Define RPG

[Merkavar]

So how do you define RPG?

The reason im asking is i keep seeing mass effect and fallout being called rpgs but to me they just dont seem to be an RPG. Mass effect to me is a FPS and same goes for fallout(or third person shooter)

To me an RPG is a game like the witcher, rift or obilvion where you have leveling and skills as a key/main component. Also for me rpgs all seem to be set in medieval times like with swords, castles and magic. And upgrading armour and weapons are important.

If its in the future your liekly to be fighting with or against guns and then it sort of changes into a fps instead of an rpg.

Am i being to set in my ways thinking rpg = knights and quests?

So where to you disagree with my definition and what is your own definition of RPG

 

[chronicfc]

For me its a game where you are immersed in the story, or make the story, and you are never nailed down to go somewhere. Games like Fallout 3 or Oblivion let me make my character who I want them to be, the reluctant hero, the damage dealing tank. I like ME and DA:O as they let me define my character, as well.

 

[AlternatePFG]

Fallout has skills and leveling as a main component. Especially the first two. There are so many choices in those games, and different ways of playing it, it's just absurd. (In a good way) Just because it has guns doesn't make it any less of an RPG. Mass Effect has always been a 3rd person shooter with RPG elements in my opinion, nothing wrong with that.

It doesn't have be a fantasy game for it to be an RPG. RPG's are really just about choice and multiple ways of solving problems. 99% usually have some sort of character building/stats, that's what I would call RPG elements but they aren't necessarily vital for a game to be an RPG. (Though if done properly, improve a game)

 

[WanderingFool]

So how do you define RPG?

The reason im asking is i keep seeing mass effect and fallout being called rpgs but to me they just dont seem to be an RPG. Mass effect to me is a FPS and same goes for fallout(or third person shooter)

To me an RPG is a game like the witcher, rift or obilvion where you have leveling and skills as a key/main component. Also for me rpgs all seem to be set in medieval times like with swords, castles and magic. And upgrading armour and weapons are important.

If its in the future your liekly to be fighting with or against guns and then it sort of changes into a fps instead of an rpg.

Am i being to set in my ways thinking rpg = knights and quests?

So where to you disagree with my definition and what is your own definition of RPG

I think confining RPG to only medival fantasy settings is doing the genre name injustice.

I think an RPG is one which has giuves you the ability to play a role how you decide, and not follow a set guideline. Fallout 3 (the first ones are radically different) and Mass Effect are not the same level of RPG like other games you mentioned, but they are RPGs. Though, I think, personally, the only true RPGs are the D&D tabletop games.

 

[Knight Captain Kerr]

Games that allow for customisation of character in both apperance and skills with a large number of optional quests, has a Wide Open Sandbox game experience, a Dungeon Crawler, or a plot-based game focused on the Character Development of both the customized PC and the NPCs. I disagree with the Ops defination of Rpgs anyway.

 

[TheIronRuler]

For that you need to see the definition of "Role Playing".
You can look at it in different ways.
One way to look at it is that a game which focuses on the main character and his decisions in the process of the game is a role-playing game, but if you go that road you'd need to acknowlegde all of the other games in existance, because even if the plot is on rails, from blowing up a nuclear missle in Call of Duty Black Ops or gowing through tubes to reach the end goal in Mario - you are still making decisions and affecting the plot.
Another way to look at it is to say that a game which allows the player to be someone else, inplement themselves in a different world or experience as a different character qualifies a game for being a RPG. There are games with plot, and there are games that involve the player with the plot, some even too much like the open ended worlds of Oblivion where the gates are just waiting for you alone to close them, Or the world of the capitol wasteland that will become much worse or much better due to your actions. Because nobody takes the neutral path.
Then games that require input from the player, more than "shoot that" may qualify as RPG games.
Then there is the last way to look at it. RPG games are here for you to escape to a different world, scenario and experience it there as you would like it. You are somebody else, because you are "Role-Playing". Which means that even pixel arcade games where you play as a spaceship shooting aliens can be called a RPG .
My opinion? If your choices are deep, meaningful beyond the Evil or Good Karma or Accepted or Vilified in a group and they make an impact on the world - that's a RPG.
That's also why you should buy The Witcher 2 for your PC if you hadn't already.
Great RPG game.

 

[Fetzenfisch]

A rocket-propelled grenade (RPG) is a shoulder-fired, anti-tank weapon system which fires rockets equipped with an explosive warhead. These warheads are affixed to a rocket motor and stabilized in flight with fins. Some types of RPG are reloadable while others are single-use. RPGs, with the exception of self-contained versions, are loaded from the muzzle.RPGs are very effective against armored vehicles such as armored personnel carriers (APCs).

 

[VladG]

RolePlaingGame. So any game that lets you choose how to play and define your character has at least some RPG elements in it. Weapons upgrades, skill trees, classes, armors, are all staple elements of the genre, but all CHOICE is the defining element. That's how you roleplay. By choosing what/who you want to be in the game.

Mass Effect is no less an RPG for being 3rd person oriented. It has all the elements needed, especially choice. It's a story driven game, and that's where the choice is most evident, not in the skill/customization/armoury department.

Fallout 3 is a classic RPG example, despite it's futuristic setting. You have various skills, weapons, armours, quests, etc. Only difference is you don't shoot arrows you shoot bullets, and you don't have a magical flaming sword, you have a propane-fuelled flaming sword. Also it is EXACTLY like Oblivion in almost every way, save the setting and game universe.

Also you should play Fallout 1 and 2. They are one of the games that defined the videogame RPG genre. Not calling them RPGs is like not calling Westerns movies.(and I'd like to see you call those FPS', despite you using mostly guns)

Also let me quote Clarke: "Any sufficiently advanced technology is always going to look like magic". Oblivion isn't Medieval. It's the most futuristic game out there. But you still call that an RPG, don't you? Also I've never played Oblivion other than in first person mode. Guess I wasn't playing the same game as you in 3rd person then, because by the OP, it wasn't an rpg anymore.

 

[Mr. Omega]

An RPG is a Game where you Play the Role of a character. There are just different design methods in how you can play the role, and some people like one method more than the others, declaring it the "REAL RPG", and declaring all other forms lesser. What I'm about to do is really just me trying to put two examples, and there are plenty of exceptions to both, and more ways than these two.

In many WRPGs, you can make your character from scratch, everything from their appearance to their attributes is yours to decide, with little to pretty much no backstory about them. They are a blank slate that you fill in. What happened before isn't important. All that matters is what happens now.

In many JRPGs, your character has been mostly made for you. They have an appearance and a long, detailed backstory. What you decide is how they will grow in terms of skills, strength and in some cases relationships with the other characters. They are a pre-made character, but you can decide what's next for them.

There are lots of games with RPG elements in them. Stat-building, moral choices, gaining experience, so on and so forth. The fact that there are so many RPG elements in so many games today almost makes RPG a pointless genre title. And the fact that lines have been so blurred makes the fans bicker and argue about what a "real" RPG is, often mocking anyone who enjoys a game with a different style than their own.

This is the reason that I can't stand RPG fans: there is no real set-in-stone guide how to make an RPG, the fact that RPGs is such a flexible genre yet the fanbases of many games refuse to acknowledge that there is a different way to make an RPG ("Witcher 2 is a PURE RPG, unliked that watered-down crap like Mass Effect of Final Fantasy!" "Fallout 3 is a REAL RPG! It actually gives you choice in what to do!" "Mass Effect is the greatest RPG ever! You are totally immersed unlike in all those other games!"), the constant arguing, and the fact that the RPG fanbase are the ones who constantly cry out "DUMBING DOWN!" when there is any sort of change to a franchise. A bunch of whiny, entitled, bickering group of fanboys who think their choice RPGs is the best way and anyone who doesn't agree with them is an idiot.

 

[DEAD34345]

A role playing game to me is a game that makes the player role play (or at least it is the game's intention for the player to roleplay). To me Mass Effect 1 and 2 are RPGs, but Borderlands is not. The Elder Scrolls games are RPGs but the Final Fantasy games are not.

When I play Halo I don't have to think for Master Chief, his personality is already there and what I'm setting out to do is already decided. I just kill aliens (or marines, if I'm bored). When I play Mass Effect I think about how my character would react to a situation, and make choices based on that. The stats, setting and combat-style don't come into it at all for me.

 

[Spencer Petersen]

An RPG is a game that can be played by 2 different people and convey a uniquely different experience for both.

Things like leveling systems and moral choices have become synonymous with RPG because they both provide methods to create different experiences. Leveling usually comes with a screen for picking new talents/stats/skills to create alternate builds for making different character from the same framework and create different manners for allowing the player to tackle content. Moral choices let you define your character uniquely and impact the world around you in a different manner to craft a unique experience.

This is kind of why I don't consider the Mass Effect series to be an RPG in the basic sense, as you can play as good or bad, but the good and bad paths are cemented in their ways along a railroad dialogue system. Even then, the renegade and paragon options usually yield the same result whether it be character loyalty or increased reward, the only difference is tiny details like tone. If your the bad guy you click every red dialogue option, ditto for paragon with blue. Every character arc you impact has a set path based on your affiliation, and you are hampered even more by the requirement of arbitrary paragon/renegade scores to act in a certain manner. Its the same reason I wouldn't consider a choose your own adventure book among the same levels of role-playing as a tabletop game.

And the combat plays out the same in the grand sense, people come out, you kill them, rinse, repeat. No matter which class/build/morality/gender/appearance combination you take, you leave every room the same, by having killed all the enemies in it. There's no tie-in from the dialogue to the combat and vice versa, no stealth/non-violent option, no methods to avoid combat by specializing in alternate skills, no skills for maneuvering terrain to flank. If there's a dude, you kill him, no choice, no input.

 

[Smooth Operator]

RPG -> Game with meaningful choice (those three letters are only the name of the genre nothing more)
More choice you can give the player the more your game is an RPG (story, characters, conversation, items, skills, race, alignment, combat,...)

Many borrow only a fraction of the genre to spice up their game, alot of times choice is taken away so the casual player can breeze through with little effort, Mass Effect is a good example of this.

 

[OpticalJunction]

It's a bit like acting. You're taking on the role of a character in a story, their motivations become your motivations, their skills, your skills, and so on. Ideally this character should be as complex and unique as a person in real life, they should be able to make real choices that affect the direction of the game, and those choices should make sense from their perspective and be consistent with the lore of the world around them. In an RPG, as opposed to other games, the story and the characters are everything; the gameplay and visuals take a back seat.

 

[vivalahelvig]

Rocket Propelled Grenade.

Oh, the other kind of rpg...
erm...I dont really know how to define one, so im going to say that Morrowind is a perfect example of a good rpg and leave it at that before the other rpg fans cut me to ribbons.

...even though I have the RPG launcher...

 

[VladG]

This is the reason that I can't stand RPG fans: there is no real set-in-stone guide how to make an RPG, the fact that RPGs is such a flexible genre yet the fanbases of many games refuse to acknowledge that there is a different way to make an RPG ("Witcher 2 is a PURE RPG, unliked that watered-down crap like Mass Effect of Final Fantasy!" "Fallout 3 is a REAL RPG! It actually gives you choice in what to do!" "Mass Effect is the greatest RPG ever! You are totally immersed unlike in all those other games!"), the constant arguing, and the fact that the RPG fanbase are the ones who constantly cry out "DUMBING DOWN!" when there is any sort of change to a franchise. A bunch of whiny, entitled, bickering group of fanboys who think their choice RPGs is the best way and anyone who doesn't agree with them is an idiot.

Think you might be projecting a bit there friend. I know many hardcore RPG fans (being one myself) and not one of them "refuse to acknowledge that there is a different way to make an RPG". In fact all are very open to everything out there that provides choice and character development. A real fan embraces all kinds of RPGs exactly because the genre is so wide.

Also I'd like to point out that RPG staples like stats, experience and such do not, in fact, an RPG make. An RPG is all about choice, and those are just easy means to such an end.

In fact here's a quote from the wiki: "Players take responsibility for acting out these roles within a narrative, either through literal acting, or through a process of structured decision-making or character development." Since there is no need for acting in a video game (that's what the game is there to do) all we are left with is the process of structured decision-making or character development. And that very neatly encapsulates what an RPG is. Choice and growth.

 

[Richardplex]

A game where you role-play.

It's a bit like acting. You're taking on the role of a character in a story, their motivations become your motivations, their skills, your skills, and so on. Ideally this character should be as complex and unique as a person in real life, they should be able to make real choices that affect the direction of the game, and those choices should make sense from their perspective and be consistent with the lore of the world around them. In an RPG, as opposed to other games, the story and the characters are everything; the gameplay and visuals take a back seat.

so, this, basically. What you choose to do in mass effect has a visible impact,

Spoiler

from whether every alien species hates you for killing the council to whether you have an additional 11.4 million geth on your side.

And who Shepard is is your choice, not the games. You RP as her/him, you choose their story. True, the game gives you the options, but they are just points on Shepard's timeline; what happens between them, and how you act, is your choice. Same goes to fallout and oblivion, just because your replacing swords with guns doesn't remove the Roleplaying or the Game aspect.

As to the commonly associated aspects of RPGs, the equipment management and leveling and what not, they don't define the RPG, they just happen to appear a lot in RPGs. The Role you are Playing doesn't depend on the mechanics physically and arbitrarily showing you how you advance throughout the game, the player can decide that, or it could happen in spite of the player. These mechanics just happen to be a pretty awesome way of doing that, and is a way how mechanics and story can sync with each other, but there are other ways.

And, because I know, and everyone knows this will be brought up, I don't think JRPGs, for the most part, are true RPGs. Sure you can choose what exact thing to say in some, but the experience won't change, the relationship between characters for the most part remains unaffected, and what you choose to do, as opposed to what you must do, won't make any real difference. And there are probably some that do allow this, and I would call them RPGs, I don't feel all Japanese RPGs aren't RPGs, just most of those that fall under the term aren't RPGs.

Wow, that was a lot of waffle. And probably a lot of BS too, but I'm cool with that.

 

[Ranorak]

Here we go again:

while some current games cross genre some of these attributes might become lost.

But the basics of a RPG is that, unlike most other genre's, your skills don't matter, the main character's skill do.

Lets take a example.
In Fallout 3, you still suck at shooting as a level 1, no matter how much YOU played Battlefield Bad Company 2, because you're character sucks at it.

No matter how great you are with a bow and arrow, if your character doesn't have the skills he sucks at it.

While more action orientated games let you block or dodge actively, at the core, most RPG's rely on the characters skills, and you as a player, have to make the choice which skills do I get better at, and which ones do I leave in the dust.

Do I pick the Fire Talent Tree in WoW, and become a pure glass canon, or do I want to sacrifice a little damage output and increase my survivability with Frost.

Do I put that last point in Strength to carry more Nuka Cola, or do I put it in Intelligence to I get a better Medicine skill.

So, I define a RPG by character skills instead of player skills, choices (in weakness/strength not story per-see) and numbers.

 

[Woodsey]

Fallout 3 is definitely an RPG (the same goes for Deus Ex - how anyone can define a game where you never even have to shoot as primarily an FPS is beyond me), Mass Effect 2 is Guns 'n' Conversation, a sub-genre of RPG, making it an RPG.

 

[Merkavar]

i think i like the meaningful choices definition of rpg.