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Edit: well this is awkward... damn chrome tabs, they all look alike
this post is now in it's proper place:
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/9.265877.10125311
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this post is now in it's proper place:
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/9.265877.10125311
Who said art had to have a "story"?
Where is the story here? Doom has more of a story, and I'm not just talking about the opening text crawl.
When most game critics say "story" seem to mean plot, usually in the narrow terms as you'd find in a book, play or novel. But that's just hegemonic prejudice getting in the way, the same reason Ebert foolishly said games could not be art, because he is a FILM CRITIC and he only knows the way that films can be art.
Narrative can be so broad and subtle, any game that has progression has a narrative, you are exploring and discovering new things about a strange and exciting new world in such a visceral and personal way.
Take Left 4 Dead, a multiplayer zombie shooter, it actually has a deep and dynamic narrative that you may not be the creator of, but you are the auteur. The wild card is your own free will, the gambit is that your will can be manipulated and that has far greater artistic potential than a rigidly controlled.
I think a good analogy of games as art is to Architecture or sculpture. You can enter a building from any angle, you can take any values you like with you to use the building in any way. See a really well designed building takes account of your own free will.
That's the problem with plays, films and book they talk a lot about ideals of free will but very few actually grant that to their audience, they have to passively consume it as per the orders of the auteur. Read the book chapter by chapter, watch the film in order, some very good films know the benefit of ambiguity, this can be so powerful to an audience as it gives them a chance to exercise their free will and make a DECISION on what happened, who was right,who was wrong and not simply be TOLD what is.
Where is the story here? Doom has more of a story, and I'm not just talking about the opening text crawl.
When most game critics say "story" seem to mean plot, usually in the narrow terms as you'd find in a book, play or novel. But that's just hegemonic prejudice getting in the way, the same reason Ebert foolishly said games could not be art, because he is a FILM CRITIC and he only knows the way that films can be art.
Narrative can be so broad and subtle, any game that has progression has a narrative, you are exploring and discovering new things about a strange and exciting new world in such a visceral and personal way.
Take Left 4 Dead, a multiplayer zombie shooter, it actually has a deep and dynamic narrative that you may not be the creator of, but you are the auteur. The wild card is your own free will, the gambit is that your will can be manipulated and that has far greater artistic potential than a rigidly controlled.
I think a good analogy of games as art is to Architecture or sculpture. You can enter a building from any angle, you can take any values you like with you to use the building in any way. See a really well designed building takes account of your own free will.
That's the problem with plays, films and book they talk a lot about ideals of free will but very few actually grant that to their audience, they have to passively consume it as per the orders of the auteur. Read the book chapter by chapter, watch the film in order, some very good films know the benefit of ambiguity, this can be so powerful to an audience as it gives them a chance to exercise their free will and make a DECISION on what happened, who was right,who was wrong and not simply be TOLD what is.
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This is a really good post, but I think you either meant to post it in my topic, or Zannah's topic. This is the topic for Steam salesTreblaine said:Who said art had to have a "story"?
Where is the story here? Doom has more of a story, and I'm not just talking about the opening text crawl.
When most game critics say "story" seem to mean plot, usually in the narrow terms as you'd find in a book, play or novel. But that's just hegemonic prejudice getting in the way, the same reason Ebert foolishly said games could not be art, because he is a FILM CRITIC and he only knows the way that films can be art.
Narrative can be so broad and subtle, any game that has progression has a narrative, you are exploring and discovering new things about a strange and exciting new world in such a visceral and personal way.
Take Left 4 Dead, a multiplayer zombie shooter, it actually has a deep and dynamic narrative that you may not be the creator of, but you are the auteur. The wild card is your own free will, the gambit is that your will can be manipulated and that has far greater artistic potential than a rigidly controlled.
I think a good analogy of games as art is to Architecture or sculpture. You can enter a building from any angle, you can take any values you like with you to use the building in any way. See a really well designed building takes account of your own free will.
That's the problem with plays, films and book they talk a lot about ideals of free will but very few actually grant that to their audience, they have to passively consume it as per the orders of the auteur. Read the book chapter by chapter, watch the film in order, some very good films know the benefit of ambiguity, this can be so powerful to an audience as it gives them a chance to exercise their free will and make a DECISION on what happened, who was right,who was wrong and not simply be TOLD what is.
Two games are on sale that I want to call attention to:
[http://store.steampowered.com/app/20900/?snr=1_4_4__106_1]
$10
While I don't think Yahtzee was wrong in his review of this game, it did have a special charm that made it impossible for me to dismiss this game despite the challenges I've had in trying to get into it. I guess it feels like those older RPGs where things are too damn complicated, but are enjoyable once you figure them out. Too bad the combat was so dry.
[http://store.steampowered.com/app/22700/]
$10
I.
Fucking.
LOVE.
this game.
My friend showed me years ago the original Sacred that I wrote about when I started this thread, but I never really got into it before I sank 20 or so hours starting this game. It's everything Sacred 1 was, but even better. You can even modify the way your skills work by adding new effects for when they go off. Don't like your fireball spell? How about you make it a seeking fire ball? Accurate enough of a caster that you don't need the homing feature? Just add a second fireball instead.
All that said though, I ended up having to abandon the game because it would crash constantly after a certain patch. I don't know if Steam fixed it or anything, but at $10, I'm going to risk it to see. I loved the game that much.
$10
While I don't think Yahtzee was wrong in his review of this game, it did have a special charm that made it impossible for me to dismiss this game despite the challenges I've had in trying to get into it. I guess it feels like those older RPGs where things are too damn complicated, but are enjoyable once you figure them out. Too bad the combat was so dry.
$10
I.
Fucking.
LOVE.
this game.
My friend showed me years ago the original Sacred that I wrote about when I started this thread, but I never really got into it before I sank 20 or so hours starting this game. It's everything Sacred 1 was, but even better. You can even modify the way your skills work by adding new effects for when they go off. Don't like your fireball spell? How about you make it a seeking fire ball? Accurate enough of a caster that you don't need the homing feature? Just add a second fireball instead.
All that said though, I ended up having to abandon the game because it would crash constantly after a certain patch. I don't know if Steam fixed it or anything, but at $10, I'm going to risk it to see. I loved the game that much.
stupid me, i just got fallout 3, would've gone for borderlands instead. Balls >:/. Ah well, fallout 3 is good enough
Probably 'cause he played it pre-patched. Enhanced Edition fixed most of the problems with the gameSigna said:Two games are on sale that I want to call attention to:
[http://store.steampowered.com/app/20900/?snr=1_4_4__106_1]
$10
While I don't think Yahtzee was wrong in his review of this game, it did have a special charm that made it impossible for me to dismiss this game despite the challenges I've had in trying to get into it. I guess it feels like those older RPGs where things are too damn complicated, but are enjoyable once you figure them out. Too bad the combat was so dry.
There is a sale on Crysis on Steam right now, for those interested. That and to bump this thread again
Midweek Madness:
Worms Reloaded @ 50% off ($9.99)
Singularity @ 66% off ($10.20)
Today's Deal: Majesty 2 @ 66% off ($3.40)
Non-spotlighted sales:
APOX, APOX: Legend @ 50% off each
Swords & Soldiers @ 50% off ($4.99)
The HoI2&3 sale has ended.
SpaceChem no longer on sale.
Worms Reloaded @ 50% off ($9.99)
Singularity @ 66% off ($10.20)
Today's Deal: Majesty 2 @ 66% off ($3.40)
Non-spotlighted sales:
APOX, APOX: Legend @ 50% off each
Swords & Soldiers @ 50% off ($4.99)
The HoI2&3 sale has ended.
SpaceChem no longer on sale.