Demos and Piracy

[Li Mu]

Remember the old days?
You know, the days when games were games and had these strange little pre-released playable sections of the game. We used to call them demos.

I remember when I was faced with the situation where I had enough money to buy one game and one game only. How could I decide which game to spend my hard earned birthday money on?
Well this is where the demos would come in. I would play the demos and get a feeling for the game and eventually chose the one I wanted to play.

Now lets skip forward to present day where demos are all but extinct and game designers now think that they are making movies. Now we have Game Trailers.
Dead Island was an excellent example of a trailer which didn't actually feature any gameplay whatsoever. Infact it's now pretty much standard to have game trailers which feature little or no actual gameplay and consist entirely of prerendered movies.

I saw one of these trailers last night whilst in the cinema. After watching the trailer I couldn't tell you a single thing about the game. Was it a platformer? FPS? It kind of looked like a Devil May Cry cutscene, so perhaps the gameplay is similar to that, but I have absolutely no idea.

It seems that game companies are terrified of actually letting us know what it is we're playing until we've shelled out our money on their game. It's akin to making you buy a car without ever allowing you a test drive.
Who in their right mind would buy a car without first testing it?
So surely it is reasonable to allow us gamers to test a game before we buy it.

It's my personal opinion that this shift in marketing has contributed to the rise in piracy.
If you have limited funds and want to test a game before you buy, usually your only option is to download the entire game in pirate form simply because game companies refuse to give us a demo.


I did a quick search for Battlefield and COD demos and the latest I could find were COD2 and BF2. (COD2 and BF2 were both released in 2005) No demos have been released for any later games (that I could find)
Fallout 3 released a Demo Video, which is essentially a trailer.

Now that's not to say that demos have completely vanished. Dawn of War 2 did release a demo back in 2009.

Infact, how about I go through Yatzees recent reviews and attempt to find a playable trailer...

Assassin's Creed- (No playable demo)
Serious Sam 3- (No playable demo)
Space Marine- (No playable demo)
Skyrim- (No playable demo)
Batman Arkham Asylem- (No playable demo)
Rage- (No playable demo)

It really does seem as though demos ultimately died out 4 or 5 years ago and were replaced by prerendered movies which show nothing of the actual game.

What are your opinions on this subject? Do you think that by denying us a chance to play the game before we buy the developers have inadvertantly increased people's urge to pirate?
Why do you think devs have stopped releasing demos?

 

[Riki Darnell]

Remember the old days?
You know, the days when games were games and had these strange little pre-released playable sections of the game. We used to call them demos.

I remember when I was faced with the situation where I had enough money to buy one game and one game only. How could I decide which game to spend my hard earned birthday money on?
Well this is where the demos would come in. I would play the demos and get a feeling for the game and eventually chose the one I wanted to play.

Now lets skip forward to present day where demos are all but extinct and game designers now think that they are making movies. Now we have Game Trailers.
Dead Island was an excellent example of a trailer which didn't actually feature any gameplay whatsoever. Infact it's now pretty much standard to have game trailers which feature little or no actual gameplay and consist entirely of prerendered movies.

I saw one of these trailers last night whilst in the cinema. After watching the trailer I couldn't tell you a single thing about the game. Was it a platformer? FPS? It kind of looked like a Devil May Cry cutscene, so perhaps the gameplay is similar to that, but I have absolutely no idea.

It seems that game companies are terrified of actually letting us know what it is we're playing until we've shelled out our money on their game. It's akin to making you buy a car without ever allowing you a test drive.
Who in their right mind would buy a car without first testing it?
So surely it is reasonable to allow us gamers to test a game before we buy it.

It's my personal opinion that this shift in marketing has contributed to the rise in piracy.
If you have limited funds and want to test a game before you buy, usually your only option is to download the entire game in pirate form simply because game companies refuse to give us a demo.


I did a quick search for Battlefield and COD demos and the latest I could find were COD2 and BF2. (COD2 and BF2 were both released in 2005) No demos have been released for any later games (that I could find)
Fallout 3 released a Demo Video, which is essentially a trailer.

Now that's not to say that demos have completely vanished. Dawn of War 2 did release a demo back in 2009.

Infact, how about I go through Yatzees recent reviews and attempt to find a playable trailer...

Assassin's Creed- (No playable demo)
Serious Sam 3- (No playable demo)
Space Marine- (No playable demo)
Skyrim- (No playable demo)
Batman Arkham Asylem- (No playable demo)
Rage- (No playable demo)

It really does seem as though demos ultimately died out 4 or 5 years ago and were replaced by prerendered movies which show nothing of the actual game.

What are your opinions on this subject? Do you think that by denying us a chance to play the game before we buy the developers have inadvertantly increased people's urge to pirate?
Why do you think devs have stopped releasing demos?

I don't know where you are looking for your demos but obviously in the wrong place. There was a Battlefield 3 Beta just a few months ago. Also, with all the people who critique games now you should be able to find a video of them playing the game and talking about it, so that way you can know what type of genera it is. Rage also has a playable demo, so I'm not sure where you got that. Lastly, I think some games would be hard to have a demo for, like Skyrim.

 

[Li Mu]

Obviously I am checking the wrong places. Neither File Planet nor Steam have demos of any of these games. I was obviously wrong to assume that these were the best places to go for demos.

 

[Weaver]

Space Marine had a playable demo, it was actually a really good demo.

 

[Epona]

Obviously I am checking the wrong places. Neither File Planet nor Steam have demos of any of these games. I was obviously wrong to assume that these were the best places to go for demos.

I have found demos of games that Steam doesn't have. Just Google the game name + Demo and see what pops up. I have found that Steam is missing alot of Demos that do exist elsewhere. For example, Lego Harry Potter 5-7.

However, you are correct that demos are being replaced by trailers or nothing at all.

Just wanna throw this out there for those who think that BETAS are the same as DEMOS, if you have to pre-order the game to play the BETA, that defeats the purpose of a DEMO.

 

[Epona]

oh look..this thread again.

I said it before and I'll say it again.

People who pirate are too lazy to get a job and buy a game. You don't need a demo to get a feel for the game. A trailer is basically, and infact, is a commercial for the game. Why should they waste their time to create a demo? Waste of time.

No one is forcing you to buy the game right away. No one is forcing you to even think of the game.

It's the consumer's choice to hype a game and want it asap, but the laziness to apply their skills to earn money to buy a game, is low.

Can't buy it? Wait a few months.

Can't wait a few months? Rent it.

Can't rent it? Well you're shit outta luck.

Video games are luxuries that not everyone can have, and people take that concept to steal anothers work without paying for it.

Also, a demo would be a short bit of the game to give you a feel. Piracy is the whole game. "If I like it, I'll buy it." That is complete horse shit. You have the full game right there, you really think anyone believes that you'll go out and buy it, when you have the full game there? No.

I earned enough from my job to buy the games I recently purchased, and I must say, it was worth the work for them.

I honestly think there really should be harder enforcement on piracy and hunt down people who do it.

It's the developers choice if they want to put out a demo too, and then they gotta get permission to release it on the system. Wasted time in my opinion.

TL;DR
Pirates are lazy and cheap and want things for free without lifting a finger.

Can a trailer tell me how well a game runs on my PC? Aren't the specs usually flat out wrong? Would you even know the answers to these questions because your console games do not have specs?

 

[Slanzinger]

Obviously I am checking the wrong places. Neither File Planet nor Steam have demos of any of these games. I was obviously wrong to assume that these were the best places to go for demos.

I think the ones he's referencing are just on consoles. Space Marine, Rage & Arkham Asylum all have demos on the XBLM.

Though I do agree that the PC demo is practically dead (bloody annoying too as for me a PC demo isn't just to get a feel for the game, it's also to work out whether the damned thing will run smoothly on my rig)

oh look..this thread again.

I said it before and I'll say it again.
[snip]

Nothing even attempting to justify piracy here. Just a shame that there is a relative lack of demos these days, is all. I want something more than a bit of CGI to work out whether something's going to be any good (case in point: I was really excited for Asura's Wrath as I thought it was going to have a really interesting combat system from the trailer videos last year... Until I played the XB demo recently and found that said videos are the entire game. But demos go positively as well, there are a few times where I've tried something which I hadn't heard of before and had my interest piqued. Certainly not a waste of time; a playable snippet is far better than a video for the sake of advertising (unless of course there's something to hide regarding gameplay quality)

(also who do they have to get "permission" from to release a PC demo? Nobody, that's who...)

 

[Weaver]

Obviously I am checking the wrong places. Neither File Planet nor Steam have demos of any of these games. I was obviously wrong to assume that these were the best places to go for demos.

I think the ones he's referencing are just on consoles. Space Marine, Rage & Arkham Asylum all have demos on the XBLM.

Though I do agree that the PC demo is practically dead (bloody annoying too as for me a PC demo isn't just to get a feel for the game, it's also to work out whether the damned thing will run smoothly on my rig)

oh look..this thread again.

I said it before and I'll say it again.
[snip]

Nothing even attempting to justify piracy here. Just a shame that there is a relative lack of demos these days, is all. I want something more than a bit of CGI to work out whether something's going to be any good (case in point: I was really excited for Asura's Wrath as I thought it was going to have a really interesting combat system from the trailer videos last year... Until I played the XB demo recently and found that said videos are the entire game. But demos go positively as well, there are a few times where I've tried something which I hadn't heard of before and had my interest piqued. Certainly not a waste of time; a playable snippet is far better than a video for the sake of advertising (unless of course there's something to hide regarding gameplay quality)

(also who do they have to get "permission" from to release a PC demo? Nobody, that's who...)

Space Marine has a PC demo. It's right on the steam page.
http://store.steampowered.com/app/55150/

It's the button that says "download demo".

 

[Epona]

oh look..this thread again.

I said it before and I'll say it again.

People who pirate are too lazy to get a job and buy a game. You don't need a demo to get a feel for the game. A trailer is basically, and infact, is a commercial for the game. Why should they waste their time to create a demo? Waste of time.

No one is forcing you to buy the game right away. No one is forcing you to even think of the game.

It's the consumer's choice to hype a game and want it asap, but the laziness to apply their skills to earn money to buy a game, is low.

Can't buy it? Wait a few months.

Can't wait a few months? Rent it.

Can't rent it? Well you're shit outta luck.

Video games are luxuries that not everyone can have, and people take that concept to steal anothers work without paying for it.

Also, a demo would be a short bit of the game to give you a feel. Piracy is the whole game. "If I like it, I'll buy it." That is complete horse shit. You have the full game right there, you really think anyone believes that you'll go out and buy it, when you have the full game there? No.

I earned enough from my job to buy the games I recently purchased, and I must say, it was worth the work for them.

I honestly think there really should be harder enforcement on piracy and hunt down people who do it.

It's the developers choice if they want to put out a demo too, and then they gotta get permission to release it on the system. Wasted time in my opinion.

TL;DR
Pirates are lazy and cheap and want things for free without lifting a finger.

Can a trailer tell me how well a game runs on my PC? Aren't the specs usually flat out wrong? Would you even know the answers to these questions or do your console games not have specs?

Can you look up the game? Can you go to their website to check the recommended specs? You know, cause they always have them?

Do you think of your questions before you post? Do you think everyone on here is a console gamer? Because if you look, I have a ton of steam games.

It's the consumer's choice to look up the product before purchase...and it's always on the product as well...

Nice try.

Since the specs are usually wrong then they can't be trusted. How about a game that CTD's because it doesn't like your video card or your sound card, etc...

There is only one way to test these things out and it isn't a fuckin' trailer or specs. It's a demo.

 

[Epona]

oh look..this thread again.

I said it before and I'll say it again.

People who pirate are too lazy to get a job and buy a game. You don't need a demo to get a feel for the game. A trailer is basically, and infact, is a commercial for the game. Why should they waste their time to create a demo? Waste of time.

No one is forcing you to buy the game right away. No one is forcing you to even think of the game.

It's the consumer's choice to hype a game and want it asap, but the laziness to apply their skills to earn money to buy a game, is low.

Can't buy it? Wait a few months.

Can't wait a few months? Rent it.

Can't rent it? Well you're shit outta luck.

Video games are luxuries that not everyone can have, and people take that concept to steal anothers work without paying for it.

Also, a demo would be a short bit of the game to give you a feel. Piracy is the whole game. "If I like it, I'll buy it." That is complete horse shit. You have the full game right there, you really think anyone believes that you'll go out and buy it, when you have the full game there? No.

I earned enough from my job to buy the games I recently purchased, and I must say, it was worth the work for them.

I honestly think there really should be harder enforcement on piracy and hunt down people who do it.

It's the developers choice if they want to put out a demo too, and then they gotta get permission to release it on the system. Wasted time in my opinion.

TL;DR
Pirates are lazy and cheap and want things for free without lifting a finger.

Can a trailer tell me how well a game runs on my PC? Aren't the specs usually flat out wrong? Would you even know the answers to these questions or do your console games not have specs?

Can you look up the game? Can you go to their website to check the recommended specs? You know, cause they always have them?

Do you think of your questions before you post? Do you think everyone on here is a console gamer? Because if you look, I have a ton of steam games.

It's the consumer's choice to look up the product before purchase...and it's always on the product as well...

Nice try.

Since the specs are usually wrong then they can't be trusted. How about a game that CTD's because it doesn't like your video card or your sound card, etc...

There is only one way to test these things out and it isn't a fuckin' trailer or specs. It's a demo.

Actually no, its making sure your computer is still updated with drivers and updates that are constantly pushed out. Also, there are always bugs in games, no matter what. There is never a game released that has no bugs.

So once again, try again or get a better computer, or stick to consoles.

Updated drivers don't cancel out bugs.

Nevermind, you go on hating on people who want demos. I am done.

 

[Wolfram23]

Spoiler: A certain someone in this thread

OP: I do agree. Demos are great. I haven't played a demo besides the BF3 open beta for quite a while, and an open beta doesn't really count because it has such a small window.

Recently, though, I played the Kingdoms of Amalur demo, Darkness II demo, and I hear there's a Syndicate demo out today. The first two let me know that those games aren't worth my money, and I haven't tried the third yet.

I think demos are extremely important. Reviews are generally crap. They give you a small window to look through and rarely do much in the way of helping you purchase. Describing the controls and giving a blurb on some aspects of the gameplay is one thing, playing it is something else entirely. I don't know how many games I've seen reviews of that got high scores (7.5+) and on paper looked really good, only to go and play it and find it sucked so much ass. Not to mention on multiplatform releases, the vast majority of reviews will be on Xbox and completely ignore PC. Therefor finding a good PC version review can quite tedious and quite often isn't any different from console reviews (copy n paste) and don't touch on aspects that are important to PC gamers like if the install is a steaming pile of shit (Batman/GFWL), crashes, graphic tweaks, how well it runs, etc.

To think that a consumer isn't allowed to test a product first and must simply rely on 3rd party opinions is absolutely a flawed way of thinking. Even grocery stores let you sample food (produce, meats, cheese). Buy anything at Home Depot or the Bay and you have a week to return it, which makes up for not being able to test first.

In some cases you can return video games, I think GameStop allows this on new purchases (sometimes). But as a PC gamer, I generally don't have that option and on top of that can't sell it used more often than not, so basically it's a gamble on every purchase. I've wasted money on a lot of games I wish I had just been able to *somehow* try first.

I can never properly support piracy, but I do think there are legitimate uses for it that don't hurt the industry. There's also illegitimate uses that are easy to exploit (exploited by default) and do hurt the industry.

 

[DoPo]

I don't know where you are looking for your demos but obviously in the wrong place. There was a Battlefield 3 Beta just a few months ago.

Erm, beta =/= demo. Sure, if you play the beta, you can get a feel for the game and decide whether to buy it or not, however what if I want to give BF3 a try right now? I can't because the beta is closed. Unless the beta is available after not being even needed any more[footnote]Which is a hassle and could actually hurt sales depending on how polished it is.[/footnote], potential buyers cannot "test drive" the game.

I too am annoyed with trailers that don't have any gameplay footage - when I'm wandering whether to get a game, a cutscene tells me pretty much nothing at all about the game itself. But I believe worse yet, are the trailers that mix gameplay footage with actual pre rendered stuff...and it fires that gameplay at you at such short bursts that even if you see it, you still can't make out much.

I think Steam does the right thing with the occasional free to play weekends for a game - it's pretty much what WoW does (and other MMOs, I imagine) give the players a limited time to play the full game.

What are your opinions on this subject? Do you think that by denying us a chance to play the game before we buy the developers have inadvertantly increased people's urge to pirate?

Yes, I suppose so. There are people who pirate the game because they can't otherwise get a feel for it. Watching trailers/reviews/Let's Plays/whatever on YouTube can only give you so much information. Especially for a more expensive game, such as Batman Arkham Asylym[footnote]I don't really know if it had a demo, I'm just using it for the sake of the example.[/footnote]. The only other option there is is to go to a buddy of yours who has the game...but that's not always possible.

Now, a demo may not always be needed, but in Hastur's name, people, why not release one after all? If not, well how about giving us a good look what your game is about? I watched the Braid trailers on Steam and they made me want to buy the game, without needing to play it (although there is a demo).

Why do you think devs have stopped releasing demos?

A difficult question. A lot of things, perhaps, I wander if we'll manage to cover everything in this thread. Perhaps some of the factors are brand recognition - with so many sequels these days, it's probably expected the large portion of the gamers know about a previous game. Consider Mortal Kombat - I don't think I need a demo of any of the new games any time soon: the different games in the franchise are not that different to each other, and besides, the games have been around for so long that the majority of gamers have played them or at least seen them. A demo would accomplish nothing really, I doubt there would be many people who would change their mind whether to buy/not buy the game based on a demo.

Another factor, I can think about, is the Internet itself. OK, that's a rather large factor, so here's what I mean - thanks to the Internet, advertising and distribution of games has grew in scale and it's now it's bigger than ever. And it continues to grow. Now, back in the day[footnote]I'm talking about personal experience only, so it might have been a bit different depending on where you were.[/footnote], you probably wouldn't hear about a particular game unless a) a friend of yours played/saw it b) you paid money to get a gaming magazine. Things were small and largely on a local scale. Now I can hit YouTube for lots of videos, or go to a number of sites that do game reviews, or look up the hundreds, if not thousands, user reviews, or even go to one of the forums dedicated to the particular game. I couldn't "look it up on the Net" just like that - first, there weren't as many gaming related places to look (they weren't few either, don't make a mistake) and second, I would have to add to the phone bill. Back then, there were only two gaming related magazines that came out monthly[footnote]excluding the occasional article or two in other PC/software related magazines. Which were monthly again.[/footnote] and costed around my weekly allowance each. The magazines, however, came with these cool CDs that had a collection of game demos and other software (well, mostly demo's still). That was how me and my friends learned of new games - either by reading an article in the magazine or playing the demo. That's how we found a lot of great games. Fast forward some time later (more than a decade...OUCH, I feel bad now) and the magazines are online, now. Along with a whole bunch of other sources of information. And the demos (as many as they are) are just a few clicks away. Heck, I'm online now - I can look everything up whenever I damn like.

A trailer is basically, and infact, is a commercial for the game.

Unless it's not. Dead Island was mentioned - it had a good trailer but it had nothing to do with the gameplay. It could have been a zombie tycoon and still use the same trailer.

Why should they waste their time to create a demo? Waste of time.

And why waste time composing an entire movie based on the game? The demo could be an early version of the product with large parts chopped off, why would it take more time than creating a concept for a trailer and animating it? Well, Crimsonland's demo was Crimsonland itself - if you like it, you went and bought if for 5 bucks (or whatever it was worth) input the code and bam - get access to everything.

No one is forcing you to buy the game right away. No one is forcing you to even think of the game.

Who says I want to buy it now? What if I want to buy a game that is a couple of years old? I would somehow magically know how it plays by then?

Can't buy it? Wait a few months.

Good so far. I'm not in a rush to buy games. I usually wait anyway. Back in the day, I would sometime just install a demo I came upon and if I like it get the game. No matter it could be 2-3 years old.

Can't wait a few months? Rent it.

Erm, back in the day (again...I know. But I moved now, so things changed) I couldn't just "rent the game" - there was nowhere to rent it from.

Can't rent it? Well you're shit outta luck.

Precisely. Now if there was just some way of playing the game without going through the hassle of finding a copy and/or buying the full thin... some kind of, I dunno demonstrational piece...

I earned enough from my job to buy the games I recently purchased, and I must say, it was worth the work for them.

Erm, you bought the game you bought? That's good...I guess.

I honestly think there really should be harder enforcement on piracy and hunt down people who do it.

Only nobody is discussing this, the question is whether or not the lack of demos pushed people into trying the game in another way, not whether or not piracy should be stopped.

Can you look up the game? Can you go to their website to check the recommended specs? You know, cause they always have them?

It's the consumer's choice to look up the product before purchase...and it's always on the product as well...

You know what? I have a recent personal experience with that - Heroes 6 - my system covered all the specs and it shouldn't have been any problem to play the game. Well, it was. No, "updating the drivers" is not always a solution. And are you actually suggesting to pay even more money if we can't play a game? Take Bloodlines as another example - no amount of looking at the specs could prepare you for what to expect. The suggested specs were a flat out lie. It didn't help that the game was picky when it came to some hardware.

Oh and you know what - playing a demo is looking up the product. Just as OP mentioned giving a car a test drive. Or do you buy a car based only on commercials and looking at what parts it has? I'm sure there are some people that can do that, but others prefer to, you know, be sure what they buy is what they like.

 

[XMark]

I miss the days when free shareware demos were big enough to count as a full game on their own. Episode 1 of Doom was awesome, and IMHO better quality than the other episodes in the full game.