Define "A Well Writen Gay Character" in Gaming.

[Vegosiux]

To me a well-written gay character is one that's played exactly like a straight character, except his/her love interest is the same sex. No flamboyant gays, no in-the-closet either unless it's a plot point. Just be a person, character!

Apparently that's how you're supposed to write a strong female character. 'Write a man, and then give him boobs.'

Actually, that just seems to be the basic template for everything. 'Write a stereotypical white man, then turn him into . Boom, well written '.

Oh by the nine hells of Baator, you've just pulled a Sergio Ramos.

You know, if you do that, you've done precisely what is necessary to fail. If you do that, the "exception" to the "stereotypical" cookie cutter becomes the sole defining characteristic, an as mentioned a couple of times in this thread, that's a fail.

If you take a cookie cutter blank and stick something on it, you've not created a wholesome cookie.

 

[TKretts3]

I'd guess just write a character well, and make him gay/make her lesbian.
I'm gay and I really don't see the difference between gay/lesbian people and straight people other than their orientations. Their attitude, personality, beliefs will all come from what they experience in life. Yes, being gay/lesbian may open up some more experiences, but being gay/lesbian in itself isn't going to automatically make someone act a certain way.

EDIT: Oh, and one more thing. If you're writing a character that just runs around yelling, "I'M HERE, I'M QUEER, GET USED TO IT" 24/7, tells everyone that they are gay as a first sentence, and never drops the subject, then you're doing it wrong.

 

[Kopikatsu]

To me a well-written gay character is one that's played exactly like a straight character, except his/her love interest is the same sex. No flamboyant gays, no in-the-closet either unless it's a plot point. Just be a person, character!

Apparently that's how you're supposed to write a strong female character. 'Write a man, and then give him boobs.'

Actually, that just seems to be the basic template for everything. 'Write a stereotypical white man, then turn him into . Boom, well written '.

Oh by the nine hells of Baator, you've just pulled a Sergio Ramos.

You know, if you do that, you've done precisely what is necessary to fail. If you do that, the "exception" to the "stereotypical" cookie cutter becomes the sole defining characteristic, an as mentioned a couple of times in this thread, that's a fail.

See the edit, which I will now pose to you.

Warrant Officer Ripley of the Aliens franchise is widely considered one of the best female characters of all time. Would her role have changed significantly (or at all) if she were a man?

Gender, race, sexual orientation, etc are defining characteristics. They are not, and should not be the defining characteristic, but playing on those stereotypes doesn't automatically make the character bad. What I'm saying is that you can't make someone's defining traits purely cosmetic (as is the case with most "strong [insert blank here] character's") because then it defeats the purpose of them having those traits in the first place. It's tacked on.

This shouldn't be taken as me implying something like 'gay men should speak with a lisp and/or love fashion' or something. I'm just saying that those characteristics should be made apparent in some capacity outside of you simply being told or shown (in a purely superficial way) that it is so.

Edit: For this reason, the best gay character that I have seen in any media, I think, is Richard Foley from Static Shock. He's never explicitly stated to be gay within the show, but it's strongly hinted at in a number of different ways. To give one example, he's always very quick to assert his masculinity and act overly 'macho' in front of girls. Basically overdoing the entire thing. It's rather clear that he's simply playing the part that he thinks that he's supposed to play and trying to deflect attention from himself.

Edit 2: Who is Sergio Ramos, by the way? Google just brings up a soccer player.

Edit 3: AngloDoom's reasoning is in line with my own, although his is worded better. See his post for clarity if mine is too difficult to understand. It's 3:20AM and I can't be assed to write coherently.

 

[Reaper195]

...Gay Tony, in GTA4 (Episodes, but whatever). He was a very detailed character with personality. And he wasn't a cliche gay stereotype (unlike that one guy who he's shagging). He was also pretty cool guy.

 

[b3nn3tt]

I'm pretty much going to agree with the vast majority who have already posted and say that a well-written character that happens to be gay is a well-written gay character. I think the larger problem is that most characters in gaming aren't well-written in the first place, and tend to fall back on easy stereotypes and tropes. How many protagonists' sole driving force is saving the world, or rescuing a loved one? How many antagonists do what they do for a reason other than 'for teh evulz'? Because it's easy to fall back on character traits like these, is it any wonder that gay characters are often written as steretypical?

Basically, writers should make sure that all characters are fully fleshed-out and well-written with no regards whatsoever to their sexual orientation. From there, they can decide which charatcers, if any, need their orientation defined for story purposes, and work from there.

 

[AngloDoom]

Eh, I wouldn't say "not making a big deal out of it" is a well-written character either. If they later declared that Gordon Freeman was gay, he still wouldn't be 'well-written' because he has no character to start with.

I'd say a well-written gay character is just a well-written character who's sexuality is just as important to them as a heterosexual character's love for their wife/lover is to them. Having someone's sexuality as 'unimportant' isn't well written, but making their sexuality significant but subtle: otherwise you might as well leave sexuality out of it.

I'm assuming that if a game starts exploring the character's sexualities, then a well-written gay character would be one who has significantly different life experiences to that of a heterosexual character, or we could just start keeping all game character's love-interests and calling them 'Sam' so it could go either way.

EDIT - I'm going to be without internet for a day or so, and I sense this may get quoted. Please be patient if you want a reply, amigos.

 

[Nieroshai]

To me a well-written gay character is one that's played exactly like a straight character, except his/her love interest is the same sex. No flamboyant gays, no in-the-closet either unless it's a plot point. Just be a person, character!

Apparently that's how you're supposed to write a strong female character. 'Write a man, and then give him boobs.'

Actually, that just seems to be the basic template for everything. 'Write a stereotypical white man, then turn him into . Boom, well written '.

Oh by the nine hells of Baator, you've just pulled a Sergio Ramos.

You know, if you do that, you've done precisely what is necessary to fail. If you do that, the "exception" to the "stereotypical" cookie cutter becomes the sole defining characteristic, an as mentioned a couple of times in this thread, that's a fail.

If you take a cookie cutter blank and stick something on it, you've not created a wholesome cookie.

Interesting. I mentioned that THE defining characteristic of a gay character should be the "character-ness," not the "gay-ness." I'm not saying at all... you know what, nevermind. Make all gay characters flamboyant actors or butch lesbians. See how many people you offend. Straight people are portrayed as normal straight people as opposed to tail-chasing macho men and subserviant baby-machine women, why not do the exact same thing with the other side? Most drawn-out arguments seem to come from one side oversimplifying the other's arguments in a way that doesn't even resemble the original point. I'm simply pointing out what would work best for creating a reasonable, non-stereotypical gay character. Very few of my gay friends even "look" gay unless they happen to be around their significant other. Unless they're bi too, and we just don't do that.

 

[Vegosiux]

Interesting. I mentioned that THE defining characteristic of a gay character should be the "character-ness," not the "gay-ness."

Yes, that's exactly what I'm trying to say.

I'm not saying at all... you know what, nevermind. Make all gay characters flamboyant actors or butch lesbians

That's exactly what I'm saying you should not do. But taking your stereotypical straight white man and tweaking, how are you going to make sure the audience know he's gay now if you don't make him flamboyant enough to break through the overarching stereotype? That's what I have a problem with.

 

[keiji_Maeda]

I decided to make this topic in response to a topic that I (and a lot of you, my fellow Escapists) posted in the other day that questioned why there aren't more homosexual characters in games.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.387320-Poll-Games-arent-gay-enough?page=1

In particular, the OP brings up this point:

I mean, I'm not exactly a champion of political correctness, but that kind of horrifies me that 2012, we only have ONE well-written gay guy in the whole mainstream gaming spectrum. 0 well-written lesbians.

This brought me to the question that is in this topic's title: "Just what IS a 'well writen' gay character?"

I think it's a good and valid question. Is it not enough to simply state that Shepard's shuttle pilot is gay and have him struggling over the loss of his husband? Is HE not a "well writen" gay character? Just what exactly are you looking for in a well writen gay character? Should they be flamboyant stereotypes like limp-wristed interior decorators? I'd argue that it's enough to simply have it in a character's background that they're gay - the way it is with Cortez - rather than having it be their sole defining characteristic.

Cortez, as a character, is a top-notch fighter pilot that stayed on with the Normandy and became the shuttle pilot. A vital member of the crew, he fearlessly drops Shepard's squad off in some of the hottest battlefields in the war and genuinely worries for Shepard's safety. An upstanding soldier in the Alliance, and all-around just a good man. Oh, and he's grieving over the loss of his husband.

While the grieving is a major part of his story, it has nothing to do with his homosexuality. He could just as easily have been grieving over the loss of his wife or his child or something. That his lost loved one was his homosexual partner really isn't important to his story, it's just another detail about him as a character...but not the ONLY detail about him as a character.

Soooooo yeah. What do you consider to be a "well writen gay character"?

I agree with previous posters. Consistent character framing, if each and every character is trying to bone each other, yeah, let the character who's gay be shamelessly coming on to people. But in a game like....FnV let it come up when apropos. I saw Veronica mentioned and i agree, but most of all i'd like to throw Arcade gannon into the ring. I really grew fond o' that character and when i found he was gay my impression was "ok, soooo you gonna' shoot this guy?" he was still the smart-mouthed funny science guy, and i think in so far as vidceo games can change individuals perceptions of Gay char's gannon would be a good example.

Doing it wrong? all lesbians are butch, all gay guys are fops. Luckily i can't really remember to many of these. Maybe i just brain-rinsed it out.

Captcha:Vegan zombies wants grains (hah, pretty funny)

 

[EeveeElectro]

Wasn't there two lesbians in dead Rising 2?
It's been ages since I've played but they just seemed to be of the "we're sexy lesbians, look at us gyrating up against each other" sort of fan-service.
That is a very bad gay character, IMO. Maybe it's okay for DR2 cause it's just a silly game, but if I saw that in a game that was meant to be serious, it would put me off.

Like everyone has said, make them a well written character that is gay. Don't be bringing it up every 5 minutes. I have gay friends who bring up their sexuality every 5 minutes and it irks me. In this day and age I don't think it's that much of a special subject any more.
If they're lesbians, they tend to just make it fan-service. It should just be "this is a lady who like other ladies, but we're not gonna shove it in your face by having them make out in bikinis, we're going to give them the same respect we'd give a gay male couple."

 

[Nieroshai]

Interesting. I mentioned that THE defining characteristic of a gay character should be the "character-ness," not the "gay-ness."

Yes, that's exactly what I'm trying to say.

I'm not saying at all... you know what, nevermind. Make all gay characters flamboyant actors or butch lesbians

That's exactly what I'm saying you should not do. But taking your stereotypical straight white man and tweaking, how are you going to make sure the audience know he's gay now if you don't make him flamboyant enough to break through the overarching stereotype? That's what I have a problem with.

Stereotypical straight white man... I can't recall specifying gender or race or whether the character was whitebread typical. ALL I said was to simply write a character. Incidentally, you called me out on something said sarcastically, as though I was totally serious. And once again, why should the player care about the character's sexuality? That's the problem! No one just writes a character! That character just also happens to be gay, and audiences throw a fit whenever they don't feel like they're being pandered to! Whenever that isn't done, we get flamboyant, offensive characters no one likes! Assuming gay has to be blatant is exactly like saying all straight male characters should be Duke Nukem. You can make a gay character without pandering to the stereotypical "gay activism agenda." I have never been so ashamed of anything as I am that I'm part of a demographic whose advocates make us look SO bad! No wonder people think we're all deviants, that's the only press we get.

 

[Hawkolf]

The first thing that comes to mind is Trevor from Phantasmagoria 2: Puzzle of Flesh.
Bet you didn't see that one coming, did ya!?

 

[SamuelT]

I think we should stop asking the question 'How do we write a good X character?' and just stick with 'How do we write a good character.'

 

[spartandude]

a well written gay character is a well written character who is gay
same way a well written female character is a well written character who is female

 

[Autumnflame]

Being gay , bi, straight or any variant on sexuality.

has no impact upon if a character is well written.
their sexual preference is a part of their story,not just their only story.

as stated above with steve from ME3. he had more to him than " oh im the gay character to keep the glbt" crowd happy.

he defines a character who is gay. but gay is nat all he has to offer.

 

[CMDDarkblade]

Hmm, this seems like a difficult topic to handle. Maybe in order to solve this problem of writing well-written characters who are gay, as a group, us gay people should all meet together at some type of conference or convention. There we can come up with some kind of plan or agenda if you will to decide on specific steps we can take to combat this problem.

 

[Overusedname]

I agree with the general tone here.

It's just an interesting character who happens to be gay, without putting heavy emphasis on it as a big part of his/her character.

However, addressing the bigotry that gay people are a victim of is a VERY good thing to do. Pretending that gay people are just miraculously accepted is a little odd. That doesn't reflect reality very well. I think that's why Kanji is one of very few really well-handled LGBT characters in games (or anything).

He's not a stereotype at all, but he feels like he won't be accepted if he's attracted to men and has some non-masculine interests. That's a very relatable, human approach to the issues, and they make him a well-developed, admirable but flawed character. 'Gay' is not a primary character trait for him. It's clear he likes men (and he might like girls as well), and the game's open about that. But it's just one facet of his character that he fears the rest of the world will judge him for. This makes him easily identifiable as 'the average LGBT kid'. And he has a great Social Link with the MC, showing how a straight guy and a Bi guy can easily be bros. The option to date him might have been nice, but that's a small complaint.

...God I love Persona 4. So damn well-written.

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

Soooooo yeah. What do you consider to be a "well writen gay character"?

This was posted in the other thread, but I think it should be posted here as well because it basically says all that needs to be said about this issue.......

I hate to be "this guy" but...

Sexual orientation only affects the gender/mix of genders you get sexually and romantically aroused by. The only way to include such characters in any meaningful sense would be in a game who's story revolves around romance or sexual relationships.

Most games aren't about such things. As a result, a character's sexuality is a tertiary trait. It's not really important enough to be worth exploring aside from a passing mention or an inclusion in a sub-story like what BioWare has been doing for 13 Years.

It is going to be difficult to represent a psychological trait that affects something so separated from what many games are about (conflict, battle, hero's journey, ect).

There are no personality traits associated with gay people. We've only fooled ourselves into thinking there are. Personality and Sexuality operate independently of eachother and have a hard time meshing in a character as far as solid character design goes.

Because if you try really hard to do it, your character ends up being a pandering, token stereotype.

Spoiler: Pictured: The worst written gay character in history

Homosexuality doesn't define a character. If you describe your character with "She's gay" then congratulations: You've told your audience nothing about your character. We have to get off this mindset that homosexuality is some massive difference in human beings. I can understand why we have this mindset. Western Culture is largely defined by the United States. And the United States has quite a lot of dumbfucks misguided people who think that gay people are some kind of alien species.

They're not. They differ from straight people in the most minute way possible.

BioWare's handling of gay characters is about as close as you're going to get to an inclusive and non-stereotypical representation of homosexuality. It's there. That's it. It isn't used to define a character. It isn't shoehorned in as part of the main plot. And it pretty much stays in the only area it can fit: Romance Options.

And to answer the question, no intimidate character comes to mind for me because I don't focus on gay characters in games.