Dear Origin, You Stink

[Snotnarok]

I agree with one key thing here, you're selling your games digitally, yet you offer no discount and it's just silly.

I can buy the ME3 collectors edition and get a physical copy,manual, artbook,lithograph, some digital content OR, I buy Origin for the SAME PRICE and get everything ...digital. Why would ANYONE want to buy it on origin? Same price but you have nothing in your hand? Drop the price 10-15 bucks then you'll generate interest.

Hell that was a fairly big part about me switching from Xbox to PC when ME2 was coming out, I could get the collector edition for 60 bucks the same price as the xbox standard, hell yeah I'll switch, I'll even buy ME1 when it goes on sale on steam!

 

[Antari]

Well I guess that marks the end if my interest in Mass Effect 3. If they are going to restrict it to origin only, I won't be getting it.

Overall great article, but I'm afraid it will fall on deaf ears if it fall on EA's ears at all. They are about as stubborn and thick headed as it gets. Great for hostile take overs, not so much for public relations.

 

[luckshot]

Dear Mr. Young,

Stay out of my mind.

sincerely, me.

on another note, is origin still doing the whole evil data harvesting thing?

didnt you know that by having an account on the escapist you gave them the right to pick through your mind and give your thoughts to their authors? i suggest trying to stay focused on important things

excellent article shamus, and unlike some of the others i will at least thank you for finding something of value while digging through my brain.

just remember even when preaching to the choir the drunken gamblers in the back alley may hear and take it to heart

 

[kibayasu]

For everyone saying you're dead right on every point, you sure are wrong on several points and mistaken on others. Let's take it from the top:

1) Origin's Method of Installing DLC is Horrible:

First I think everyone is confusing Origin's method for downloading DLC with BioWare's. BioWare making you download every single tiny piece of DLC from their website is terrible.

Since Steam is the favorite, let's compare it with that. You buy DLC on Steam, it updates your base game automatically if its already installed and will be downloaded automatically the next time you install the game if you delete it. With Origin you buy the DLC and you have to install it manually from the "Show Game Details" page. What a hassle right? Well, yes, I suppose for some it could be. Plus it could be more obvious where the DLC shows up to be downloaded. However, say I don't want to install the DLC I've bought? I want to play Borderlands with a friend but he only has the base game with none of the expansions. He has to download 8 GB of game. I have to download 12 GB of game. What if I only want one or two of those packs to be installed?

But there's also the matter of bonuses like soundtracks, wallpapers, art books, and so on. With Steam, to get these relatively tiny files, you have to install the whole game. Guess what is also listed in the "Game Details" window in Origin? That's right, you can download your 10 MB worth of hi-res JPEG's without having to download 10 GB worth of game as well. What if I have limited bandwidth but I want to listen to the Dragon Age: Origins soundtrack? Well, I guess I have to go illegally download it off The Pirate Bay because otherwise I'll have to waste 12 GB worth of bandwidth if I only have access to Steam.

2) Origin's Back Catalog is Lacking:

I'm really surprised I have to be the one to explain this to someone. Valve is an independently owned developer that puts out, if we're lucky, a game a year. EA is a publicly owned, shareholder run company that puts out dozens. That means that Valve will have a much, much, much easier time negotiating with other companies than EA will. Some people may note that Origin has Batman: Arkham City and Saints Row The Third. Even with a hefty amount of speculation I can guarantee you that EA is not making as much money on the sale of those games as Valve does. Why? Because those are games that belong to other publicly traded, shareholder run companies.

It's pretty simple to understand. WB, THQ, Activision, Nintendo, and Ubisoft don't want their games on Origin because it helps a direct competitor. That is, unless they can get an incredibly good deal on it. To get a good deal both companies would have to agree to it. If Ubisoft wants 90% of the sale of Revelations, EA isn't going to accept that. If EA wants 30% of the sale of Revelations, Ubisoft isn't going to accept that because they can already get a better deal with Steam and they won't be helping out someone they see as a direct threat. Valve, for all their quality, do not make most of their money on games any more. They do not compete with Ubisoft.

EA and other publishers have to negotiate a hell of a lot more than Valve does with publishers. It's a slow process and will probably result in a lot of games not being on Origin. But to say this is EA's fault for being the company it is, is completely asinine.

3) Activating Games on Origin

Any EA game published 2009 and later that's also for sale on Origin can be activated, for free, on Origin. So that copy of Alice that's scratched? You don't need to buy it for $5 on Steam, you can activate it for free on Origin.

4) The Price Disparity of Origin and Steam is Terrible

Now I did read about some price discrepancies between countries with Origin. I don't know if these are fixed yet. I can only go by the prices I see though. Let's begin shall we?

Mirror's Edge: Steam price - $20 Origin price - $20
Mass Effect 2: Steam Price - $20 Origin price - $20
Dragon Age Origins: Steam - $20 Origin Price - $20
Medal of Honor: $20 on both
Bad Company 2: $20
Battlefield 2: $20
Dead Space and Dead Space 2: $20
Crysis and Warhead: $20

And so on.

So I guess I'm wondering why you're throwing this as a complaint against Origin specifically? Their prices are the exact same as Steam. Shouldn't this be a complaint against EA and not their digital store? A small difference to some but an important one to make nonetheless. This is not Origin. This is EA. This is an article about Origin. This isn't an article about digital prices. If this is an article about digital prices, then you need to include every single digital service in the world. You're no longer talking about Origin and EA, but THQ, WB, Activision, Nintendo, LucasArts, Valve ($50 for Portal 2 at launch on Steam! Preposterous!), and so on. Everyone charges full retail price at digital right now. Lumping all of this onto Origin and EA seems unfair at best and disingenuous at worst.

Then there's the fact that the clear majority of those $5 games you mention are not the kind of games you imply they are. Many, and I mean many, are downloadable content packs that Steam counts as a game. On the first page of listing, sorted by release date, 20 out of 25 items are DLC packs. The next page is 25 of 25. The next is 25 of 25. The next is 21 of 25. The next is 18 of 25. So in the first 5 pages of the "Under $5 listing" I've already knocked off 109 "games" of the current 583 "Games Under $5." There's also the matter that another huge chunk of these games are things that, to be frank, most people aren't interested in and probably don't even approach 10,000 copies sold. Those 583 Games Under $5 you see Steam proclaim is marketing. Which has its place. That place is not within a serious piece of criticism.

5) EA's Privacy Policy and End User License Agreement is Terrible

I would suggest that everyone who actually got up in arms about this go read Steam's Terms of Service (ToS) and End User License Agreement (EULA). What you find may really surprise you. You'll find the exact same language saying the exact same thing. If you really want to scare yourself go read the ToS and EULA on a copy of Mac OS or Windows. Any service with a client you install on your computer will have the exact language that Origin does. Those controversial sections that EA removed and changed just made their wording even more vague and that makes things worse. Vague legalese is bad. Specific legalese is good. People badgering EA about their EULA... Made. Things. Worse.

Now if you want to argue that these things need to go away entirely I'll be with you. But the fact of the matter is, for the purposes of this article, Origin is no different than Steam when it comes to data mining and gathering.

 

[jimbob123432]

I'm a hardcore Mass Effect fan (logged at least 300 hours in total on both) and I might not buy ME3 if it's only on Origin.

 

[bit_crusherrr]

All your points about price are moot. Steam is the most expensive place to buy games. £40 for Arkham City? Fuck that it was under £30 the day it came out at retail. £29.99 for Portal 2? Fuck that it was £25 from online retailers. The only time it's worth buying games on Steam is if you're desperate enough to spend an extra £5-10 or its on sale. Even then when the newer releases go on sale its either cheaper to buy it from a store/online retailer or the same price.

Also at least Origin lets you install your games to different hard drives, as for DLC I don't see what problem is. I installed Karkand fine, the game just updated itself with the DLC.

I think people just hate on Origin because its the trendy thing to do, Steam is still full of faults and the customer service is abysmal, it takes well over a week to get a response (This is from experience, I've raised 3 tickets total each one took over a week to get a first response). You hear horror stories about EA's live support but I've never had a problem with it, and at least you get to talk to someone within 30 minutes instead of waiting ages for a reply.

OP

Great post, shame it's a little late, but well argued. I'm in that unfortunate position of absolutely loving BF3 but being compeletely unable to recommend it because of Origin - I had to download 24Gb of data all told trying to get BF3 working, and I had the freaking disk.

Not impressed.

Origin wasn't downloading the game from the internet, it was taking it off the disk. I was really annoyed as I thought it was downloading it myself, so took the disk out and it stopped, could of done with something to say its reading the data from the disk not downloading it.

portal 2 was 26 quid pre order, which meant you could also play it as soon as it was released, unlike the boxed copy. As for arkham city, its a popular game, why shouldn't they charge for it (i grabbed it for 20 on the sale, but still). Their competitively priced on most things, there will be some anomalies but for the most part its not too bad price wise.

The prices are always £5+ on Steam compared to other retailers. I'm not saying Steam is bad, but at the same time its not the amazing thing people make it out to be, and Origin is no where near as bad as people like to make out. It's just fanboyism for digital stores.

 

[ninja51]

A very good read.

Thing that gets me though is everyone is going apeshit over games requireing Origin, but at the same time, many games require Steam. Now I dont like either service much, I dont work with funds over the internet, currently, much, and I hate having memory used for a background service that only stands to suck up ram for me.

When I go out and pick up a hard copy of Shogun 2, I dont want to be forced to install ANYTHING besides Shogun 2, regardless of what service it is.

Now dont get me wrong, I respect Steam much more than Origin, and I completely agree the ladder is a shit service, but it seems hypocritical to me that the arguement has been made on this forum many times that Origin is overstepping its bounds by forcing itself to be used with EA games. This seems to me to be one of the few cases where it's either all wrong, or none of it is.

 

[rapidoud]

I just bought BF3 yesterday. $20 for a Russian key almost everywhere.

Or over $80 on Origin. Seems like Blizzard lines of thinking to me, which is why I hate both countries.

 

[Marudas]

Anyone else think that EA is working some sort of secret scam where they get massive tax breaks by making irrefutably stupid decisions?

Or am I just reaching for a sensible reason for all this nonsense where none exists.

 

[luckshot]

A very good read.

Thing that gets me though is everyone is going apeshit over games requireing Origin, but at the same time, many games require Steam. Now I dont like either service much, I dont work with funds over the internet, currently, much, and I hate having memory used for a background service that only stands to suck up ram for me.

When I go out and pick up a hard copy of Shogun 2, I dont want to be forced to install ANYTHING besides Shogun 2, regardless of what service it is.

Now dont get me wrong, I respect Steam much more than Origin, and I completely agree the ladder is a shit service, but it seems hypocritical to me that the arguement has been made on this forum many times that Origin is overstepping its bounds by forcing itself to be used with EA games. This seems to me to be one of the few cases where it's either all wrong, or none of it is.

i think the biggest issue is with EA's attitude about dealing with customers and the changing nature of the user agreement on the system

others have said its a drm that keeps track of what you do (to varying degrees on how they word the EULA that day) with games to lure you in

I also dislike the idea of making a game exclusive to any digital distributor, there will always be someone upset with whatever option you choose so why limit the options

 

[Grey Day for Elcia]

Origin hasn't factored into any of my spending; if there's a game I want, I buy it, wherever it is. I've never had to go out of my way to launch it and it's never been a hassle, so I really don't care that it exists--and that is perhaps a larger failure than anything else.

That being said, my money has twice gone straight to EA. Not all a loss for them then. Sneaky bastards

Now dont get me wrong, I respect Steam much more than Origin, and I completely agree the ladder is a shit service

Just for future reference, it's "latter". Not picking on you or trying to be some English elitist. Just pointing that out for you.

 

[OldNewNewOld]

For some reason I get the feeling that even if those air-heads in EA read this article, they will invest a lot of their money and time in finding a excuse for things being as they are instead of investing the same things in fixing that stuff.

But yeah, EA.

It's pretty simple to understand. WB, THQ, Activision, Nintendo, and Ubisoft don't want their games on Origin because it helps a direct competitor.

Seriously? Out of the bazillion of publisher, you write Nintendo?!?
The company that publishes only on their own consoles and has no connection to the PC market at all?

I... I don't even...
facepalm.jpg

 

[mjc0961]

All these posts from people saying they're going to miss Mass Effect 3 because they played the first two on PC and don't want Origin... Let's just say I'm really glad all my Mass Effect saves are on 360 right now. Not gaming on PC when I started playing that franchise is now paying off.

Anyway, great points in the article. Too bad EA thinks too highly of themselves to change anything.

WB, THQ, Activision, Nintendo, and Ubisoft don't want their games on Origin because it helps a direct competitor.

Did you seriously just say Nintendo? NINTENDO?! Nintendo doesn't want their games on anything but their own hardware. Why don't you please explain why Sony also doesn't want their games on Origin while you're on such a great roll here.

 

[Shamus Young]

Used Origin once. From a technical and user-friendly standpoint, their entire purchase process was painfully opaque and ultimately frustrating. At no point during the initial purchase process, made through their site, was confirmation given of such, and when I finally found the support pages, was handed back and forth between separate Origin and EA sites which required me to log in each time. My support options were on-line chat or phone, neither of which were available; the latter due to the time of day, and the former for an unreported reason. If there was some sort of ticket queue for assistance, it's well hidden.

40 minutes later I re-attempted the purchase through the Origin program itself, which processed and spat out a product key. Not the exact product available online, but I was unable to find that one within Origin. Immediately afterwards, I checked my account on the Origin (or EA - I no longer remember which site I was eventually handed off to) webpage and there was no record of the transaction.

Checking email, I had received a receipt. For my first purchase attempt from 45 minutes prior. Neither transaction is on my account page, nor did they appear for the next 3 days; I've long since stopped checking. Only one of them shows in the Origin program; I have since uninstalled it, so I can't tell if the 2nd ever appeared there. I did, however, have both charges on my card.

Waited for on-line chat support to show up as available for half the next day, and made some additional fruitless attempts to find relevant support information from their site. After briefly staring at my phone and wondering if their phone support was as limited and labyrinthine as their website(s), I decided instead, in the spirit of the holiday season, to just give the extra code away.

Was looking forward to Mass Effect 3, but if it really is only available on the PC via Origin, I will never play it. You got your extra money out of me by making your support system more difficult than it was worth the time and effort to fix, so congratulations on that. You will never get another penny out of me.

I'd send this to EA/Origin as feedback, but I'm tired of trying to find useful links on their site. They can come here and figure it out.

 

[Still Life]

But it's possinle I may never play mass effect three. Origin is, as far as I can tell and by all accounts of those who have used it, utterly horrible. Their "privacy" policy (which is essentially how much they loathe the idea that I have a right to any) is an abomination. Their pricing is absurd.

Did you miss the thread where users on the Escapist found that the privacy policy as it currently stands is essentially the same as Steam's?

You don't represent me. I'll get my copy of ME3, complete the single online activation through Origin and have very little to do with the service thereafter.

I agree with the overall sentiment that Origin is gasping for air as it tries to compete with Steam.

 

[Metalrocks]

so true, but ?A will not change their minds since they are too greedy and selfish. they want to spy on people to make sure they can make more money.
really a sad moment for people like me, who like to buy ME3 but dont want to due spyware origin.
i just hope that this open origin will happen. really dont want this crap on my pc.

 

[lowkey_jotunn]

To counter one thing you said here... "If you were actually thinking of your customers (and if you were smart like Valve) then you would give free copies of Mass Effect 1 & 2 on Origin to people who already have copies through Steam."

I've actually put my steam keys (and D2D cd keys) for quite a few EA titles and instantly got access to them on my origin account free of charge (in Origin its under redeem cd key or something like that in the gear menu). I can only think of one title where I wasn't able to do this and it was my D2D copy of the Red Alert 3 expansion thingy, which is old at this point anyhow.

Otherwise, yeah, Origin is fairly stinky, and I agree with all your other points.

If this is true (I don't have Origin to verify) they need to ADVERTISE.

Goes back to the main points of the article, Origin PR is crap. Their games are cheaper when sold by the competition (both steam and used physical copies) their EULA was originally the most draconian in the market, and they're acting like a-holes, and their not advertising what could be a HUUUGE selling point for their system. If every ME owner could pick up Origin copies free of charge, it would boost ME3 sales massively.

I'd like for Origin to succeed. I'd like for their to be honest and genuine competition in the market... but right now, it seems that EA doesn't want these things, and their ass-backwards marketing only furthers the problem.

 

[Callate]

5) EA's Privacy Policy and End User License Agreement is Terrible

I would suggest that everyone who actually got up in arms about this go read Steam's Terms of Service (ToS) and End User License Agreement (EULA). What you find may really surprise you. You'll find the exact same language saying the exact same thing.

That simply isn't true. Honestly, it's so untrue that I have to wonder if either you haven't done this yourself or if you're simply counting on others not doing so and taking you at your word.

Putting aside that agreeing to Origin's user agreement explicitly forbids you from engaging in a jury or class-action lawsuit against the parent company and Steam's does not, EA reserves the right to make a record of non-Origin-related software and peripheral hardware at any time (That's under "2. Consent to Collection and Use of Data"); Valve's policy states that it only collects information about hardware and software in the event of a bug report or system crash. EA also openly states "we and other third parties use cookies and other technologies to passively collect non-personal demographic information, personalize your experience on our sites and monitor advertisements and other activities as described below" (Privacy Policy, IVB,) a notable contrast to Steam's Subscriber Agreement, which states "Valve does use cookies on their websites." And while EA claims not to collect "personally identifiable information", their privacy policy includes under "non personal information" such things as "gender, age, zip code... Internet Protocol (IP) address, network Media Access Control (MAC) address... username, user ID or persona..." Which, if stored together, begins to sound a lot like personal information.

It's been argued that new installers of the "Orange Box" didn't fully understand what they were signing on to, and in many cases, that's probably true. But this "Origin's and Steam's user agreements and privacy policies are exactly alike" line is not, and it needs to stop. I'm getting really tired of this kind of obfuscation of the issue.

 

[Legion]

You know what the sad thing is? Even if this piece somehow got to the deciderers at EA's HQ I'd bet their reaction would be to start doing some mental gymnastics to justify their 'strategies'.

A very sad truth indeed, but that's EA through and through. It's never their fault, for anything they do. It's always somebody elses, or they have "valid reasons" for it which we cannot understand.

The wording used towards critics of Dragon Age 2 were more or less the same on the Bioware forums. "Oh, well we won't take your criticism's seriously as the game is just out, we will wait for a few months down the line when people have calmed down" is more or less what one of the people who worked on it said.

EA are, and always have been, in denial.

 

[Telperion]

I installed Origin, so I could play BF3. I played the game for a while, and then something happened. I think Origin got patched, or something else. Anyway, I was no longer able to run Origin, and therefore no longer able to play BF3. I dutifully contacted tech support, and they flat-out told me to turn off all firewalls, run Origin with Admin privileges and have a nice day. After that I uninstalled Origin, BF3 and swore never to touch this steaming pile of excrement ever again.

Dear EA: I no longer wish to purchase games that require Origin. Have a nice day.