what he likes and doesn't get distracted by nitpicks is usually better. And Extra Punctuation is occasionally pretty good for criticism of a particular aspect of a game.
How does this make a good reviewer/critic if he gets distracted by nitpicks? Where is the analysis?
EP is a column about just everything that comes to his mind, he now did E3, yay?

If i would have to define what level i expect from a review id say: Extra Credits just for a specific game instead of concepts.

EC conveys a great deal of analysis in their videos, if that were applied to a specific game (they brushed this when they discussed God Of War for example), it would be perfect.
Yahtzee is an entertainer first and foremost. Occasionally he does some pretty good criticism, so I see these reviews of examples of Yahtzee as a good critic. This does not imply or require that everything he does is criticism.

Yeah, EC is pretty good, but I think their strength would probably not be criticism. It's more of a lecture series that uses individual games as discussion subjects than anything.
I didnt say they were good critics, just that the quality of their statements is what i expect from a review.
 

WouldYouKindly

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Apr 17, 2011
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The hilarity is that this guy is the guy who developed God of War, which has seen very little change as the series has progressed.

Instead of allowing the gaming industry to clone games, we should start replacing all game reviewers with clones of Yahtzee.
 

Frotality

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i think customers need to get tougher...the press has to make money, the press are offered what are essentially kickbacks, the press are pressured to get commentary out first more than make it quality...what god damn excuse do we have? its not like reviewers have that much influence; hell, movie critics dont have that kind of influence; the gaming community has so little respect for reviewers that we trust the cynical britsh humor more than actual reviews. but if we dont buy something, THAT has influence.
 

ItsAPaul

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Psst, no one listens to reviewers. It's fairly obvious most of them are paid off, since even Escapist gave a good review of Dragon Age 2 for some reason.
 

BehattedWanderer

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Jun 24, 2009
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Read as "David Jaffe wants more critics and reviewers to be Yahtzee". Odd. Reminded of that old, old, new addage: "If you have eaten shit all your life, when presented something that is not shit, you will still be inclined towards getting the shit." Especially if that shit is high definition, well polished, and smeary. That's how some seem to like it.

Though, imagine a "do not buy" commercial. An ad campaign smearing the worst of the shit, across the board. Calling things out for not innovating, for not advancing, for not pushing the bill in any way. Not to be confused with a games that take what they had before, polish, refine, and make the damn quintessence of their own wants as a game, but the games that outright copy something else.
 

Riobux

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When I review (sadly, stupidly rarely these days, but I'm hoping to review Mount & Blade: With Fire & Sword soon), I do tend to give credit to games that give a feeling of freshness. Too many times, I play games these days and come away with a feeling of how stale the general game is, this is despite the game only being out a week or two. The general Call Of Duty/Battlefield/Medal Of Honour game types are the most stale, but you also get the "one man saves the world" games which have been run into the floor and MMORPGs which use the same or similar formula every time.

It was only recently that I ended up ranting about how MMORPGs lack any real imagination in terms of races. They each have the classic "human", "elf" and "orc" races, with minor tweaks to avoid law-suits. They each encourage team work, something that barely works due to how anti-social the cocks on these MMORPGs are. They each have two sides which are pit against each other for some inane reason. They each try to create a story to make you feel like a hero, but the immersion ends when you remember there are millions of other players who are following the exact same storyline, one which is a linear as a tunnel. They each use the same general array of classes, almost scared to step away and try something new. They also do the system where you stand still, looking sort of proud of yourself and attack the enemy on the spot, ignoring the guy clubbing them in the face. Sure, you could argue that some MMORPGs do something new in each of what I said, but the key word was "some". Obviously I'm ignoring games like City Of Heroes which abandoned the fantasy genre, did well, got drunk and threw up Champions Online. However, the ones which do fantasy, usually do about 75% of everything I just said. Some have an excuse since their source material says they have to put those in, like World Of Warcraft and Lord Of The Rings Online, but games like Rift have zero excuse.

For the record, All Points Bulletin was a general flop but at least it was fresh.
 

samwise970

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Um, just because Battlezone was in a tank doesn't mean it was a turret shooter. It had full control of movement of the tank, and should actually be called a full blown first person shooter. A turret shooter is where the player only fires the weapon and is either stationary or on rails. I'm surprised that someone made this mistake (wasn't clear whether Jaffe said this or the author), because this is pretty well known.
 

Iron Lightning

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Oct 19, 2009
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Imp Emissary said:
Iron Lightning said:
He is absolutely correct and I'm only commenting here to polish the knob of a person who extolls the value of innovation.
<_< But...What if they were a woman?

Then what would you do?
Well, women still have a knob that I can polish, it's just smaller, more sensitive, and differently located.
 

sb666

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we need more critics like yathzee instead of the ones who give every game a 9 out of 10
 

Gennadios

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What the gaming press first needs to do is to stop hiring monkeys to review their games. Or maybe let the said monkeys throw their feces at the games that deserve it.

I'm not 100% sure whether the glut of glowing reviews for really mediocre games should be blamed on the publishers or the writers atm.
 

Manji187

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Snowy Rainbow said:
People make what sells and people buy what they enjoy. I see no problem in that.
Not quite. In this day and age "people" (businesses) try to ensure that what they make will sell (you know, through marketing and advertising), regardless of quality and actual need (as opposed to desire). Also, nowadays demand (as in supply/ demand) is created. People are influenced to want all kinds of stuff.
 

ThreeKneeNick

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How much can criticism do when you have people saying who needs innovation and that it's okay to just make more of the same if the same in question is already good. Abundant examples in http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/7.291516-Analyst-Calls-The-Old-Republic-a-WoW-Clone .

On the other hand, the press doesn't want to be critical, because they don't want to piss anyone (fans of existing properties especially) off. If you want a reader to return, you better write what he wants to read, and he doesn't want to read that a game he was excited about sucks! It's a multi-layered problem and all you can do about it is point it out, but it will not cease to exist.
 

samsonguy920

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Considering Jaffe's resume, which has all of two titles that can be recognized, this guy is doing nothing but talking out of his ass. I wouldn't give any recognition to what he says. If anything it sounds like he feels he needs motivation from someone else other than him to get shit done. For one, that just reeks of laziness. For two, that tends to only result in losing all rights to your properties to a big publisher.

As for Zero Punctuation, it is Editorial Satire. It is not a true review process nor should be considered such. If you are basing all of your purchases on what Yahtzee puts out in ZP, then you are on a fool's errand.
 

GeorgW

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Aug 27, 2010
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Hehe, typical Jaffe. I like him,he speaks his mind no matter what. It's funny that he's making a remake of a 15 year old game, but I'd agree that it does bring something new to the current market.
He's right, reviewers are way too nice. And Logan is right as well, it won't matter when it comes to sales.