I agree that Bioware should make dating sims instead of RPGs although I can't see them doing well with the sim part so should just go straight to making romantic visual novels. Possibly they could get the licence to the Twilight novels.
Deeper relationship mechanics in RPG's=Dating-sim territory
- Thread starter Negatempest
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Well, the basic trail of thought is that the Dating-sim would be a mini game within the RPG. It is something to enjoy on the side rather than being the "main" part of the game. You want a relationship with an NPC? Simple, but you gotta play the dating-sim to do it.
It adds a fun new dimension to a game, it makes you feel like you affect the game world a lot more, it makes me grin like an idiot, and again, it's fun. Say what you will about the quality of Bioware's love interests; just the fact that they have any at all while still remaining "mainstream" is something to be celebrated. I remember having a drunk conversation in a bar with several friends ("casual" gamers at best) about Mass Effect 2 and the love interests in it, and everyone treated it as a good thing.
The more you want your games to be considered "art imitating life", the more you're gonna have to deal with real life situations, and that means friendships, love, and sometimes sex. How you deal with them is up to the game itself, but it'd be nice to see someone major like Bioware go all the way and make a proper dating sim undercurrent, instead of a glorified friendship meter like someone else on this thread mentioned.
Long story short: it's a pretty damn fun, it should be in more games, and we shouldn't have to be "ashamed" of it for any reason; most of us know how to separate reality and fiction and enjoy the two on their own merits. Also, sometimes you just wanna date a green skinned space babe/stud.
The more you want your games to be considered "art imitating life", the more you're gonna have to deal with real life situations, and that means friendships, love, and sometimes sex. How you deal with them is up to the game itself, but it'd be nice to see someone major like Bioware go all the way and make a proper dating sim undercurrent, instead of a glorified friendship meter like someone else on this thread mentioned.
Long story short: it's a pretty damn fun, it should be in more games, and we shouldn't have to be "ashamed" of it for any reason; most of us know how to separate reality and fiction and enjoy the two on their own merits. Also, sometimes you just wanna date a green skinned space babe/stud.
I love that game and still play it from time to time. For those who don't know, it is an isometric rogue-like game with two main parts - climbing levels of a procedurally generated tower filled with monsters in pursuit of monster eggs (which you can hatch and train to assist you in the next foray) and money. The rest of the time is spent in the town at the base of the tower, investing the money in upgrades to the town and pursuing romantic interests with several girls.NeutralDrow said:
Compulsive!
I agree with Deskimus. I don't think people actually want a dating sim when they complain about relationships in, say for example, Bioware games. Romance can be a big part of a fantasy storyline, just look at the final fantasy games. It can be effective if it's done well. Think about Oblivion, don't you think it's odd that there is this whole world full of characters and not one of them finds your character attractive. That would be unrealistic. Romance, love and sex are a part of life why can't it be a part of games to without someone calling 'sad nerdyness' at it
Edit: I played Azure Dreams it was a pretty awesome game. The cute anime girls your character could help and romance were tasteful too, although I don't agree with cheating on people. I particularly remember the one in the library with the big glasses lol.
Edit: I played Azure Dreams it was a pretty awesome game. The cute anime girls your character could help and romance were tasteful too, although I don't agree with cheating on people. I particularly remember the one in the library with the big glasses lol.
I wouldn't mind seeing a couple of dating sims on the market if not for the simple effort to try and prove that it is possible to have a good game where the primary aim isn't mass murder. Might be a good chance for the RPG to evolve and escape from the horrible pits of EAs childishness and Square Enix's complete and utter lack of talent.
I understand where you are coming from, I do. I am not here to say your wrong, but to put in my own opinion, not fact.xXxJessicaxXx said:
Final Fantasy did do "romance" to a certain degree. Sure, they would hug and kiss, but this was usually done as part of the main plot/story. You usually don't get a choice of who your love interest is and just take what is given to you. This isn't bad, but it is not really an interaction with the story, but more like going with the flow. If a romance is more or less given to the player through the story, where the story is a 1st party perspective instead of a 3rd party perspective, than you care for the characters happiness/success but not through your own effort. Kinda like cheering for the success of the prince getting the attention of the princess. You "care", but you don't care in the personal level. Again, not bad but not what player wants in a game bioware usually does.
To get attention from the love interest that is not connected to plot progress is what is being asked for. But to do so goes deep into Dating-sim territory. To go on a unscripted date, to get a gift, to make your relation enjoy your company, all of this is done in Dating-sims. Sure they are there to further the plot of a dating-sim. But to add such a mechanic to an RPG like DA:Origins in no way would effect the overall plot at all, it would effect the players perspective/attraction to the love relation.
Again, I can go into even more detail, but well that would give another paragraph or two to add...
I've never cared for relationships in RPGs, I just kill things. Sure you can have some funny or interesting dialogue with people, but I'm not gonna go outta my way to be friends with people.
Nor would you have to, that is the beauty of it. It is a side option for those that want a deeper relationship mechanic added to games like Fallout and Dragon Age. But "if" you want a deeper relationship game mechanic, you gotta go into dating-sim territory.SL33TBL1ND said:
It would be great, and enjoyable and all those things, and the best part is that we are getting closer and closer to it. Consider that while not including the level of depth you've recommended, there are games in the modern gaming generation that come close, and other games that could benefit tremendously. Consider Mass Effect. You had options to romance many different people, male or female. A lot of it was dialogue trees, which dialogue was kind of important anyway, and I would never recommend doing away with that. That being said, it sort of had a small element of what you were recommending in that the character could place their love interest in their party, and would have to for that person's personal missions (I forget their technical name). There would have to be expansions on this, which part of that would be things like including perhaps an arena mini-game, or dangerous worlds to explore with no necessary story to said missions, things like that.
As far as games where they weren't included but could benefit, well, in Fallout 3 you have a companion system, including a part where you try to learn more about your companions. Imagine if that were expanded (and I realize it would have to include probably more female companion options... maybe). Imagine for example the battle robot. Maybe the next time you walk into a bar, or a city in game, after developing quite the repore (spelling incorrect, bad with French) with... it, I guess... It spontaneously floats off to a corner on its own and says "Sir! Follow me Sir!" Then when you do follow him, it results in some dialogue, maybe starting out with "Sir! Wishing to report on that human over there! Sensors indicate elevated perspiration, accelerated pulse, and a flush complexion when looking at you, Sir! I believe she is attracted to you, Sir! Do you wish to hear a recommendation of action, Sir?"
Ok, dropping that for a minute... imagine Fawkes. Imagine your female character and Fawkes, complete with all of his self-consciousness and philosophy. Imagine watching the internal turmoil in Fawkes (this would require some facial emotions of course... might be a bit much to ask of those designers
) and the philosophical babble when Fawkes realizes that you and he just had "a moment."
Imagine finding a more human side to Charon. Imagine taking down a small town in a fit of bloodlust and regularly lustful glee with Jericho.
Imagine if the mechanic was just as simple as you and your companion alternating playing wingman to get you into whatever relationships in game you and your companion do other than with your companion, and then after that you help each other troubleshoot those relationship like real best-friends would That would add a significant amount of depth to the game, and honestly, RPGs are where the human element is most useful and most easily expressed for games. Also, strange as it may sound, this would probably interest female gamers a significant amount. Although, that being said, the question now becomes include it as an optional side quest with sections integrated into normal gameplay, or have it as an entire part of the gameplay non-exclusive?
As far as games where they weren't included but could benefit, well, in Fallout 3 you have a companion system, including a part where you try to learn more about your companions. Imagine if that were expanded (and I realize it would have to include probably more female companion options... maybe). Imagine for example the battle robot. Maybe the next time you walk into a bar, or a city in game, after developing quite the repore (spelling incorrect, bad with French) with... it, I guess... It spontaneously floats off to a corner on its own and says "Sir! Follow me Sir!" Then when you do follow him, it results in some dialogue, maybe starting out with "Sir! Wishing to report on that human over there! Sensors indicate elevated perspiration, accelerated pulse, and a flush complexion when looking at you, Sir! I believe she is attracted to you, Sir! Do you wish to hear a recommendation of action, Sir?"
Ok, dropping that for a minute... imagine Fawkes. Imagine your female character and Fawkes, complete with all of his self-consciousness and philosophy. Imagine watching the internal turmoil in Fawkes (this would require some facial emotions of course... might be a bit much to ask of those designers
) and the philosophical babble when Fawkes realizes that you and he just had "a moment."Really, I mean it, this is a big hypothetical swap for the ending of the game, therefore, big
Imagine if at the end, when you've developed enough of a mutual attraction, when you decide to sacrifice yourself to bring pure, clean water to the rest of the waste, Fawkes shoves you down, runs for the door, and shuts it before you can get up again. In fact, this was something that bugged me, because after all, the super mutants had a significantly higher tolerance of radiation than normal humans. Imagine if after that, you get the story of how after weeks of de-glow-in-the-darking and recovering in the airlock for the chamber, Fawkes and your character enjoy a tearful reunion, and what's more, you can continue playing to finish the side quests you didn't do or what have you?
Imagine if the mechanic was just as simple as you and your companion alternating playing wingman to get you into whatever relationships in game you and your companion do other than with your companion, and then after that you help each other troubleshoot those relationship like real best-friends would That would add a significant amount of depth to the game, and honestly, RPGs are where the human element is most useful and most easily expressed for games. Also, strange as it may sound, this would probably interest female gamers a significant amount. Although, that being said, the question now becomes include it as an optional side quest with sections integrated into normal gameplay, or have it as an entire part of the gameplay non-exclusive?
Didn't read the OP did you? No, not mad or trying to go for attention. In short, "caring" for video game characters is taboo for some reason. But if you wanted to play a game that had a relationship mechanic in it, it would have to be like a dating-sim to be interactive instead of just a pure visual performance. aka, a game within a game.TestECull said:
Did the thread name get a face-lift so it'd seem less creepy or something?
Sorry but I find that hilarious.
Sorry but I find that hilarious
.
@Dreiko
-yes
-thread title didn't match what I was trying to say
@TestECull
So, you replied to a thread, discussing how a deep interactive relationship would have to become like a dating-sim, to say that you don't want a interactive relationship? I could understand that. I also said that movie and book characters are just as fake, but I don't want to get into that. So, i'll respect your wish than.
-yes
-thread title didn't match what I was trying to say
@TestECull
So, you replied to a thread, discussing how a deep interactive relationship would have to become like a dating-sim, to say that you don't want a interactive relationship? I could understand that. I also said that movie and book characters are just as fake, but I don't want to get into that. So, i'll respect your wish than.
TestECull said:
I don't think of game characters as NPCs or not, they're all characters, I've certainly come to care in different ways about a bunch of characters. If you've never come to care in any form about any game character I feel sorry for you.
If you have, then you can certainly imagine how it's possible for it to happen in different ways. Granted, I'm not taking it as far as to suggest anything remotely close to 2D-con but more to the way any character in any media can be cared for.
As for believability, why does this matter? I know that suspending disbelief and blindly accepting the game world's facts as the reality you should base your judgments upon is the best way to properly experience them.
Actually I like RPGs with a dating sim in it it made it much more fun then the adverage RPG and also I hate already made characters, I like making my own character (Shepard is an exeption)with his onw love intrest....
While I'm not sure I'd ever play a full on dating sim, simply because I like there to be a little more going on in my games than just that, I do agree that RPGs with relationship systems could probably stand to learn a decent bit from the dating sim genre.
To see a video game character beyond the simple 4th wall issues is difficult. Though my main point is slightly missed. If a deeper relationship mechanic is asked for in an RPG, than it also has to be interactive to keep it from being a simple cut-scene/part of the video games main plot. So an deep interactive relationship is well, a dating-sim. If you don't want to play it, it's cool. But to not want it in a video game at all is, odd.