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[Casual Shinji]

Oh, those are fun too.

I've been playing Ace Combat 7 and there's a brief line where your mission control mentions eating Italian food. Which is kinda wierd when Italy doesn't actually exist in the game world.

This begs the question though; Do you want these fictional sociaties to use our lingo eventhough it makes no sense, or do you want them to use appropriated lingo like 'wild bantha chase' as opposed to 'wild goose chase', so that it actually fits the setting? The latter always makes me cringe a little.

 

[Specter Von Baren]

SNIP

Well Lil, you're just being a gatekeeping homophobic. Homosexuals are a minority and need representation wherever they can get it. Seeing Xena be a lesbian, especially in the time period this show came out in, inspired many young homosexual girls to be confident about themselves, how dare you try to deny them that feeling, Xena doesn't belong to you.

 

[Dalisclock]

This begs the question though; Do you want these fictional sociaties to use our lingo eventhough it makes no sense, or do you want them to use appropriated lingo like 'wild bantha chase' as opposed to 'wild goose chase', so that it actually fits the setting? The latter always makes me cringe a little.

Honestly, it really depends. I'm fine with them using certain words and phrases that get the meaning across, it's when you use really specfic phrases/words that it gets really awkward.

I remember in the show Carnival Row that takes place on an alternate earth, in a city that's "not London" and the Land of fairy is a place you can reach by ship and is currently being fought over by Not-Britain and Not-Russia for colonial control. Which is fine....until at one point they used the word "Pharoah" in conversation...and that broke the disbelief a little bit there, considering how specific a culture that term refers to and how much it tries to be "Britian but not-Britian". King/Emporer/Prime Minister are all kinda general terms considering the setting but Pharoah refers to literally one specific earth culture and that begs all sorts of questions there about their world. If faries exist in that world and Egypt also exists in that world, does that mean Egyption gods are real?

Granted, I wasn't really feeling the show at that point, so that probably had a lot to do with it. I don't have a huge urge to watch season 2 when it comes out unless it notaly improves.

 

[CaitSeith]

It's fiction. In fiction, black people is as oppressed as the author decides. But the trope of the white character explaining to a black person how and why to fight oppression can break the suspension of disbelief, because that happens in reality all the time.

Also, don't forget the article is more about John Boyega than Star Wars itself.

 

[Worgen]

It's actually the first article the author's written. On the other hand, this is Polygon, which found a way to criticize CoD: WWII for not having transgender characters in it.

In fairness, other game sites are doing similar things, and fair enough, but I think the article's thesis is really stretching things.

Can you link that? It sounds like bs. I mean there are so many more things to criticize CoD ww2 for, like its story was just utter shit and felt like a really badly hand jobby kinda thing.

 

[Agema]

African British actor...

Just as a note, we in Britain don't tend to use the same conventions of terminology Americans do. "Black British" is the normal description.

Part of the issue is that for historical reasons and cultural differences, Britain tends to distinguish black people whose origins are direct from Africa (African British) from those whose origins are via the Caribbean (African Caribbean / Afro-Caribbean British).

 

[happyninja42]

Star Wars HAS addressed racial inequality, at least more recently. Or at least made an attempt to address it by providing a species that embodies a lot of the issues that minorities have endured, they are called droids.

They are literally second class beings, owned as property, sold between Masters, and forced to do the various menial, and dangerous jobs that the organic beings won't. In Solo, they are shown to even be forced to engage in gladiatorial combat, to the destruction, for the amusement of the organics.

They are coded as being "alive" by the way they are portrayed in the films, as they are clearly shown to have personal agency, outside of direct interaction with an organic, they behave in ways that are designed to instantly convey emotion to the audience, and also their owners. Even the ones that don't actually speak, but just make chirps and bleeps, clearly have an easily recognized human tonal range to their sounds "happy beeps buddy, happy beeps" for example.

Everything about them, conveys the idea to the audience, that they are alive, but they are not treated as equal to the organics. The slave comparison for droids is painfully apparent in the films. But it's only been addressed recently, Solo being the most direct about it, actually having a subplot related to droid rights, and a character directly acting in regards to it. I'm pretty sure that the Rebels cartoon addressed some racial issues as well, but I didn't watch all of that show, so I might be misremembering. But most people, when talking about SW, are specifically only talking about the movies.

So yes, they HAVE addressed it. Trying to do it with the various races just doesn't make sense, given the context of Star Wars. There isn't any black oppression in the films as a plot element, as a large majority of the characters presented in SW aren't even human at all. I personally do think that the droid situation in SW is a very fascinating one, and a ripe opportunity for storytelling, as they have set a great stage for doing what scifi often does. Providing commentary about social issues, but using an "alien" filter in regards to the groups in question, to provide at least one layer of separation from the issues being too raw for some audiences.

 

[Dalisclock]

Star Wars HAS addressed racial inequality, at least more recently. Or at least made an attempt to address it by providing a species that embodies a lot of the issues that minorities have endured, they are called droids.

They are literally second class beings, owned as property, sold between Masters, and forced to do the various menial, and dangerous jobs that the organic beings won't. In Solo, they are shown to even be forced to engage in gladiatorial combat, to the destruction, for the amusement of the organics.

They are coded as being "alive" by the way they are portrayed in the films, as they are clearly shown to have personal agency, outside of direct interaction with an organic, they behave in ways that are designed to instantly convey emotion to the audience, and also their owners. Even the ones that don't actually speak, but just make chirps and bleeps, clearly have an easily recognized human tonal range to their sounds "happy beeps buddy, happy beeps" for example.

Everything about them, conveys the idea to the audience, that they are alive, but they are not treated as equal to the organics. The slave comparison for droids is painfully apparent in the films. But it's only been addressed recently, Solo being the most direct about it, actually having a subplot related to droid rights, and a character directly acting in regards to it. I'm pretty sure that the Rebels cartoon addressed some racial issues as well, but I didn't watch all of that show, so I might be misremembering. But most people, when talking about SW, are specifically only talking about the movies.

So yes, they HAVE addressed it. Trying to do it with the various races just doesn't make sense, given the context of Star Wars. There isn't any black oppression in the films as a plot element, as a large majority of the characters presented in SW aren't even human at all. I personally do think that the droid situation in SW is a very fascinating one, and a ripe opportunity for storytelling, as they have set a great stage for doing what scifi often does. Providing commentary about social issues, but using an "alien" filter in regards to the groups in question, to provide at least one layer of separation from the issues being too raw for some audiences.

What about the clones from Clone Wars? They exists for the sole purposes of being soldiers and it's heavily implied, if not outright stated, they're not allowed to just quit the army. They're also bred/conditioned to be obientant and while I can't remember if it's ever stated, it's implied one of the reasons the clones are used exclusively instead of conscritption or recruitment is because clones don't have families and nobody cares if they die in battles(other then their comrades and superiors). It makes the war very academic to those on worlds the war doesn't touch, rather then "My child died for Palpatines War!" resentment and war fatigue that would eventually build up.

This all points to the idea of the clones essentially being a slave army, which I know the series touched on at least a couple times, even if the term "slave" was never used.

 

[happyninja42]

What about the clones from Clone Wars? They exists for the sole purposes of being soldiers and it's heavily implied, if not outright stated, they're not allowed to just quit the army. They're also bred/conditioned to be obientant and while I can't remember if it's ever stated, it's implied one of the reasons the clones are used exclusively instead of conscritption or recruitment is because clones don't have families and nobody cares if they die in battles(other then their comrades and superiors). It makes the war very academic to those on worlds the war doesn't touch, rather then "My child died for Palpatines War!" resentment and war fatigue that would eventually build up.

This all points to the idea of the clones essentially being a slave army, which I know the series touched on at least a couple times, even if the term "slave" was never used.

Ah yeah, to be honest I forgot about that show, as I got tired of it early on and stopped watching it. But yes, it's very much a similar plot thread, that can easily be used to tell the kind of stories the above mentioned article thinks Star Wars doesn't address. I don't recall if they did many episodes directly addressing that? Like I said, stopped watching early on. But yes, that is totally another way.

 

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[happyninja42]

There are many legitimate reasons to pick on TLJ, but Finn's arc is definitely one of them (even if it happens in some of the clunkiest, most plodding scenes).

Don't you mean "definitely NOT one of them" ?

 

[SilentPony]

Just as a note, we in Britain don't tend to use the same conventions of terminology Americans do. "Black British" is the normal description.

Part of the issue is that for historical reasons and cultural differences, Britain tends to distinguish black people whose origins are direct from Africa (African British) from those whose origins are via the Caribbean (African Caribbean / Afro-Caribbean British).

Okay cool, good to know I will amend my lexicon going forward. Any other traditional American terminology that when applied to the British would be changed that's worthy noting?

 

[Specter Von Baren]

Okay cool, good to know I will amend my lexicon going forward. Any other traditional American terminology that when applied to the British would be changed that's worthy noting?

Don't call them pants, pants are underpants in Britain. They call them trousers there. They're also barbaric savages that call aluminum, aluminium.

 

[happyninja42]

Don't call them pants, pants are underpants in Britain. They call them trousers there. They're also barbaric savages that call aluminum, aluminium.

How can you have UNDERpants, if you don't have pants for them to be an under variant of? That's just crazy! Chaos!!

 

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[Kwak]

There. Now feel free to rip into me and call me a crypto-fascist and privilege-blinded cracker.

Okay. You're a crypto-fascist privilege-blinded cracker.
Do you have some kind of persecution fetish or something?

 

[Agema]

I remember in the show Carnival Row that takes place on an alternate earth, in a city that's "not London" and the Land of fairy is a place you can reach by ship and is currently being fought over by Not-Britain and Not-Russia for colonial control. Which is fine....until at one point they used the word "Pharoah" in conversation...and that broke the disbelief a little bit there, considering how specific a culture that term refers to and how much it tries to be "Britian but not-Britian". King/Emporer/Prime Minister are all kinda general terms considering the setting but Pharoah refers to literally one specific earth culture and that begs all sorts of questions there about their world. If faries exist in that world and Egypt also exists in that world, does that mean Egyption gods are real?

I don't think that really holds: fantasy is absolutely full of borrowed Earth titles. For instance, I know the Pope technically claims the title "Pontifex", but pontifex is basically specifically Latin and crops up enough as a priest title. "Archon" is specifically Greek, but you'll find plenty of archons in fantasy. "Tsar" is just a Slavic version of emperor, "khan" could readily be translated into English equivalents ("chief", "warlord", etc.). "Sultan" has religious as well as temporal connotations, but so did most ancient and medieval emperors claim spiritual or ecclesiastical power, so why not strike sultan from the fantasy record for emperor? Why call a warlike northener-type "jarl", when that already exists in English as "earl"?

The point of using these titles is that they provide easily recognisable flavour to a fantasy civilisation. Yes it's a bit cheaty, if you like, but it serves a simple and effective purpose. They can't just chuck in a neologism, because no-one will know what the hell an "Uj-mascator" or "Rymhalkot" is without a load of lengthy exposition. And if they call everyone "king" or "emperor" then everything looks painfully bland and uniform.

 

[happyninja42]

Okay. You're a crypto-fascist privilege-blinded cracker.
Do you have some kind of persecution fetish or something?

MMMMM!!! Thank you daddy!!! May I please have another cruel insult?! I've been VERY crackery today!!

 

[crimson5pheonix]

This has been the bread and butter article for Polygon and it's ilk for years. They've never really been ones for context, critical thinking, or intelligent writing. All pop culture can (and in fact has to) boil down to some single contemporary American social issue.

 

[SilentPony]

MMMMM!!! Thank you daddy!!! May I please have another cruel insult?! I've been VERY crackery today!!

Being white myself I'll try me best. Ahem.
Hey...Hey cracker! Go...go have another tuna fish sandwich with too much mayo and listen to your Third Eye Blind cds, because being white you haven't adapted to getting music on the internet and you still think mayo is good.