Destiny- does it exist?
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Destiny, no. A chain of events, technically yes...
Everything works according to physics, even if we haven't discovered the rules yet: Every speck of dust, every gust of wind, every electron in your brain, is the *result* of something else. If you could map *everything* out perfectly, and process it perfectly, you'd be able to simulate the future - set in stone. Every moodswing, every whim, every random thought as a result of the chemicals and electrons in your brain. Obviously, you can't simulate everything - nobody'd every be able to do this - you'd have to create an exact duplicate of our world (which would make a duplicate of it's world too, and where'd we get the matter for all these worlds?), but technically, everything's in motion and there's only one way everything will play out.
Because you'd never be able to see all the zillions of forces acting on you, this really doesn't mean squat. Practically speaking, we can make choices.
Everything works according to physics, even if we haven't discovered the rules yet: Every speck of dust, every gust of wind, every electron in your brain, is the *result* of something else. If you could map *everything* out perfectly, and process it perfectly, you'd be able to simulate the future - set in stone. Every moodswing, every whim, every random thought as a result of the chemicals and electrons in your brain. Obviously, you can't simulate everything - nobody'd every be able to do this - you'd have to create an exact duplicate of our world (which would make a duplicate of it's world too, and where'd we get the matter for all these worlds?), but technically, everything's in motion and there's only one way everything will play out.
Because you'd never be able to see all the zillions of forces acting on you, this really doesn't mean squat. Practically speaking, we can make choices.
I feel the same way.Simriel said:
I have a different take on the matter though.
I believe that our lives are predetermined, but each choice we make takes us down a different path. Kind of like a flow chart. Not all choices will lead us down a different path, but some will and it can change your life for the better (or worse). Lives are predetermined in a way that you can make good or bad choices to have a different ending.
My life so far, has been going down the wrong path. I haven't made bad decisions, so to speak, but they haven't been the ones that will take me to a better path and ending.
I fully believe in destiny (I prefer Fate) and hate it, but it makes sense to me.
Does it matter?
If you live as you live you'll go where you're going. Change it and it'll change.
The world's greatest lie is that you have no control over your life.
If you live as you live you'll go where you're going. Change it and it'll change.
The world's greatest lie is that you have no control over your life.
I don't think so. I'd like to think the Universe (or God, if you prefer) is just making shit up as it goes along, and it's up to us to decide what we do with our lives. I don't believe in destiny OR its reductionist cousin determinism.
Yes and no, but then again yes but kinda maybe no.
It all depends on whether the universe is at it's core predetermined or chaotic. If the latter, the movement of the smalles particles is at least partially random, thus technically anything could happen as time goes by... However, if not and everything in universe follows some strict rules of physics, everything that has happened and will happen could have been prediceted from the moment universe began.
Which is essentially fate, though it doesn't include meaningful stars guiding humans through life as much as raw pattern of physical laws.
Regardless of which one it is, no, humans have no free will or ability to choose their own path. Even if there's chaos, we don't control it and it's on such a small level it takes place that it hardly has noticable effect anyway. There is electricity running through your nerves we call feelings and thoughts, activating other nerves. They are very much real but we cannot change their paths, we are just the product of them.
Even if there's a higher plane where souls of some sort exists, how can they touch our brain, or be even located in such a precise position as our brain, when their nature is untouchable and undetectable, which would mean they can't even touch matter. And we are made of matter.
It all depends on whether the universe is at it's core predetermined or chaotic. If the latter, the movement of the smalles particles is at least partially random, thus technically anything could happen as time goes by... However, if not and everything in universe follows some strict rules of physics, everything that has happened and will happen could have been prediceted from the moment universe began.
Which is essentially fate, though it doesn't include meaningful stars guiding humans through life as much as raw pattern of physical laws.
Regardless of which one it is, no, humans have no free will or ability to choose their own path. Even if there's chaos, we don't control it and it's on such a small level it takes place that it hardly has noticable effect anyway. There is electricity running through your nerves we call feelings and thoughts, activating other nerves. They are very much real but we cannot change their paths, we are just the product of them.
Even if there's a higher plane where souls of some sort exists, how can they touch our brain, or be even located in such a precise position as our brain, when their nature is untouchable and undetectable, which would mean they can't even touch matter. And we are made of matter.
Fate and destiny are things I believe in a rather different manner. Such things are products of choice, but not just our individual choices but the choices and actions brought about by every individual that affects your life. We do not entirely control our lives as the actions of others adversely impact our lives. The actions of your parents are a good example, how much of their influence has propelled your life?, the adults that educate you?, the friends and peers you meet? We are both in control and yet not in control I believe.
There are things we can take grasp of, while others things are at the whim of another individual whose actions will bring about a certain outcome in your own life. How much of us is really our choice and not the actions of others, and who have we shaped in turn? Well thats just how I see things, we are in control and yet there are things that are solely left for others to decide. (Ech...I'm not very good at witting down or portraying my thoughts into speech, but in my head it makes a lot more sense.)
Two sayings I have when it comes to fate and destiny are:
-"Who we where, who we are now, and who we will be is not a matter of fate or destiny, but a manifestation of choice"
-"The future is less set in stone than it is written on paper"
There are things we can take grasp of, while others things are at the whim of another individual whose actions will bring about a certain outcome in your own life. How much of us is really our choice and not the actions of others, and who have we shaped in turn? Well thats just how I see things, we are in control and yet there are things that are solely left for others to decide. (Ech...I'm not very good at witting down or portraying my thoughts into speech, but in my head it makes a lot more sense.)
Two sayings I have when it comes to fate and destiny are:
-"Who we where, who we are now, and who we will be is not a matter of fate or destiny, but a manifestation of choice"
-"The future is less set in stone than it is written on paper"
Think about it this way: you have the power to make great changes in other people's lives. Isn't that a tremendous responsibility? I mean, you could come into someone else's life, and effect them in ways that they themselves have little control over. You could be a noise in the background, a faint tug on someone's sleeve, or you could make a decision to have a profound impact on a *specific* life. That's pretty cool, isn't it?-Seraph- said:
I mean, it'd have to go both ways.
So are you agreeing or disagreeing with what I said? Sorry it's late and me heads a bit fuzzy.ThrobbingEgo said:
Anyways yea it is rather interesting how much power and influence even the smallest person has. Everyone everywhere at any time past or present has in a way affected the paths of an untold amount of individuals. One could have walked an entirely different path in life if even the slightest of choice from someone else was taken away or differed.
There is no way to disprove fate, because if you do something other than what you believe your destiny is, it's still how it was always planned to happen.
I agree to a degree. I think people have an effect on people, but I don't think we're silly putty that can be just totally molded by anything we see. After all, advertising is 99% failure. What I was just saying, in your view, as an intentional being you hold a lot of power (even if you don't have a lot of control over who you are). I think that capacity for effecting others is cool.-Seraph- said:
How much detail is this destiny? is it like every choice in your life is laid out for you, or just big stuff. Most stuff could be avoided if you tried to, cause if you knew it was "meant" to happen, you could make other choices to screw over destiny.neuromasser said:
Say i was destinied to marry someone specific, if no'one knew any1 could say it was my destiny after it had happened, but if people, myself included, knew it was destiny before it happened, i could marry someone else instead, and then i would've beat destiny.
Yes if you believe in an all powerful all knowing being that controls all of reality but loves you a big huggy bunch for wearing his favorite stupid hat.
No if you are an atheist who thinks everything in your life is your own damn fault so shut up and stop crying.
Meh if you are one of the few happy people whose main concern in life is whether to do some random combination of whores, drugs and alcohol before you black out another nights debauchery.
No if you are an atheist who thinks everything in your life is your own damn fault so shut up and stop crying.
Meh if you are one of the few happy people whose main concern in life is whether to do some random combination of whores, drugs and alcohol before you black out another nights debauchery.
I don't know, do I look like a master of the universe?teisjm said:
I always thought that if there was destiny it would determine every single thing, because you can live only in one time-stream at once.
A fixed plot for the world? No. Some old skits we run, with great attention to recreating each detail? Yes. To take a Pratchettesque approach, some events have 'historical inertia' or to use his term out of context, 'narrative inertia'. Like a snowball, some things approach a certainty of 1 with great predictability, like two countries escalating to a war or playing naked twister will lead to awkwardness. There's no overarching 'plan', but to say our lives aren't guided by natural factors like instinct, habit, human nature and plain physics is a bit stupid. Some things just lead to others, and this can cause chains of events. There's a reason we can predict some things, you know.
It's only inertia, it can be stopped. Sometimes just not easily, or with the power we are provided.
Simple version: sometimes, shit is just bound to happen... and sometimes it doesn't, but you wouldn't bet against the odds. Think of it like a set of road rules, rather than being on a bus.
It's not magic, it's just what happens.
It's only inertia, it can be stopped. Sometimes just not easily, or with the power we are provided.
Simple version: sometimes, shit is just bound to happen... and sometimes it doesn't, but you wouldn't bet against the odds. Think of it like a set of road rules, rather than being on a bus.
It's not magic, it's just what happens.
