Death By Boring
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I don't think Bob is saying that any of those frameworks can't be used for a genuinely good movie. But they have to actually aspire to be more than said framework. All the movies Bob pointed out are literally "do as little writing work as possible." See every Tyler Perry movie for example. There's 10,000 people and yet zero depth. And yet, if the story was actually compelling, characters were well written, or just something fucking happens that affects the audience (God forbid), then it would be fine. The movies he's pointing out, are literally just concept structures, and then 5 minutes of distinguishing fluff sprayed thinly on. Unfortunately, since we're living in a world where the majority of audiences don't want to be challenged in any way, they'll pay to see this same thing reinforce these same ideas ad nauseum.
What happened? what was missing? because i recall Bob saying that the movie was outdated and getting old already but never said why.Nurb said:
I'm kind of sick of underdog stories period.
Frankly, I'd like to see a story about the "big team." The one with all the sponsors and statistically are expected to win, but the crowds boo them and demand they lose. How could that work?
Well:
1) Don't make the underdog team out to be "loveable goofs." Instead make them arrogant pricks, but of course still have them be the fan favorite. The ones everyone wants to win because they're underdogs after all.
2) Explore what it would be like to be on the team everyone hates. What it is like to be the team where the only ones truly on your side are numbers and statistics. What it feels like to have the "pressure to lose" just so the crowd can have their underdog story on their shoulders.
If you need a real-life event to base this on, look no further then the New England Patriot's near perfect season. The one where they were 16-0, won their playoff games, and then lost the Super Bowl. Just like (nearly) everyone who I heard talk about it wanted it.
Sci-Fi movies with a "twist" involving either it was Earth all along or the protagonist isn't what he thinks he is.
It's not so much it gets done badly so often, but both are such cultural phenomena that it's not really a twist any more; lets face it, if the twist of Avatar was that it was set on Earth and the Na'Vi were the ones pretending to be human and Sam Worthington was really a Na'Vi all along, but just 'forgot' after spending so long in the human chassis that he had to relearn their culture, would anybody have been surprised?
Well that and the fact both have been done so absolutely perfectly before now it's impossible to surpass them.
Well that and I'm partly still bitter about the film A.E. not being a live action remake of Titan A.E.
It's not so much it gets done badly so often, but both are such cultural phenomena that it's not really a twist any more; lets face it, if the twist of Avatar was that it was set on Earth and the Na'Vi were the ones pretending to be human and Sam Worthington was really a Na'Vi all along, but just 'forgot' after spending so long in the human chassis that he had to relearn their culture, would anybody have been surprised?
Well that and the fact both have been done so absolutely perfectly before now it's impossible to surpass them.
Well that and I'm partly still bitter about the film A.E. not being a live action remake of Titan A.E.
Bob ranted about the "Ethnic Minority Achieves Greatness Through Whitey" framework in response to The Help [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/columns/moviebob/6858-The-Bland-Side]. The obvious issue with both is they take away independence and agency away from the minorities while also implying they can only become equal if whitey allows them.yunabomb said:
I can't help but spot the irony of an article simultaneously bemoaning how dull films are when they are about the trivial problems of privileged individuals and also complaining his job as a film critic would be better if people stopped making tired films.
This is a good point and is actually why I'm generally bored by/avoid almost all-things Batman related. I know "the backstory" is only a small fragment and isn't really why anyone really watches/reads Batman.
That said, it's always bothered me that Batman is essentially about an incredibly rich kid who loses his parents and reacts by never growing up and acting out perpetual hero and revenge fantasies. Couldn't he, I dunno, help the city/police force with those funds? Perhaps invest more in the public well-being as opposed to his personal superspy gadgets and bat-themed concept vehicles?
Hate to disappoint you Bob, but these movies will continue to get made. They are safe movies. They will make back their budgets and there will always be audiences for them.
Agree with all of these, but obviously there will always be exceptions to the rule. The Royal Tenenbaums would easily fall into both the "Our not-so-difficult life is surprisingly difficult" and "My huge family is sooooo funny!" but it is one of my favourite movies of all time. Actually now that I think about it, almost every Wes Anderson movie would fall into one or both of those categories, and he's one of my favourite film makers ever.
Your "First World Problems" problem seems a little hypocritcal to me. "I hate it when people worse off than me point out that my problems are pretty insignificant compared to theirs... but fuck the really rich people for being embroiled in relatively insignificant problems!"
Usually, it's not people worse off pointing it out, though. Its usually people in practically the exact same situation (first world low-mid-upper middle class) pointing out that there are some hypothetical people in some foreign land (which they've never been to) that are worse off.Tohoya said:
And for what? Mostly just to troll.
It seems to me it'd be an empty film for Sly or Arnold to return to either way because they can't fake their age. That picture of Arnold at the pool that's made the rounds showcases that he just can't muster the Mister Olympia physique anymore. That's life. So if we throw him in an action film based on that physique, the only ones it appeals to are the people that remember his early films. Teens may well not be familiar with them and just see another action film with a lackluster albeit humorous protagonist.
I don't know, I don't watch as many films as I used to. Perhaps that's why I liked Fast 5.
Dwayne Johnson has not had a spectacular run as an action star, and I'd say this is partially to do with the films and the scripts portraying him as a badass all while being a nice guy. Those two don't seem to mix. This is beside the point however: I think that if they got a badass beefcake with a personality, they could much more effectively recapture that 80's film glory. It might not be the top grossing movie, but it seems to me it'd have more appeal than these 2, or Red. Banking on the title will work for awhile, and with a stocked roster Red was guaranteed to break even, but I personally am not fond of these old people are action-heroes films. They seem almost like something your parents would watch on CBS.
I don't know, I don't watch as many films as I used to. Perhaps that's why I liked Fast 5.
Dwayne Johnson has not had a spectacular run as an action star, and I'd say this is partially to do with the films and the scripts portraying him as a badass all while being a nice guy. Those two don't seem to mix. This is beside the point however: I think that if they got a badass beefcake with a personality, they could much more effectively recapture that 80's film glory. It might not be the top grossing movie, but it seems to me it'd have more appeal than these 2, or Red. Banking on the title will work for awhile, and with a stocked roster Red was guaranteed to break even, but I personally am not fond of these old people are action-heroes films. They seem almost like something your parents would watch on CBS.
I wish Medea and the Witness protection program wasn't the art for this, looking at it all week is testing =(. A friend of mine FORCED me to watch that stupid movie and I've never ever been so surprised by how bad a movie was in a cold sit down... so please go away and stop reminding me of that.
What about the following genres;
Serious buddy and Funny buddy are on a quest to fulfill whichever of these buddy's obsessions AKA every Pixar movies.
or
Average dude gets a super power. Struggle to balance his life between using it for good and his personal issues with his friends and family AKA every super hero movies.
or
Will Farrell AKA every Will Farrell movies.
Not that I mind any of these genre. Just that if you look for it, you can find annoying patterns in about everything.
Serious buddy and Funny buddy are on a quest to fulfill whichever of these buddy's obsessions AKA every Pixar movies.
or
Average dude gets a super power. Struggle to balance his life between using it for good and his personal issues with his friends and family AKA every super hero movies.
or
Will Farrell AKA every Will Farrell movies.
Not that I mind any of these genre. Just that if you look for it, you can find annoying patterns in about everything.
Kind of a random thought here but recently I found myself watching "Predators", which is basically Predator 3 but without Arnold. Anyway I couldn't help but notice how, well, slim everyone was this time around, in comparison to the original two. Sometimes I miss that hammy, over-the-top warrior sort of film. That being said I did feel it was decently entertaining and worth a watch though.
You know, they went over how bad for audiences RomComs really are on the latest episode of After Hours on Cracked.com. One of the ideas thrown around was that they imply women are incomplete without a man, no matter how successful they are careerwise.Nurb said:
There are two answers to that from two different perspectives. First, the real-world one, because that's the most obvious: That would be INCREDIBLY BORING TO WATCH AND READ! Well adjusted rich guy throws money at his hometown's problems and they're fixed for good? There's no story there!Pheonixe said:
Second, the in-universe one: there are just some kinds of criminals that the police and other conventional law enforcement agencies are unable to catch and (if whoever's writing it demands drama and upping the stakes) are basically cannon fodder, so Gotham City needs guys like Batman and his ilk to take them on. Seeing as how Gotham just attracts the criminally insane, the GCPD need all the help they can get.