DESHI BASARA (Dark Knight Rises "chant",clarification, and discussion) *SPOILERS*
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Would have made that line a lot better, too - 'I like your name - you should use it more often, Dick!' (paraphrased but you catch my drift)Toasty Virus said:
I always thought the whole "Batman is Bruce Wayne's true persona" was poor character development. He's Bruce Wayne. A human who isn't dynamic and doesn't grow is not a good character. Nolan made Batman a better character by making him Bruce Wayne. A human being has to learn to move past death and grief. Why do you think we support others to help them movie on?Swny Nerdgasm said:
I think he meant that in terms of actual 'air time' Bruce Wayne/Batman doesn't have a whole lot.Gregory McMillan said:
Catwoman, Gordan, Bane and Blake also have their own sections, as well as other characters. As such, you don't see Bale's character all that much.
So when it all adds up, Batman/Bruce are not around that much.
Correction: in case you didn't already know, Selina Kyle's never referred to once as "Catwoman". But anyway, I do think that Bruce Wayne technically was still the main character, even if the plot kind of temporarily left him in the prison while it focused on Bane's master plan. It still put a spotlight on Bruce and Alfred's crumbling relationship, and Bruce trying to shake off the Batman "destiny" that he had, and it was less about "let's see Batman kick some ass" and more "he needs to basically retrain himself so he can beat Bane and finally drop the cape and cowl for good".Legion said:
But I think The Dark Knight Rises was a fitting conclusion to the saga. Although, to be honest, I probably would've preferred it if Batman actually died in the end. But him faking his death, retreating into the shadows with Kyle, and the scene towards the end when he and Alfred acknowledge each other's presence in the cafe in Italy was pretty nice.
I do think that Blake's real name should've been "Dick Grayson" rather than flat-out "Robin", and I don't think Nolan did that to make it more obvious for his audience. That just doesn't sound like Nolan's style; he's more about subtext. So perhaps the theory that he's an amalgamation of Dick, Jason and Todd (the three "Robin"s) was what he was going for. And the whole "anyone can be Batman" theme in both this and the previous films, along with the final scene with Blake discovering the Batcave and "rising", implied, to me, that Blake pretty much became Batman's successor. Although, with the Dent Act putting most of organized crime behind bars, Commissioner Gordon and his good allies behind him, I wonder if there'd be much actual crime for the new "Batman" to clear up.
I'd like to thank you for directing me to this video once again, I've been telling people about it for years.Kordie said:
OT: I love Nolan's ability to take flamboyant comic book characters and ground them in reality. I was a little disappointed the first time I saw Bane (even though I'm a huge fan of Hardy and knew he'd do it justice) because he didn't look anything like comic book Bane.
After seeing him in the film, though, there was absolutely no way they could have given him a lucha libre mask and then expected him to be taken seriously as a criminal mastermind, and the idea that
his mask was supplying a constant anaesthetic for the injuries he sustained in the pit instead of venom
was another good example of Nolan's ability to take comic book soft science and turn it into a (slightly) more believable plot point.
Ever since a friend of mine pointed out that it sounded like "This is Sparta. Sparta." That's all I've ever been able to hear from it.
Just because she's not referred to as catwoman in the film doesn't mean she isn't catwoman. Referring to her as such in a discussion isn't a mistake.Relish in Chaos said:
OK, fair enough.WaysideMaze said:
I did like the twist with Miranda Tate turning out to be Talia, the daughter of Ra's al Ghul and the child who escaped the prison, not Bane. And, contrary to my initial thoughts, Anne Hathaway played a brilliantly compelling and dimensional Catwoman.
However, there was one thing that I was a bit confused by. I can understand Talia wanting to kill Batman to avenge her father, but why would she want to continue the League of Shadows' plot to destroy Gotham when the Dent Act had pretty much cleared up most of the organized crime? That's part of the reason why Batman retreated into the shadows, because Gotham didn't need him anymore, but also why he was struggling to maintain a normal life without the chaos to warrant his presence.
It was basically her and Bane's actions who plunged Gotham back into anarchy when they exposed Dent's (potentially justifiable) murders. Unless it's the fact that the rich still thrived while the poor suffered (perhaps offering itself as a social commentary to the real-life financial status of classes today), so even if organized crime itself was technically destroyed, there was still widespread poverty. This could also have links with "Robin" John Blake, as in "Robin Hood", who "stole from the rich to give to the poor", and could be a hint as to why he could do as the next Batman.
And I wasn't particularly a fan of Bane's voice, which sounded too muffled to properly hear his words at times. Also, I'm not sure if its exaggeration was a result of Tom Hardy's mixture of a put-on posh/British and/or Caribbean (yeah, why posh/British and/or Caribbean, he wasn't even raised there) accent, or to highlight how the pain of his injuries controlled by his mask was affecting him (like the occasions when his voice sounded strangely high-pitched and shuddery). Either way, I guess they had to do something more to make him unique, so it wasn't entirely bad or anything. Just a bit odd and could've been better.
I also hope that Crane (making a cameo as a kangaroo court judge of sorts, in the midst of the riots triggered by Bane) and the rest of the criminals released by Bane were put back into prison, as I don't believe that was a thread which was tied up.
I took Talia's mission to destory Gotham being motivated from two directions. First; it's what her father planned and she wants to follow through. She may not be fully aware of the reason for the plan and she may not care, she just wants to finish his mission. Second; fuck you batman. I felt like personal revenge was a big motivation, kinda like "you killed my dad to protect this city, so I will kill you while destroying this city."Relish in Chaos said:
I have mixed feelings about Bane's voice... A lot of the time I was fine with it, then some times it came off as a bad sean connery impersonation.
That's understandable, but it just feels a bit empty if Gotham had mostly been cleansed by Harvey Dent anyway, so, regardless of what Talia may or may not have known, there was no need for her to basically orchestrate Gotham's descent into chaos again. Everything was fine until Bane exposed Gordon's cover-up of Dent's crimes and persuaded the people to "take back their city". Just because the rich guys were still being greedy power-whores isn't any excuse to plung it into a state worse than before. It sounds like "supervillain" logic, rather than "we think we're doing the right wring, but we're actually just cynical bastards who've given themselves unwarranted authority" logic.Kordie said:
Oh, and Catwoman felt more like a plot device than an established character. To be honest, my overall feeling towards her was ?meh?, and I felt like her relationship with Batman and them fleeing together to start a new life was kind of shoehorned in, just because the thing with Miranda Tate, who turned out to be Talia, didn?t work out. I mean, come on, this woman stole his father?s pearls, then betrayed him to a guy who ended up breaking his back?and then they form an awkward alliance and randomly kiss while the bomb?s still ticking down. I couldn't care less whether she got a clean slate, lived, died, whatever. It felt like she was just there to be there, like Nolan just wanted to give the character another go, perhaps less sexualized (but she still ended up being pretty damn sexy in her costumes anyway), but then didn't really know what to do with her.
Furthermore, Batman passing the mantle over to this newly introduced rookie cop with virtually no martial arts training who almost got himself shot on the bridge. And after he escaped from the pit, how did he suddenly return unannounced without any form of transport, without facial hear and clean clothes? He just walked right up to Selina Kyle and she didn't even question how the fuck he was there, when the last time she'd seen him, he was on the receiving end of Bane's knee. And yeah, "The World's Greatest Detective" was brasher than he should've been, and while I was fine with there being more air time for Bruce Wayne than Batman, we didn't really get to see enough of Batman's gadgets, other than his new Bat.
Despite all this, I liked The Dark Knight Rises. I liked seeing Batman as an older, rusty man without a purpose who basically had to retrain himself to defeat Bane and return to Gotham. I liked his first fight with Bane, including the iconic back-breaker. I liked him failing, not once, but twice, before he finally escaped from the prison (mirroring him falling into a well with bats, but instead of being helped out by his father, he had to "rise" using his own strength). I liked the twist of Miranda Tate turning out to be Talia, who was the child that escaped from the prison, not Bane, who turned out to be her accomplice. Even acknowledging its flaws (if they actually killed off Batman and, perhaps, developed Blake and Kyle a bit more, it would've been even better), I more or less liked the conclusion.
I don't think it's better or worse than the previous installments, since I prefer to look it as a whole saga. It's not as if The Dark Knight (which, no, isn't the groundbreaking superhero film everyone were calling it) didn't have its flaws too.
Really? I loved Banes voice . Very manly , confident , with a hint of condensention ( is that a word) . He sounded exacly like deckard cain from diablo 2/3 . Which made it more awsome imo . I think bane was the best part of the movie . Also the emotion between bruce and alfred was good .Kordie said:
I hated catwoman though . I hated the actress they chose to play her . I hated her role in the movie , i hated how she was dressed . Not that she played her "wrong" just i was just like "why is this necessary " .
The funny thing is, that for hebrew-speakers, such as myself, that chant sounds very much like "Deshea Basa" - Hebrew for Grass* Bummer. That made the movie kinda silly for me
*Actual Grass, not the drug kind
*Actual Grass, not the drug kind
Although it was a bit rushed. The ending with Alfred sitting at the table and seeing Bruce and Selena was just perfect for me.
Also, as painful and depressing as it was to watch, Batman's first face off with Bane was pretty epic. Actually, every scene with Bane was epic. Not quite as awesome as the Joker but pretty damn close IMO.
Also, as painful and depressing as it was to watch, Batman's first face off with Bane was pretty epic. Actually, every scene with Bane was epic. Not quite as awesome as the Joker but pretty damn close IMO.
Wakikifudge said:
I saw my hero get utterly destroyed. I did not think that could be possible. I had my hands over my head in the theater with my jaw hitting the floor. But then rising out of that pit, he became greater than he ever was. Nolan showed Bruce Wayne at his finest, he showed his sheer willpower more than any other Batman film, and that is worthy of respect.
Watching him punch Bane's mask in and bashing his head against the concrete was a rush.
Then he gave Alfred the greatest gift of all at the end. It's funny how we don't expect him to do the nice little things, but Batman always shows small acts of compassion.
People. This is simple. Deshi Basara= Rise; Name of the pit or that prison: LAZARUS, Who is this Guy? He was Resurrected (by Jesus Crist), so all that mean is a kind of resurrection of the Bruce Wayne (Batman)'s spirit or soul, a renewed mindsets to be free and fight better. Furthermore, all of us in some moment of our lives need that Deshi Basara.