Declining quality of TWD

[Baron_BJ]

My problem with The Walking Dead is that I don't feel like there's any point it's heading toward.

That's what was so strong about the Telltale game; Lee had the personal issue of being a former convict that drove him throughout the entire game; it was all about his redemption arc. And with Season 2 coming up, the main character baton has been passed to Clementine so now we continue her story of growing up in this newly fucked up world. But with the show...I should care about these people more. I should know what their personal issues are and what's driving them to keep going. I'm one of those guys that's lenient on the "stupid decisions" if I can at least understand WHY a character like that would make that decision. Problem is...I don't really understand what makes these characters tick anymore. Also it got WAY too morally simplistic by the mid-point of Season 3. THAT'S when I checked out

Everyone gives a lot of shit to Season 2, but for all it's ups and downs what I did like about it was the Rick vs. Shane feud that was culminating throughout. I like seeing two different ideals butting heads like that and seeing who's going to be right in the end; is Rick's Good Guy Diplomatic approach the right way to protect the group, or is Shane's Fuck It Do Whatever You Gotta approach the right one? Ultimately Rick won out, and I wanted to see the ramifications of that decision in Season 3. Maybe second-guess himself and maybe think "Was I the right choice to lead this group?" Stuff like that. And it looked like we might get just that when Woodbury was introduced. The Governor actually held down a pretty damn legit setup and seemed to be the right man to lead those civilians. Sure he had to go to....extreme measures...to keep weapon stock, but hey, gotta do what ya gotta do. So when Rick and crew bumrush the place , I wanted a civilian of Woodbury to confront them on what they did. Go like "Dude! WTF! We had a great setup here and you fucked it up! Why?! :'(" Something like THAT would've totally fucked with Rick's head and you could go a ton of different places from there.

Buuuuut instead they made Rick's group the unquestionable good guys and The Governor the cartoonishly evil asshole he was in the comics. Ironic how Season 2 suffered because they didn't follow the comics close enough, but in the very next season it still suffered for following the comics TOO much.

With a show like, say, Game of Thrones, there's a ton going on and they're killing off people left and right, but there's still an endgoal/light at the end of the tunnel: Who's going to ultimately win the Iron Throne? With The Walking Dead, what's the endgoal? Where is all this chaos going? When's it all coming to a head and give us a fitting, satisfying conclusion to the story of Rick and his crew? Simply put, WHAT'S THE POINT of this story? To me that's the biggest problem TWD is facing now. It's not really ABOUT anything other than "run from crazies and zombies."

I never like the fact that Rick comic book personality was split in half between the TV Rick and Shane. Comic book Rick was a diplomat until shit turn real then, was more of what ever it takes to get it done. Hell he was more of get it done by what ever it means as time passed as he was hardened by the environment and loss over time.

This is a major problem these people have hit on a major issue that show has going forward. The show is based on the comics and Rick is the main character; Rick's entire character arc in the comics has him becoming more and more deranged, more willing to do what has to be done to protect his group and moreover his son (flat out saying he would abandon anyone if his son was put at risk). You can't really call Rick a good man anymore, just that he's one of the best one's left. There's also parts where he and the group have done things that would be considered by many audiences to be flat out wrong and make many people find it impossible to sympathize with the characters anymore.

Examples of things Rick has done that would fall under this umbrella:

Spoiler

1. After Dale was captured by a group of cannibals who ate his foot (they were keeping him alive so that he wouldn't turn, thereby making him inedible) after he was bitten (Dale concealed this fact from everyone and had wandered off on his own so that he could die without endangering the group), this cost the group their last moments with Dale, leading a large portion of the angered group to hunt the cannibal group down and torture them for their own pleasure, going so far as to flay and burn them alive.
2. After falling in love with a woman there ends up a circumstance where she has been bitten and is being held back by a group of zombies and she is holding onto Carl (Rick's son, I never remember his name) pleading for help, seeing that she's already been bitten Rick chooses to force her to rapidly release him (she wasn't letting go) by ruining her hand with the swing of an axe and leaving her to buy them time.

Because of TV, the audience, and content ratings this character arc will NEVER be explored and where does that leave the show? It leaves it with a main character that can't have an arc and is therefor boring.

Also, for those of you who are wondering about the show's drastic quality change, this is because the first season was directed by Frank Darabont, the man who directed the Shawshank Redemption and The Green Mile, they've since cut the budget of the show with every successive season (because AMC is run by gibbering fucking chimps) and replaced the directors every season.

 

[Xathos]

I like the show a bit actually. Its not "OMG amazing" levels of awesomeness, but it isn't "Jesus Chirst why does this show even EXIST?!" either. I find it good;, not great, but good. There are times where I have to wonder if the increase of episodes they do actually sort of hurt it or not, but usually when I watch an episode I enjoy it.

Season 2 was such a slog though. Ugh. It picked up near the end a lot, but jeez. Watching that season week after week was hard, though I imagine watching it back to back on DVD/Blu-ray might lessen the bad parts a lot (hopefully?). The latter half of season 3 wasn't anywhere NEAR as bad as most of Season 2, but it did feel like they dragged out a lot of things because they had to fill the episode quota.

Season 4 so far has been...interesting. I liked what they did with the prison situation, but from a overall standpoint I can't help but feel it seemed a bit...filler? I mean, it was good filler (again, when compared to season 2. Ugh.) but hopefully they bring those plot points up again or else it'll be really weird. Dat Carol character arc though! Loved it. Mid season finale was really great too, although I was a little shocked at how fast they closed it off. Spoilers below.

Spoiler

I thought we were at LEAST going to get some more Governor centric episodes. Like, maybe 2 more to really get a hang on this new group of people he met. Was disappointed that didn't happen. I liked how he killed those guys and basically took control and sweet talked everyone into going after the prison, because I think that's when the Governor is at his best. Still it was odd. "Let's build him up to have his own separate storyline to mirror the prison people. While they lost so much, the Governor will gain so much. Whoops, only one episode left for this half of the season, better wrap it up! LOL!"

Also, this season introduced a lot of side characters that I actually sort of liked...only to kill them off so easily within an episode or less. Like...damn, its OK to kill off some of the main cast guys.

But seriously, hopefully they bring up this infection bleeding zombie stuff again or its going to be a bit weird.

Quite a lot of people complain about how stupid the characters in the show are, but I've never really noticed? I mean, nothing super annoying or stupid that left an impression anyway (save for a certain car scene in season 2...Ugh), and nothing that couldn't be handwaved away with some reasonably acceptable excuses. Then again, I think I'm also one of the few not bothered by Carl or Andrea so...eh.

The show HAS gotten better I feel, but it does have its dips that I think you notice more than other shows. Not a bad show at all.

Will always love Telltale's Walking Dead more though.

 

[FPLOON]

I will keep watching it because I have TV watching stubbornness syndrome.

I have that for any show I watch... I see to it to the end, and then I evaluate if it was all worth it in the long run...

OT: Eh... It's always the start of the season and the mid-season and/or season finale I really focus on, since I seem to enjoy those episodes the most overall... Everything else (and more) is covered by the post-show commentary and that's when I start paying attention before I decide to "re-watch" the episode again (with more focus) or not before tuning in to Comic Book Men shorty after...

Frankly, it's going to be a while before the show does it's final run, so I'm mostly enjoying how much they deviate from the comics... The comics, thenselves... eh... I might get back to them at some point, but for right now, I'm just more excited for Season 2 of TWD game...

 

[xshadowscreamx]

I don't know about declining in quality, even the most meh episodes of TWD is still better then any reality show.

 

[Rebel_Raven]

TWD's still good on my end. Interesting scenes, character development, Maggie, zombie killing, slice of life, Oh, and Maggie.

Not sure what people are expecting here. Rolling down highways, smashing zombies with a

Spoiler

<youtube=cDoRmT0iRic>

with people hanging on the roof shooting the leftovers with assault rifles, and shotguns, and leaving an endless path of fire from alcohol, gas?

Continued warfare against other humans like some war comic/show? Coz there's bound to be millions of survivors looking to be suicidal and throw their lives away in combat, getting picked off like fodder by the main cast?
Killing off other humans too quickly, too often will eventually make someone pause, and say "Geez, a lot of humans survived! Where's the apocalypse part? And where were they before?" Also killing them off will make the plot pretty dull because they can't add much more to the plot.

People are trying to survive, not win the war against the zombies.

 

[Imperioratorex Caprae]

So basically what you're saying is the Walking Dead died at some point in its run, rose from the grave and now continues only to eat the brains of those who seek to consume it? Hrm... I wonder what category that falls under.

 

[beastro]

Actually enjoyed season 2 more than 3 because of the Governor and his antics. I guess the appeal of the show for getting into it was thinking it was going to explore the ramifications of living life in an apocalypse, but then I found out it was based on a comic book and, boy, did the Governor prove that - even the shows Governor.

What's really pissed me off this season is the stupid decision of a certain someone with regard to preventing the fever outbreak and them actually trying to toy with the Gov for a whole episode only to have him start right back where he left off. To me, the ending of that episode just made the whole thing futile and really wasted a chance spin him in a sympathetic light, David Morrissey certainly did a good job working that way.

But no, they stuck with the comic book villain instead of actually trying to portray him as breaking down and finally realizing what a total monster he'd been and making an honest effort to change and prove that he has.

To me, the ending of that should have set an arc that began with Phil walking right up to the prison, letting him know he's there and that he knows people that need his help, Rick and Co. will take them in, but not him - his group, after all he'd done for them, back him saying they won't join without him and Rick giving in.

Then that sets it up where the Gov is the focus stresser within the prison with both sides getting along, but one wanting him dead and the other guarding his back.

... but that would make him into the central character and they're too focused on Rick being overly sensitive and not hardening up like I hoped he would've after the end of season 2.

I just hope all the odd looks Carl gives him are deliberate and sets up foreshadowing as he grows up and matures. Over time he realizes this is his world now he's the only one with a mind that really wants to live and build a life, that his fathers stuck in the past, trying to make the old world become new again and that he looks on Rick as good example of trying to preserve civilization, but pities him recognizing he tries to hold on to too much of once was it makes him weak.

IMO, a good end to the series would be father and son clashing over an issue and it being serious enough that Carl puts him down, because his way of thinking now does more harm than good.

 

[likalaruku]

I just got bored of it, & annoyed that it didn't follow the comics. I kinda liked knowing what would happen ahead of time. Also Rick was a total douche by season 2 & I didn't care if he lived or died. I even tried the first episode of the TellTale game, since it had a different cast, but knowing that all of my comrads were expendable didn't make me want to play anymore episodes, even though each death effected the game differently.

Michonne & Daryl were cool though.

 

[UniversalRonin]

The first series was ace. The second one had moments of brilliance, and the third one, I got bored and stopped watching it. I've only read the first volume, (through curiosity) and I have the second one ready to read, but I always manage to find something else that looks more worth while before I ever get round to it.

 

[Redlin5_v1legacy]

As Sassafrass will no doubt bother me about it again, I have yet to play any of the games. I did read all of the hardcover collection of the comics my sister has and really enjoyed them. I've been wanting to catch up with it for a while now.

I couldn't really care less about the show. Don't really watch TV much anymore. GoT interests me more but I care about the paper media more in that series too so I don't feel bad about falling behind. One of these days I'll watch season 2.

 

[ServebotFrank]

Actually enjoyed season 2 more than 3 because of the Governor and his antics. I guess the appeal of the show for getting into it was thinking it was going to explore the ramifications of living life in an apocalypse, but then I found out it was based on a comic book and, boy, did the Governor prove that - even the shows Governor.

What's really pissed me off this season is the stupid decision of a certain someone with regard to preventing the fever outbreak and them actually trying to toy with the Gov for a whole episode only to have him start right back where he left off. To me, the ending of that episode just made the whole thing futile and really wasted a chance spin him in a sympathetic light, David Morrissey certainly did a good job working that way.

But no, they stuck with the comic book villain instead of actually trying to portray him as breaking down and finally realizing what a total monster he'd been and making an honest effort to change and prove that he has.

To me, the ending of that should have set an arc that began with Phil walking right up to the prison, letting him know he's there and that he knows people that need his help, Rick and Co. will take them in, but not him - his group, after all he'd done for them, back him saying they won't join without him and Rick giving in.

Then that sets it up where the Gov is the focus stresser within the prison with both sides getting along, but one wanting him dead and the other guarding his back.

... but that would make him into the central character and they're too focused on Rick being overly sensitive and not hardening up like I hoped he would've after the end of season 2.

I just hope all the odd looks Carl gives him are deliberate and sets up foreshadowing as he grows up and matures. Over time he realizes this is his world now he's the only one with a mind that really wants to live and build a life, that his fathers stuck in the past, trying to make the old world become new again and that he looks on Rick as good example of trying to preserve civilization, but pities him recognizing he tries to hold on to too much of once was it makes him weak.

IMO, a good end to the series would be father and son clashing over an issue and it being serious enough that Carl puts him down, because his way of thinking now does more harm than good.

Watch the behind the scenes of the episodes, they give insight into the writing of the episodes. They stated that the whole point of the Governor episodes was to let the audience and the Governor think that he was a changed man. The Governors' big character flaw was that he let emotion get the best of him and was what ruined his life. The whole point of him relapsing into his Governor persona was to show that he was a monster, monster's don't change that easily and can fall back into their old ways pretty fast if they let themselves.

Spoiler: Season 4 stuff

The Governor kills Martinez because he was letting slip the past that the Governor wished to forget and was tempting him with leadership again, something he didn't want. I wouldn't be surprised if he gained leadership in Woodbury unwillingly and overtime showed to not be able to handle it. He killed the next leader because it became apparent that he had to be leader if his family was to survive. He needed a new spot for his group in case a herd came through so he checked out the prison, saw Michonne and Hershel, let emotion get the better of him and attacked them.

The writers confirmed that the Governor really did wish to the take the prison peacefully but he had spent so much time lying to himself about the people in the prison that he had a hard time accepting Rick's peace offer and let impulse kill Hershel

I personally don't get why the Governor is said to be too close a mustache twirling villain like his comic book counterpart yet his comic book character is far worse. The comic Governor would kill random strangers for no reason other than to be a dick, the TV show one would offer them shelter. He also forced everyone in line like a dictator and ruled by fear in the comic, in the TV show he seems to be respected and followed. I don't get why people say he's too villainous, most comic book fans complained that he was way too tame and was portrayed really sympathetically.

 

[beastro]

Watch the behind the scenes of the episodes, they give insight into the writing of the episodes. They stated that the whole point of the Governor episodes was to let the audience and the Governor think that he was a changed man. The Governors' big character flaw was that he let emotion get the best of him and was what ruined his life. The whole point of him relapsing into his Governor persona was to show that he was a monster, monster's don't change that easily and can fall back into their old ways pretty fast if they let themselves.

The flaw in that line of logic is that monsters do change.

I have first hand experience with such people - they don't budge one inch and only appear to out of necessity in circumstances Gov has never been in. I think that's why I find the episode such a waste.

He also forced everyone in line like a dictator and ruled by fear in the comic, in the TV show he seems to be respected and followed. I don't get why people say he's too villainous, most comic book fans complained that he was way too tame and was portrayed really sympathetically.

The issue is he's stuck in the middle - still too outlandish for a grounded show, but too grounded compared to the comic book.

My issue is that we see far too little of him being respectable to believe that people would be so loyal to him while seeing him be far too unstable for people not to treat him with a huge helping of suspicion.

 

[Something Amyss]

No offense, but haven't people been complaining it was going downhill since the second episode/comic? It seems like this is the only constant in the series.

 

[Silvanus]

I have to say, as disappointed as I've recently been, I really enjoyed the last episode.

Most of all I'm glad they're moving again. The quality of the show is always best when they're travelling.

 

[Greymanelor]

The comic book series ended for me at the end of issue 24, during the prison arc, at the moment when Rick said his iconic line. I continued to follow the series well beyond that, but it quickly turned into a habit than a pleasure and I retroactively ended the series in my mind on that line. After that moment the comic merely turned into an exercise in how little effort an author could put into a "shock" comic and still make sales. It was a death march, boring and cruel and with no worthwhile end in sight.

The TV series held my interest longer. Unlike many people, I enjoyed the second season. Maybe it was just because I've read enough manga and watched enough anime where chapter after chapter, episode after episode, the story remains deadlocked in a location while nothing of consequence happens. By comparison, the second season of The Walking Dead was downright brisk.

By the end of the third season, I'd stopped caring. I watched to the conclusion of the season, but the moment it really died for me was the hitchhiker. Instead of rising above the comic book, it just followed it down, if on a slightly different road. I'm not interested in the adventures of wretched, unlikable people in a hopeless world.