Dependence vs. Addiction

[Terminate421]

Dependence is when one needs it to survive.

Dependence is when you need it to survive? I see. And where do you get that definition from? Just something you've cobbled together over the years? I'd say I'm pretty dependent on my antidepressants despite them not keeping me alive directly.

When did I say that?

And before Heroin/Meth/Cocaine addiction is brought up, that stuff replaces your natural dopamine (or is it Serotonin) chemicals so technically its a dependence.

Or are you going to backflip and suggest drugs are both an addiction and a dependency, despite your fervent and numerous assertions the two are separate and carry different definitions?

You're backpedaling all over the shop and tripping over your own definitions. Maybe you aren't even sure what you think?

By God. There is no hope!

Look, this is from MY Experience and MY point of view. From the few drug addicted people I have come across this is what I've decided to do for MY definition. If its not part of the medical dictionary, fine. But it isn't necessary to attack me for my view. Those were my definitions for how the words can be used towards a drug addict and that is that.

As far as your anti-deppresants are concerned, I don't believe you are dependent or addicted to either (At least from what I can tell on the few words mentioned here)

I say my view and I get attacked, I'm done with this thread now.

 

[Terminate421]

Addiction is when one desires something badly but can survive without it.
Dependence is when one needs it to survive.

See? There's the difference. It's that simple...

Thank you! Someone sees my point precisely.
The difference between definitions is how it affects ones ability to live.

 

[agnosticOCD]

Well, since my schedule's tied up tomorrow and I got to have a similar talk on a different place where I also posted this topic, I'd say I'll just wait and see where you people go from here... Like I said, there's a lot I don't know, but I do believe there's a difference, so I'm hoping to learn something from you guys about this too, aside from the other places. I'll read all this in the morning.

 

[Shio]

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One cannot expect to voice an opinion (especially one so ill-defined by themselves and one they go on to contradict) and have it go unchallenged.

 

[agnosticOCD]

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One cannot expect to voice an opinion (especially one so ill-defined by themselves and one they go on to contradict) and have it go unchallenged.

So... what's that got to do with drugs, alcohol, withdrawal vs a bit of a break, people in rehab, porn, and misplaced use of law enforcement?

 

[Shio]

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One cannot expect to voice an opinion (especially one so ill-defined by themselves and one they go on to contradict) and have it go unchallenged.

So... what's that got to do with drugs, alcohol, withdrawal vs a bit of a break, people in rehab, porn, and misplaced use of law enforcement?

If I had any idea what you are trying to ask, I would respond.

 

[agnosticOCD]

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One cannot expect to voice an opinion (especially one so ill-defined by themselves and one they go on to contradict) and have it go unchallenged.

So... what's that got to do with drugs, alcohol, withdrawal vs a bit of a break, people in rehab, porn, and misplaced use of law enforcement?

If I had any idea what you are trying to ask, I would respond.

(Good luck.)
You would if you'd read my original post instead of merely attacking someone else.

Like here...

"Dependence is when you need it to survive? I see. And where do you get that definition from? Just something you've cobbled together over the years? I'd say I'm pretty dependent on my antidepressants despite them not keeping me alive directly."

Yes... you seem dependent on your antidepressants even though they don't keep you alive directly. It's a need, which, if not satiated, would cause some physical harm. So no matter what scale, that's dependence. Now, I do think that saying dependence is when something is required for survival would be a stretch. That's not always the case, but if there is a need for something that would cause consequences on the individual if not taken care of, then there's dependence, not addiction.

And here...

"Or are you going to backflip and suggest drugs are both an addiction and a dependency, despite your fervent and numerous assertions the two are separate and carry different definitions?"

I stated in an earlier post that these terms are separate and carry definitions, and that addiction leads to dependence. Drugs make you feel something that replaces a bad feeling. You like it. You don't want to stop it. You've only just started so it's not harming your system that much... yet. That's addiction. Once you feel some kind of hunger for it, and it starts to hurt when you can't get a sniff, whether or not it still makes you feel happy, that's dependence. You don't want it anymore, but you now find yourself needing it after it's been in your system for a long time.

So yes, they're different. Drugs aren't an addiction and/or dependency. They're chemicals. What we do with them and how it affects us is when you should say that someone is either just addicted to it's charm, or begins need it despite it not actually helping make their days better.

I dunno. I just wish that people didn't have to be so annoying when they disagree with each other.

 

[Shio]

words

I don't think you understand the concept of debate.

 

[agnosticOCD]

Off-topic rant:

It's always "this is how it is" or "you're a moron for that point."
Nobody ever says "I think it's this way" or "I think this is how it works."

Key phrase there, people: "I think..."

And some even pretend like everyone agrees with them and use phrases like "how the rest of us does it."

And I haven't even seen ANY of you post a link to a reliable source. I was just speaking what I thought, open for correction and clarification while the rest of you regurgitate ad hominems and petty insults. Sure, the valid points are there, but the drama is sickeningly unavoidable.

It tires me to have to see people say their own statements without ever thinking that they're not automatically right just because someone else agrees with them or because someone's thoughts are different.

Okay. Rant over. Still open for whoever might have something to contribute.

 

[agnosticOCD]

Katatori has it right, you are stretching the definitions. Dependance is essentially what determines addiction. Whether it's chemical, emotional or psychological an addiction is formed out of dependance.

However, I do not think Dependance = Addiction. It's more Addiction requires dependance (Dependance does not mean addiction, or babies would be born addicted).

I see it as the opposite. Being addicted to something, which, in how I've put it, is basically liking something very much to the point of not wanting to quit, causes dependence once you start to realize that you feel pain without that something, even if you now want to stop doing it. I think dependence requires addiction.

Im pretty sure that not all those guys out there sucking dick for crack enjoy it all that much. They are addicted to it and are willing to do anything to get rid of the withdrawal symptoms. They dont want it but they feel that they need it.

Addicted, as I said, means they want it. If they DON'T want it, but due to withdrawal symptoms, NEED it, then that's what I would call dependence.

 

[agnosticOCD]

words

I don't think you understand the concept of debate.

Never did, never wanted to. I've always found it easier to just spread around ideas informally, with responses that don't agree being, at the very least, funny instead of angry. I post on forums to talk, not to scream at one another, pretending to understand everything the opposing side thinks. I'm just a sociology student fuckup. I try to study people, I don't have to be uptight and go on irrelevant formal drama about it.

 

[agnosticOCD]

oops. double post.

 

[Shio]

words

I don't think you understand the concept of debate.

Never did, never wanted to. I've always found it easier to just spread around ideas informally, with responses that don't agree being, at the very least, funny instead of angry. I post on forums to talk, not to scream at one another, pretending to understand everything the opposing side thinks. I'm just a sociology student fuckup. I try to study people, I don't have to be uptight and go on irrelevant formal drama about it.

Cancel that. It seems you don't understand what debate actually means, as nothing you suggested is by default part of debate.

 

[Thespian]

Actually, I think volition does somewhat define the terms, but in a different way.
For example, if you are addicted, you will not want to stop. You are addicted to it - Hence it's psychological and not just chemical, so in other words you are emotionally addicted to it. You are convinced that it is best for you to keep doing whatever the substance or practice in question is.

However, if you want to stop but cannot because of how harmful it is, that is Dependence. Your body needs it to go on, physically.

 

[agnosticOCD]

Actually, I think volition does somewhat define the terms, but in a different way.
For example, if you are addicted, you will not want to stop. You are addicted to it - Hence it's psychological and not just chemical, so in other words you are emotionally addicted to it. You are convinced that it is best for you to keep doing whatever the substance or practice in question is.

However, if you want to stop but cannot because of how harmful it is, that is Dependence. Your body needs it to go on, physically.

Any questions?

 

[agnosticOCD]

Addicted, as I said, means they want it. If they DON'T want it, but due to withdrawal symptoms, NEED it, then that's what I would call dependence.

You cant just change the definition of a word that is extremely well defined in the medical world. Just because thats what you WANT the definition of addiction and dependence to mean that does not mean that its true.


Definition of ADDICTION
1: the quality or state of being addicted
2: compulsive need for and use of a habit-forming substance (as heroin, nicotine, or alcohol) characterized by tolerance and by well-defined physiological symptoms upon withdrawal; broadly : persistent compulsive use of a substance known by the user to be harmful

Definition of DEPENDENCE
1: the quality or state of being dependent; especially : the quality or state of being influenced or determined by or subject to another
2: reliance, trust
3: one that is relied on
4a : drug addiction

END OF DISCUSSION

Just so you know.. I've been saying "OPEN FOR FUCKING CORRECTION" all night.. get me a source, just to make it more convincing.
Fine, so that's how it's defined, and they're the same thing, but are there any stages where an addiction is still something that isn't physically harmful enough for one to be able to intervene? As I've mentioned, shit like this can take over and people may act in response to their need of X and cause harm to themselves and other people. Also, what things are there that are considered "addicting" but aren't at all harmful anyway? I've said these in the original post. Whether or not there's a difference in their definition, there's still somethings regarding people's addictions to certain things that must be considered like which are harmful, and which are harmless vices, or what are the least invasive ways to deal with these things (I've mentioned legalizing drugs and just making rehab more effective, which seems kinda silly, but I'm one to think that it would be better, especially since there would be little reason for drug trade violence if it were legal, and I've also mentioned that it might not be in everyone's interest if we lock up someone for using drugs instead of helping get rid of their need for it).

 

[Dastardly]

I think too many people ignore the potential for emotional dependence, which can be every bit as intense as physical/chemical dependence--right down to severe withdrawal symptoms. Applying the word "addiction" to things like games doesn't cheapen the word, in and of itself.

But then you have to compare it to things that aren't physically addictive but are very emotionally addictive as you put it, cannabis for example.

Yep, you do. Because someone can develop an extremely harmful habit of use, to the point that it negatively impacts many aspects of their life--work, relationships, etc. Quitting can cause them to be physically and mentally unhealthy for quite awhile, too.

In the end, what we'll come to as a conclusion is that addiction/dependency/etc. are actually a pattern of behaviors, often accompanied by a pattern of physical symptoms (known as withdrawal). The actual subject of the addiction (alcohol, heroine, gaming, whatever) isn't necessarily a defining component of the addiction (though it can have a profound impact on symptoms of withdrawal).

 

[Pearwood]

The actual subject of the addiction (alcohol, heroine, gaming, whatever) isn't necessarily a defining component of the addiction (though it can have a profound impact on symptoms of withdrawal).

I think this is like the "is 0 an even or an odd number" thread, there's a very specific definition of addiction that won't change no matter how you philosophise about it.

 

[Xero Scythe]

I think you're redefining terms here. In a clinical sense, addiction = dependence.

Actually, no, that's not correct. Addiction is defined as the mental neccessity for a drug or other object. An addiction would be something like not having the willpower to resist taking a drink. I'm sorry if I'm defining it poorly- it's a rather hard subject to define.

However, Dependence is easier. Dependence is the physical need for a drug or object. This is best shown with cocaine, which physically restructures the human brain so that the human body will literally stop functioning and die. This can also happen with alcohol, if the addiction becomes severe enough.

It's more like Addiction->Dependency.

 

[Dastardly]

The actual subject of the addiction (alcohol, heroine, gaming, whatever) isn't necessarily a defining component of the addiction (though it can have a profound impact on symptoms of withdrawal).

I think this is like the "is 0 an even or an odd number" thread, there's a very specific definition of addiction that won't change no matter how you philosophise about it.

I disagree. I think the symptoms of addiction are very specifically defined, but the scope of addiction has always been up for debate (except with a few groups that declare themselves right by fiat).