Dear fellow Escapists,

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intheweeds

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Apr 6, 2011
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Recently there have been an awful lot of over the top threads regarding topics such as sexism vs. reverse sexism, racism vs. reverse racism, homophobia vs. ... ad nauseum.

In this thread I have just been in a few posters made me think and write this thread to the community:
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.312145-Sexism-Or-The-Turning-of-Tables?page=1
This is just the thread I was most recently in, there are as you know many others like it on various topics.

Anyway, someone who has been here for many years mentioned how he thought the boards and becoming more and more overrun with really privileged straight, white guys complaining about how they are victims of society. These boards are becoming full of casual sexism against women, casual racism, and casual homophobia he says. He says he is considering leaving because the environment here is becoming increasingly 'hostile'. I don't think we are at critical mass, but he has a very good point.

That makes me feel really awful. For a few reasons:

1)I love these boards, I haven't been around nearly as long as many, but I come here everyday and usually post in a thread i find interesting. There are people here that I genuinely like. If too many people act like jerks and all the good people begin to leave, jerks are all we will have left and I will leave too. That sucks.

2) I am a gay woman. I am secure and confident and I don't freak out every time someone says something offensive, but I still get offended make no mistake. When someone says something hurtful to you, it hurts - period. But because I'm gay, my intimate emotional experience with men is limited. I am forced to get my information about how men think by listening to other men's thoughts. This is a great place(as all message boards are) to hear varying opinions and have interesting discussions and learn from other peoples viewpoints. To be honest, these types of threads only serve to make men seem generally unfavorable to people like me. When there are SO many of them, what should people think about you in general? I know many men(like the guy I mentioned above) that are very sad to know that and realize that this makes some people feel like I do. Those men should be encouraged to remain. 'Male and hostile' is not an environment that I feel comfortable in and I know I am not the only one who feels that way nor are women here the only ones who feel this way.

Now, what do we do about it? Personally I would just like to say that I hope that before someone hits 'Post' on their new thread that they consider this:

Is this a controversial topic that can both easily hurt someone and easily be looked up on the internet if you have questions? If the answer is yes, think of something else to post about. Even if your intentions are good, you are only creating a stage for jerks to spout off on. Please just consider not doing it.

This is only my opinion of course. I personally am sick of seeing so many new outrageous threads every day. It makes me concerned that painful/hostile topics are all we can think of to chat about.
 

b3nn3tt

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May 11, 2010
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I think that it's a case of weeding through the bullshit and finding people who actually make valid arguments. It is entirely possible for people to hold completely opposing viewpoints, but still hold a reasoned and civil debate.

I know this will sound like a poor solution, but you have to just ignore those who can't come up with good arguments. For those who are offensive, the report button is there to help discipline them, hopefully teaching them the error of their ways.
 

Mouse_Crouse

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Apr 28, 2010
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The more popular the site become the more 'mainstream' people will come floating in and bring the usual internet problem with it. It is a natural byproduct of a growing community. I feel the response to it is far more important then trying to avoid it at all.
 

Jeralt2100

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Jun 9, 2010
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You come across threads like the one you mentioned on basically every site that allows such discussions. I couldn't even begin to estimate the number of them I've seen over the past year both here and elsewhere but you should remember that while there are a great number of adults on these boards there are also quite a few young and impressionable folks around too and they may not have the same 'filters' the adults do on their reactions to things.

Overall, I wouldn't worry too much about it. I can say that I'm a straight white male in my early 30s, single, and I don't feel discriminated against by society in general or any specific people. Of course I'm old enough and comfortable enough with who I am to be secure in my beliefs and accepting that the beliefs of others won't always line up with mine, and that's cool too.

Try not to worry too much about the number of threads on a particular topic though, because it certainly isn't representative of society at large or even necessarily our community here.
 

OmniscientOstrich

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Jan 6, 2011
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Actually I'm generally pretty happy with this community. Okay, sure there are some people with some deluded victim complex that legitimately believe men have it just as bad, or even worse when it comes to discrimination against the sexes. I'm not saying it never happens, before people jump on that, but be honest it's really not on the same scale. Whilst there is the odd blistering insipid comment that tries to portray bisexuality/atheism/misanthropy etc. as some kind of fad or the type of people who equate Feminism with misandry. I still believe most people on here are able to uphold a certain degree of civility and respectfully disagree on these kinds of issues. I don't think discussing issues on sexism is a problem, but when you go through these trends of the same threads ubiquitously cropping up over the course of a month or so then it does get a bit annoying. Eh, I think they might start to die out soon, or even if they don't, people can feel free to ignore them.
 

trooper6

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Jul 26, 2008
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The problem for me is that it wasn't like this a few years ago. These boards were more balanced. Every day some fellow makes a post that basically says: "Men are discriminated against because I don't have a girlfriend, I want my country back!" And then a whole bunch of guys pile on saying, "Yeah, that is so true. Feminists are Nazis and I hate them!"

I mean, it is crazy. Before there were not that many threads and when those threads popped up, the majority of the community would say, "Stop being a goober." And we'd all move on.

It didn't feel like a hostile place. But now it is feeling increasingly hostile. Full of a bunch of aggrieved dudes who have come here for a version of Yahtzee they have in their mind...where I think they aren't getting his irony and think that making homophobic jokes and calling women names is just funny. It reminds me of that line from Rebecca Mayes's "Love Song to Yahtzee (Bloodhound)"--"I feel, you're no corporate whore but you're propping up the man for sure..."

It is very disheartening and tiring.
 

Colour Scientist

Troll the Respawn, Jeremy!
Jul 15, 2009
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But don't you see white, middle class, straight males ARE the victims in society. Minorities, homosexuals and women are trying to take what little dignity they have left, the bastards!

I try to avoid it and I instantly regretted posting in that thread as I knew the exact type of responses I was going to get. I didn't respond to any of them and just left the thread because I'm tired of having the same arguments with similar people. I know it's irritating when someone just leaves an argument but if they care that much they can look through my post history and look at the arguments I've made time and time again.

Honestly, the only thing I can think of is to ignore the threads if it offends you. The reason there's so many is because of the reaction they get. People, especially on the internet, love to stir shit and currently on this site that's the best way to do it. It's like the zombie apocalypse threads if you stop giving them attention they'll eventually die out.
 

Tsukuyomi

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May 28, 2011
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I'll admit these tendencies towards what could be considered 'hot-button topics' are getting to be a bit much. I think what contributes is that many people around here want to be...cool, in a sense. They wanna be that guy or girl who's a total cynic/Yahtzee clone and they try to be such by pointing out things that THEY think are supposedly stupid or wrong, as opposed to things that simply actually are. Often they also seem to be the ones who wanna boil everything down to one witty comment like with the whole "it's hated because it's popular" bit.

Sorry, but it's just getting tiring and it's just not cool. And frankly, if people wanna talk about that kind of stuff...why not just take it to the Religion and Politics area? That entire place seems to be MADE for the kinds of threads we're discussing here. If you wanna be a jerk/bigot/sexist or...whatever...take it somewhere where at least when we click on the link, we KNOW what we're walking into.

I'll also throw in one of MovieBob's bits because I think it applies somewhat to this topic and is a hard truth some folks need to see: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/the-big-picture/2783-Correctitude

Ultimately, though? Yeah...unfortunately right now the best we can do is ignore it and remember proper Internet Survival Rules. Don't Feed the Trolls.
 

TheRightToArmBears

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Dec 13, 2008
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Ehh, the community is less tight-knit than it used to be, I find I care less than I used to when I see a moronic opinion. I used to think 'Oh dear, there's an idiot in the community, how annoying', now I think 'oh look, an idiot. Ignore.'
 
Dec 14, 2009
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Abandon4093 said:
Because straight white guys can't have an opinion. They're too privileged.

:/
Quiet you! Back into the salt mines!

Sure, certain threads are popular at the moment, but it's no different than back when every other thread was about My Little Pony.

We have interesting threads, and the flavour of the month threads.
 

Trivun

Stabat mater dolorosa
Dec 13, 2008
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Mouse_Crouse said:
The more popular the site become the more 'mainstream' people will come floating in and bring the usual internet problem with it. It is a natural byproduct of a growing community. I feel the response to it is far more important then trying to avoid it at all.
And this hits the nail on the head, with the exact same response I had thought yet stated in a much more efficient and eloquent way than I would have written. I agree totally, as more people come here it gets harder to sort through the trash to find the well written, sensible, dare I say 'valid' threads that promote decent discussion and debate. Now, I'm all for this site being popular and getting more traffic, because that in turn drives the site itself and results in the staff having the audience and resources to continue producing amazing content like we have here. But then the forums end up overrun with inane pointless topics and suddenly anyone like myself or other posters who want to make interesting and topical threads are suddenly drowned out by the sheer amount of crap and repeat threads that other users post. But that is merely the habitual and natural consequence of having such a large amount of traffic, and such a large community, for a site like The Escapist. We may wish it was different, and that it was back in the 'good old days', but then what would that entail? Should we simply ban those who don't contribute in a meaningful way to the community, or do a massive sweep of anyone who has views that differ from those of the 'old crowd', which as I've seen over the past three years are varied and diverse in themselves? These aren't exactly feasible, or fair, options, and I wouldn't condone them personally. What matters isn't what the community is becoming, but how we react to it, and what we as older members can do alongside the Escapist staff and moderators to make sure the forums don't end up a place where meaningful discussion and debate is a thing of the past. And for that reason, though I also hate seeing what the forums are slowly becoming, I won't be leaving the site anytime soon, because I have faith that by working together we can restore the community back to what it once was, and hopefully even better than that...
 

Versuvius

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Apr 30, 2008
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I wish the hive-mind wouldn't spawn 5 identical threads when someone posts one of the above 'controvertial' threads. I also think it's just to get a high post count for the badge. Incidentally, people should take a step back and being offended for other people. Many, many, many innocent things can be considered homophobic, sexist or racist. Alright blatant spouts of racial hate are bad in anyones books but some things are petty. Petty, pathetic and people need to lighten the fuck up and stop being so offended at little things. Also i have seen no definitive examples posted about these issues, just insults thrown against straight, white males who are 'over privelaged'. Well alright. Give me some examples and stop flinging threads to trawl through, that's lazy argument making.

I am not saying it's right, but some things are blown out of context for the sake of being offended by whatever was said, implied or indeed, not implied at all but imagined. I also suspect it's a minority who Are being trollish for the sake of it, and are more often than not told to defend their view with reasonable argument or shut the fuck up.