I never used the word offense, or other forms of it. I'll get to that when tasteless looses meaning. >.> What? you expect me to have a thesarus handy?!!
... Goddamnit DC! *Facepalm* This is why we can't have nice things!
Seriously, this is pretty tasteless. I am kinda offended for a lot of little reasons like Harley Quinn being a great character, to the suicide attempts, and such.
Look, I've seen Harley go through a lot of stuff. It's not that it's she's naked in a tub, it's that DC wants people outside of the company to draw her naked committing suicide. For what, exactly?
Suicide's pretty controvercial. Naked is controvercial. These things happening to a popular character? And outsiourcing the art?
I guess like everything it's up to interpretation. I mean, if i was writing a comic and this was the story I'd agreed upon, I'd want the fans to come up with the best way to handle it as well. Not only do you get the opinions of the readers, you get to hand-ball responsibility when someone doesn't like it.
Thing is, this isn't really getting opinions of how it'd go, just what it'd look like. They're asking to draw a still frame of 4 scenarios it seems. What actually happens, what they do with this art, and pretty much everything is out of a submitter's hands. Even with getting opionions on what it looks like, odds are DC will only pick one entry and that means a lot of other opinions are null, going into the waste bin. It's unlikely they'd archive or even show the other entries.
They aren't even asking the fans how it should happen. They decided how it should happen.
It's not much of a way to dodge responsibility. DC approves the winner, don't they?
Yeah, uh...The whole issue wasn't because it was a gay marriage. DC doesn't seem to like marriages in general at the moment. They don't want what happened with "One More Day" to happen.
Thing is, this isn't really getting opinions of how it'd go, just what it'd look like. They're asking to draw a still frame of 4 scenarios it seems. What actually happens, what they do with this art, and pretty much everything is out of a submitter's hands. Even with getting opionions on what it looks like, odds are DC will only pick one entry and that means a lot of other opinions are null, going into the waste bin. It's unlikely they'd archive or even show the other entries.
They aren't even asking the fans how it should happen. They decided how it should happen.
They may assess common themes on how the participants treated the subject matter to determine how the scene should play out. If the common theme is comedy then they pick the funniest, if the theme is sorrow, then they pick the saddest, if the theme is sexy then they pick the sexist.
Of course that's purely speculation, but it's how I'd do it.
Rebel_Raven said:
It's not much of a way to dodge responsibility. DC approves the winner, don't they?
Thing is, this isn't really getting opinions of how it'd go, just what it'd look like. They're asking to draw a still frame of 4 scenarios it seems. What actually happens, what they do with this art, and pretty much everything is out of a submitter's hands. Even with getting opionions on what it looks like, odds are DC will only pick one entry and that means a lot of other opinions are null, going into the waste bin. It's unlikely they'd archive or even show the other entries.
They aren't even asking the fans how it should happen. They decided how it should happen.
They may assess common themes on how the participants treated the subject matter to determine how the scene should play out. If the common theme is comedy then they pick the funniest, if the theme is sorrow, then they pick the saddest, if the theme is sexy then they pick the sexist.
Of course that's purely speculation, but it's how I'd do it.
Rebel_Raven said:
It's not much of a way to dodge responsibility. DC approves the winner, don't they?
You bring up fair points. I think they could've handled the request better, at least. Then again considering what they're asking for, they prolly threw tact out the window.
I dunno if I'd mix sexiest with suicide.
Honestly, I think that if the 4th option was some madcap method like the previous three, I don't think there'd be so much backlash. I mean electronics in a tub is pretty realistic in that most anyone could try it, or have it happen to them on accident, though I'm pretty sure a lot of modern electrical devices have a shut off to prevent such suicide attempts. That's not to say it's impossible to manage, though.
It's worth pointing out that one of the guys later posted to add some much-needed context. Apparently, the tone for the whole thing is supposed to be a Looney Tunes style slapstick 4th wall gag, where Harley is sharing with the audience the disbelief at what the DC writers are putting her through this time.
You can make up your own mind on whether you buy this or if it's probably simple damage limitation or whatever.
But if it was the case; then they really, really should have given that context in the first place, and probably worded the description for the 4th panel differently; if they didn't want people getting the wrong idea. It's not like they're at a point where people are giving them the benefit of the doubt.
When I first heard about this via the initial headline information; I didn't put it past them at all that this would be part of a story that they'd be doing next, and that it'd be a grim pulp misuse of a popular character. (kinda like that Joker story I heard about where he supposedly started wearing people's faces with belts and killing off characters to raise the stakes. How'd that end up, btw?)
I think this is just a publicity stunt. It can?t be a coincidence that this comes on the eve of National Suicide Prevention Week. DC can?t be that sexist or insensitive; they just want to kick up a shitstorm so they?ll be relevant again, since comic sales are dropping and people care more about the films based on their decades-old characters than the actual shitty storylines cranked out in the comics themselves.
Um, if they're doing this just to kick up a shit storm and get some publicity, then that would mean they're even more sexist and insensitive. Not less.
Been thinking about this story and checking out the details of the competition. Gotta say, not really that big of a problem. It's in bad taste, sure. But if you look at exactly what they're asking artists to do, it's in line with the character and up to the artist to make it tasteful. Jim Lee explains it better if you check out his Twitter feed.
I'm not saying it's right but I think we've all overreacted a bit.
Wait, she's in the bath, about to electrocute herself. I don't know about people who are outraged by the nakedness, but any sane person I know is naked in the bath. Oh right. Every sane person, and this is Harley. Still, if you're going to kill yourself, I doubt you're going to be looking to get your best Sunday attire.
And yes, if people want a counter-campaign, they should just draw Batman in place of Harley and submit that instead.
i really hate this, the romantization of suicide in pop culture is pretty bad as it is. but the only reason to specify naked is to try and grab a sexual reaction. and anyone who can hold those two concepts in their head together and conect them in any way is in need of help.
You know by your own definition you need to seek help?
You had the cocnept of suicide and sexual reactions in your head and connected them.
Please report to your friendly neighborhood psychotherapist citizen!
OT: Its not really that big of a deal, just more whiners kicking up controversy. If shes in a bath, generally people are naked in baths... and she is nuttier than squirrel shit, so suicide isnt that strange a concept for her. hell she is part of a group called the suicide squad.
Sorry since I did just get off work but where in the article it mentions sexualising suicide? I see many people have mentioned it but I can't see any part where they're asking to sexualise it?
- people do commit suicide in bathtubs
- when they do it, I assume they're quite often naked
Also, AFAIK, Harley is crazy. Crazy people often run around naked.
So... Well?
Oh, right. 'Naked female suicide' makes for great headlines. No matter that it's just one of 4 scenarios (and the most realistic). No matter that the topic is friggin' SUICIDE. No, it's because it's a) female b) naked. BAN THAT SHIT!!!
BTW if you consider this 'sexualized', ask any paramedic who was called to a real naked female suicide how turned on they were by the dead blue body they found. I think not much.
So... let me get this straight... Everyone is pissed off because she's naked... in a bathtub? I don't see the problem here. So that leaves people upset that this panel is more serious than the other wacky, over the top dark humor panels. I can already picture Harley Quinn releasing the cord to drop all the appliances, realizing that she's still alive because none of them were plugged in, looking up at the sky and shouting, "You've got to be kidding me!"
For those not understanding why people are upset about this, it isn't because she is naked in the bathtub. At least, it isn't the main reason. If it was, I couldn't say with a straight face that I enjoyed Gotham City Sirens. To understand why people reacted this way, let's take a look at the requirements in question, alright?
DC Comics said:
Read the following script page and give us your original artistic interpretation of what those four panels should look like on a single page:
PAGE 15
4 panels
PANEL 1
Harley is on top of a building, holding a large DETACHED cellphone tower in her hands as lightning is striking just about everywhere except her tower. She is looking at us like she cannot believe what she is doing. Beside herself. Not happy.
PANEL 2
Harley is sitting in an alligator pond, on a little island with a suit of raw chicken on, rolling her eyes like once again, she cannot believe where she has found herself. We see the alligators ignoring her.
PANEL 3
Harley is sitting in an open whale mouth, tickling the inside of the whale?s mouth with a feather. She is ecstatic and happy, like this is the most fun ever.
PANEL 4
Harley sitting naked in a bathtub with toasters, blow dryers, blenders, appliances all dangling above the bathtub and she has a cord that will release them all. We are watching the moment before the inevitable death. Her expression is one of ?oh well, guess that?s it for me? and she has resigned herself to the moment that is going to happen.
- See more at: http://www.dccomics.com/node/305151#sthash.X6WMlES2.dpuf
With this, I will attempt to explain the two problems with this and then try to explain how the two of them together makes the situation even worse.
Problem #1. The sharp change of tone on panel 4 compared to the other panels.
In each of the 4 panels, Harley Quinn attempts to kill herself. In the first one, she tries to get strike by lightning. In the second, she tries to get eaten by alligators. In the third one, she tries to get eaten by a whale. And in the fourth? She...is going to electrocute herself in the bathtub. And that is the problem. The first 3 are examples of black humor. They are so outlandish they became quite funny. This is supported by the face she is supposed to be making in those panels. In the first one, she can't believe what she is doing. In the second one, she is annoyed that her efforts have been foiled. In the third, she is having so much fun tickling the whale she forgot her original plan.
The fourth one though, "We are watching the moment before the inevitable death" "She has resigned herself to the moment that is going to happen." There is no comedy, no jokes. The isn't an ounce of black humor. She is using a believable method of suicide with a fairly serious attitude. Where's the joke?
This isn't to say people can't depict suicide or realistic suicide in comics. But it has to fit the tone. This...doesn't. The mood whiplash is strong and seems to be done in an attempt to switch the reader's viewpoint from happy to worried.
Problem #2: Specifying Naked in the description.
Now, many of you have said "Of course she is naked in the bathtub! She in the bathtub!" You are correct. It is normal for one to assume that someone in the bathtub should be naked...so why did DC feel obligated to right that detail down? After all, their is no mention of water in this scene. After all, she's in the bathtub! Why isn't water a part of the description. The people of DC clearly thought "naked" was important to put in the description.
This next part might just be the cynic in me, but after putting the words Naked and Harley Quinn in the same paragraph, how do you think Harley Quinn will be portrayed? There are ways of showing women in bathtubs without it looking sexual, but given DC's current treatment of women, I'm not holding my breath...
The Combined Problem
Now with both elements in place, let's see what the problem is. DC is, in the same panel, attempting to show Harley Quinn trying to commit a realistic form of suicide (especially in comparison to the three previous panels) with Harley Quinn with a resigned face (in contrast to Quinn's energetic persona in previous comics and previous panels) with one of the specific requirements being that she be naked. This is where people are getting "DC is sexualizing suicide." And I personally agree. While this may have not been the intention, the points are there.
Also, to address some minor detail. Criticizers aren't saying that female comic book characters should be in full clothing without the smallest of skin showing. What they are saying is the requirement of nudity in a semi-serious suicide scene is not tasteful.
Another minor detail is that even with the new information on that panel, it still doesn't change the problem. The audience, the people who were going to draw this page, wasn't given this information. And even if it was. The way the comic blurb is written still carries unfortunate implications akin to All-Star Batman and Robin (though, to be fair, it's nowhere as bad).
That is just wrong... what's happening with DC... they seem hell bent to ruin everying they own but Batman? Seriously?
And that is not funny, suicide is really serious matter... i'm not opposed to it being used in comic book, but it must be used with seriousnes, not as a punch line. and it would probably be better to not show it. ot have it happen off pannel... not to give any idea to impressionable audience....
An established character with mental problems who goes on criminal rampages with a person who's really fucked in the head commiting suicide is completely within the realm of possibilities for a character like that regardless of the reason for doing it. Everything is for publicity, the comics industry always needs publicity, that's why they killed superman!
"Sexism!"
Ugh... the more this gets thrown around in place of "I don't personally like this", the more meaning the word loses. All this crap does is make things MORE uncomfortable between the sexes. You can't do anything without having some group scream at you, even when you think you worked so hard to make a character like in The Last Of US, but no she's "Not strong and independent ENOUGH" for some people.
An established character with mental problems who goes on criminal rampages with a person who's really fucked in the head commiting suicide is completely within the realm of possibilities for a character like that regardless of the reason for doing it. Everything is for publicity, the comics industry always needs publicity, that's why they killed superman!
"Sexism!"
Ugh... the more this gets thrown around in place of "I don't personally like this", the more meaning the word loses. All this crap does is make things MORE uncomfortable between the sexes. You can't do anything without having some group scream at you, even when you think you worked so hard to make a character like in The Last Of US, but no she's "Not strong and independent ENOUGH" for some people.
Actually no it doesn't make sense. Harley is a pretty well defined character, and as such a well defined psyche. She is a danger freak. An adrenalin junky. She stares death in the face and laughs at it literally. She may suffer death by misadventure or negligence. But Harley would not committ suicide. That's not her psychosis. That's the exact opposite of her.
DC...you...I just I don't...*goes in a corner and cries* It's like a relationship with an abuser. You keep going back for reasons you can't explain and they just hit you again. But...why Harley Quinn? They knew they must have known how popular this character was/is even with the 'redesign' and shit she is still a popular female character hell she's one of the most well known female villains and...DC do you not understand that WOMEN EXIST IN REAL LIFE!?
Come on guys, this is DC. IF it isn't fucked up they want no part of it.
I mean even the ending to batman incorporated, or the new 52 Joker is on the same level.
And the suicide makes sense, especially since Harley thinks joker is dead. Not the kind of person you would expect a sane response from when she hears her "puddin" is dead.
Maybe in the shows and games she can keep it together, but in the comics she is different.
Even the old comics were the same, especially the earthquake aftershock arc. Only in the games and movies is Batman have any semblance of limits.
And that's because they can't show kids the time batman and Catwoman had raunchy sex and dumped the baby girl in a foster home that was later burgled and leaving the kid a fucked up poor orphan.
keep in mind people: Video games & TV shows are not the real batman, its only a cleaned up version of batman.
Come on guys, this is DC. IF it isn't fucked up they want no part of it.
I mean even the ending to batman incorporated, or the new 52 Joker is on the same level.
And the suicide makes sense, especially since Harley thinks joker is dead. Not the kind of person you would expect a sane response from when she hears her "puddin" is dead.
Maybe in the shows and games she can keep it together, but in the comics she is different.
Even the old comics were the same, especially the earthquake aftershock arc. Only in the games and movies is Batman have any semblance of limits.
And that's because they can't show kids the time batman and Catwoman had raunchy sex and dumped the baby girl in a foster home that was later burgled and leaving the kid a fucked up poor orphan.
keep in mind people: Video games & TV shows are not the real batman, its only a cleaned up version of batman.
In a bathtub. The other two are more black humor for DC.
Everything related to Joker or Harley is all fucked up and black humor. Joker even had a mutated two headed kitten writhing in pain. Joker put a bomb on it and blew it up in front of Batman and his friends because he thought it was funny.
That's the real batman. Not the cleaned up version people around here are accustomed to.
This doesn't even begin to scratch the surface of controversial stuff in DC.
I dunno, there're so many versions of Batman - and every other underwear superhero - that whenever I see the obligatory dark and twisted take on them I always think they're trying a little too hard to distance themselves from the milquetoast feel of the original comics.
This is just one more step along Harley Quinn's tawdry and smutty downward spiral. They took what was at first a decent female version of the Joker and decided to mutate her into a disgusting fan-service sex pot. I feel D.C. comics could seriously benefit from studying the cartoon the Burka Avenger.
Even better timing? Our new (gods help us all) prime minister announced a 4.5billion dollar cut to international aid on international charity day.
OT: Seriously? This is a genuine competition? Who the frag is running DC these days, and how the hell did it get past the PR department? Or even the staff meeting where it would have been discussed?
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