Deus Ex -- otherwise known as the first game to actually kill me during the tutorial.

Enkidu88

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The Madman said:
Hell, it's even possible to kill several extremely important characters right within the first section of the game. And no, the game doesn't then bug out, it's a legitimate option open to you.
Damn it! Now I have to go reinstall it and try that out. I always assumed it would bug out if I did that, even though I've been tempted to off everyone in the building.

OT: Deus Ex is very unforgiving, but is also one of the most open games I've ever played. Even years after my original playthrough I find out new things that I can do in the game.

For instance the first time I played through the first level I had much the same experience as you, I tried playing it like a DOOM game and just running and gunning. And then getting my ass kicked repeatedly. Finally after getting over the culture shock of this new type of gameplay I snuck through the base, abandoned Gunther to his fate and continued on with my primary objective eager to move on from the the level. My most recent playthrough, by contrast, I went through the level like an assassin. Gleefully dispatching each and every last guard on the map with only my knife, cackling madly like a psychopath. It felt so much more satisfying, I felt like a predator hiding in the dark, stalking my prey and then quickly slaughter them as I pounced from the shadows. In fact I completed most of the game with only my knife and my hacking skills that playthrough.

Gah, why is this reinstalling so slow!
 

TsunamiWombat

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Owyn_Merrilin said:
Well, the holidays are here, which means only one thing to PC gamers: Steam sales! I'm incredibly cheap when it comes to buying for myself, so there haven't been many games that screamed out at me so far, but there was one deal I couldn't pass up: Deus Ex for $2.49. That's U.S. dollars, not pounds sterling. Needless to say I bought it, installed it, and played through the tutorial. Upon reaching the final part of the tutorial, I pick up a box of dynamite, drop it in the wrong place, and have my legs crippled. I spend the next couple of minutes crawling around, getting shot by the robot, and generally failing to get to the other side of the ditch. While it was apparently impossible to actually die during the tutorial, I had managed to render it impossible to complete.

Thinking to myself "no big deal, it's optional and I've already learned what it was supposed to teach me, I'll just start the game." I start the game, take a few steps out into the world... and die. "No big deal, I'll reload the autosave and restart the mission." There is no autosave. I have to create my character, again. I recreate the character, take about twice as many steps into the world, and die once again. I forgot to save this time, so I once again create a new character and restart. This time I save, take a few steps out, and die. After about ten tries, I finally get to the dock with the informant I'm supposed to meet, try to shock a guard with a cattle prod, have him just stand there instead of going down, and wind up distracting me long enough for his buddy to kill me. This is the hardest freaking FPS I have ever played in my life.

For discussion value: For those of you who love Deus Ex, what exactly do you see in it? I get the feeling that I'll enjoy it if I can actually get a decent distance into the game, but so far it's at I Wanna Be the Guy levels of frustration. Did I mention that I'm playing on medium difficulty? For those of you who haven't played the game, do you have any stories of ridiculously frustrating games?

Edit: Fixed some grammatical issues in the post; nothing too major, just some misspellings and tense disagreements.
Going back to Deus Ex now IS a bit of a shock, but mostly because of old design philosophy- IE, theres no Autosave, and no handholding in the tutorial. Remember how old it is.

The problem is your playing it as a FPS. It's not. It's an RPG with FPS trappings, everything you do is handled by calculation in the backround. Late game, if you up your gun skills, it becomes like an FPS, but situations still almost universally require tactical thinking and taking advantage of your environment. If you try to run and gun, for at least half the game you WILL die.

Deus Ex is considered stellar for it's writing, it's story, and it's choice. You can choose to do almost everything. At one point a superior will order you to kill a prisoner. You can Follow orders, or refuse until that superior does it themselves. Or, and I just found this out years later on another play through, you can KILL THAT SUPERIOR AND COVER IT UP.

It doesn't actually change the direction of the plot much, but the sheer fact you can do it is...tremendous.

Deus Ex was a highly intellectual game. I'd suggest the second if you wanted more of a fpsy experiance, but the fact of the matter is Invisible War was technologically inferior in every way, due to being developed primarily for the X-Box.

The Third is coming out soon, many fans are worried. But it may be more up your alley.
 

Judgement101

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I've died in the tutorial for: Kingdom Hearts 1 & 2 (shut up), Fallout New Vegas (shut up again), and Assassin's Creed.
 

Owyn_Merrilin

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TsunamiWombat said:
Owyn_Merrilin said:
Well, the holidays are here, which means only one thing to PC gamers: Steam sales! I'm incredibly cheap when it comes to buying for myself, so there haven't been many games that screamed out at me so far, but there was one deal I couldn't pass up: Deus Ex for $2.49. That's U.S. dollars, not pounds sterling. Needless to say I bought it, installed it, and played through the tutorial. Upon reaching the final part of the tutorial, I pick up a box of dynamite, drop it in the wrong place, and have my legs crippled. I spend the next couple of minutes crawling around, getting shot by the robot, and generally failing to get to the other side of the ditch. While it was apparently impossible to actually die during the tutorial, I had managed to render it impossible to complete.

Thinking to myself "no big deal, it's optional and I've already learned what it was supposed to teach me, I'll just start the game." I start the game, take a few steps out into the world... and die. "No big deal, I'll reload the autosave and restart the mission." There is no autosave. I have to create my character, again. I recreate the character, take about twice as many steps into the world, and die once again. I forgot to save this time, so I once again create a new character and restart. This time I save, take a few steps out, and die. After about ten tries, I finally get to the dock with the informant I'm supposed to meet, try to shock a guard with a cattle prod, have him just stand there instead of going down, and wind up distracting me long enough for his buddy to kill me. This is the hardest freaking FPS I have ever played in my life.

For discussion value: For those of you who love Deus Ex, what exactly do you see in it? I get the feeling that I'll enjoy it if I can actually get a decent distance into the game, but so far it's at I Wanna Be the Guy levels of frustration. Did I mention that I'm playing on medium difficulty? For those of you who haven't played the game, do you have any stories of ridiculously frustrating games?

Edit: Fixed some grammatical issues in the post; nothing too major, just some misspellings and tense disagreements.
Going back to Deus Ex now IS a bit of a shock, but mostly because of old design philosophy- IE, theres no Autosave, and no handholding in the tutorial. Remember how old it is.

The problem is your playing it as a FPS. It's not. It's an RPG with FPS trappings, everything you do is handled by calculation in the backround. Late game, if you up your gun skills, it becomes like an FPS, but situations still almost universally require tactical thinking and taking advantage of your environment. If you try to run and gun, for at least half the game you WILL die.

Deus Ex is considered stellar for it's writing, it's story, and it's choice. You can choose to do almost everything. At one point a superior will order you to kill a prisoner. You can Follow orders, or refuse until that superior does it themselves. Or, and I just found this out years later on another play through, you can KILL THAT SUPERIOR AND COVER IT UP.

It doesn't actually change the direction of the plot much, but the sheer fact you can do it is...tremendous.

Deus Ex was a highly intellectual game. I'd suggest the second if you wanted more of a fpsy experiance, but the fact of the matter is Invisible War was technologically inferior in every way, due to being developed primarily for the X-Box.

The Third is coming out soon, many fans are worried. But it may be more up your alley.
That actually makes it sound a lot more fun, and explains pretty much all of the problems I was having. Despite my history with the genre, I'm not the stereotypical twitchy FPS player. As an example, I spent several hours the other day trying to figure out Dwarf Fortress, and the only reason I haven't played past that is severely limited time. I like RPGs, but, as you put it, I was expecting an FPS out of Deus Ex. Maybe it will fall into place if I shift that mental gear.
 

blankedboy

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I only played the first couple levels before I got a virus and Program Files got wiped (yay, my documents is still here <3) aaand I couldn't be bothered getting back into it, but I think I might, now...

And yeah, I put the dynamite in the wrong place and crippled myself too xD
 

BonsaiK

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Nov 14, 2007
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Owyn_Merrilin said:
Well, the holidays are here, which means only one thing to PC gamers: Steam sales! I'm incredibly cheap when it comes to buying for myself, so there haven't been many games that screamed out at me so far, but there was one deal I couldn't pass up: Deus Ex for $2.49. That's U.S. dollars, not pounds sterling. Needless to say I bought it, installed it, and played through the tutorial. Upon reaching the final part of the tutorial, I pick up a box of dynamite, drop it in the wrong place, and have my legs crippled. I spend the next couple of minutes crawling around, getting shot by the robot, and generally failing to get to the other side of the ditch. While it was apparently impossible to actually die during the tutorial, I had managed to render it impossible to complete.

Thinking to myself "no big deal, it's optional and I've already learned what it was supposed to teach me, I'll just start the game." I start the game, take a few steps out into the world... and die. "No big deal, I'll reload the autosave and restart the mission." There is no autosave. I have to create my character, again. I recreate the character, take about twice as many steps into the world, and die once again. I forgot to save this time, so I once again create a new character and restart. This time I save, take a few steps out, and die. After about ten tries, I finally get to the dock with the informant I'm supposed to meet, try to shock a guard with a cattle prod, have him just stand there instead of going down, and wind up distracting me long enough for his buddy to kill me. This is the hardest freaking FPS I have ever played in my life.

For discussion value: For those of you who love Deus Ex, what exactly do you see in it? I get the feeling that I'll enjoy it if I can actually get a decent distance into the game, but so far it's at I Wanna Be the Guy levels of frustration. Did I mention that I'm playing on medium difficulty? For those of you who haven't played the game, do you have any stories of ridiculously frustrating games?

Edit: Fixed some grammatical issues in the post; nothing too major, just some misspellings and tense disagreements.
Deus Ex isn't that hard. I always play on "Realistic" difficulty and I can still beat the game without too much trouble, and I'm the sort of person who whines about getting owned constantly on a multiplayer FPS.

It's just not a linear run-and-gun game, that's all. It does require you to think carefully about objectives, and a lot of the conflicts in the game can be dealt with in multiple ways or even avoided altogether if you're clever. If on the other hand you approach the game with an "I see a potential enemy therefore it has to die before I can progress" type of attitude then the game will consistently hand you your ass until you learn not to do that.

To those saying that Deus Ex is from an earlier time when games were generally better - no it isn't. Games were mostly shit back then too, it's just that people only remember the good stuff that survives.

Anyway, you'll get there. I'm a strictly average gamer and if I can beat it you can.
 

Choppaduel

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Owyn_Merrilin said:
For those of you who love Deus Ex, what exactly do you see in it? I get the feeling that I'll enjoy it if I can actually get a decent distance into the game...
I feel unqualified to try an support the awesomeness Deus-Ex and think this question needs to be answered by someone much more eloquent(and possibly analytical)than I, but I'll do my best.

I, too, restarted the first level many times in trying to get things right,(not being seen, etc.) I did get past it eventually and got into the grove. That's when the story hits you. Next thing I knew I was completely unshaken by having to restart a large section because I'd bugger it up. All because I was compelled to continue to see where this road was taking me, no matter how challenging. By the middle I'd gotten used to the little things of the game and once I'd learnt to operate within its controls/rule/universe I started really having fun sneaking around, disarming security and clubbing guards in the back. By the end I'd loved it so much I immediately replayed it from the start and had an equivalent experience(knowing the story, but having mastered the controls and rules of the game). In short, I loved it because its fascinating, compelling, and original(to me at least) story was more than enough to get me up the steep learning curve.
 

Owyn_Merrilin

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BonsaiK said:
To those saying that Deus Ex is from an earlier time when games were generally better - no it isn't. Games were mostly shit back then too, it's just that people only remember the good stuff that survives.
Thank you for saying that. People keep arguing that games were harder when this one came out, but we're talking 2001 here, not 1981 -- or even 1995. Games had already hit their downward difficulty spiral by this point, making this one an outlier rather than the norm.
 

Lem0nade Inlay

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As most people have said, Deus Ex isn't an FPS, but instead an RPG.

To be honest with you, I played Invisible War first, and you know what? I really, truly enjoy it. I think it's great fun! Yes, it is a dumbed down version of the original, but I still love it, just as much, if not more, than the original Deus Ex.

Also, the new one, Human Revolution is coming out soon, and it looks fucking awesome.


EDIT: Here's one of the trailers for the new one.

 

Blind Sight

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Owyn_Merrilin said:
BonsaiK said:
To those saying that Deus Ex is from an earlier time when games were generally better - no it isn't. Games were mostly shit back then too, it's just that people only remember the good stuff that survives.
Thank you for saying that. People keep arguing that games were harder when this one came out, but we're talking 2001 here, not 1981 -- or even 1995. Games had already hit their downward difficulty spiral by this point, making this one an outlier rather than the norm.
Deus Ex, however, was released in what I like to call the 'Golden Age of PC gaming' (1997-2006) when developers still believed that they could turn a decent profit on good PC games. It was also a period of experimentation with game mechanics, which is why you get titles like Deus Ex and System Shock 2 trying very different ideas with first person shooters. There were some pretty bad games, no one is arguing against that, but during that point in time the PC gaming industry was in a position where they could actively try new things and develop new models of gameplay. Deus Ex isn't exactly better then games today, but it definitely tries to be something different. Thinking outside the box and creating a game based around it is far more difficult then just making a standard FPS, and I think it shines as a result.
 

Vibhor

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I couldn't bear with the game for much long time
I heard about how revolutionary it was and stuff and stuff
When I saw that the game's main emphasis was on stealth I was like Eff yeah!
But when I noticed how shitty the stealth was I got irritated.Come on,You gonna make a stealth game WITH shitty stealth system?
I got over it and played half way through
The first level was quite interesting but I always ran out of ammo for weapons too quickly in the game even though all the shots I made never missed.
I will someday give it a try again.
 

BonsaiK

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Nov 14, 2007
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Owyn_Merrilin said:
BonsaiK said:
To those saying that Deus Ex is from an earlier time when games were generally better - no it isn't. Games were mostly shit back then too, it's just that people only remember the good stuff that survives.
Thank you for saying that. People keep arguing that games were harder when this one came out, but we're talking 2001 here, not 1981 -- or even 1995. Games had already hit their downward difficulty spiral by this point, making this one an outlier rather than the norm.
A related but amusing anecdote: when the first Thief game came out, nobody into PC gaming had really seen anything like that before. I recommended the game to a friend who considered himself a master at FPS, and so he bought it. A few weeks later I saw him again, and we had the following conversation:

Me: Did you like "Thief"?
Him: No, it sucks.
Me: Why?
Him: I can't get past the start of the first level.
Me: Oh come on, it's not that hard, what's killing you?
Him: Those three guys at the front gate just own me every time.

Then it clicked - he had skipped some or all of the tutorial, went straight into the game thinking "it's an FPS, I have to go in and kill the bad guys" and so there he was just trying to rush the front door of the castle every game. It never occured to him that there might be another way. After dying a few dozen times in a row he obviously got pissed off with the game and deinstalled it. I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall while he did that...
 

BonsaiK

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Vibhor said:
The first level was quite interesting but I always ran out of ammo for weapons too quickly in the game even though all the shots I made never missed.
You're doing it wrong. No-one says you have to kill all the guards, and in fact it's probably better that you kill as few of them as possible, for reasons you'll discover if you ever decide to give the game another shot...
 

Admiral Stukov

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A) No one I know made it through the tutorial with their legs intact.

B) Deus Ex is hard, and doesn't hold your hand, but there's almost always at least one other way to do things. I myself play on the Realistic setting, a single headshot from a measly 10mm pistol wielded by a poorly trained NSF terrorist kill you instantly.

That way I force my self to carefully plan ahead, and find it immensely more satisfying once I get through a section.

Oh and in case you haven't noticed Quick Save is on NumPad +, and Quick Load on NumPad /.
Some of the keybinds are a bit off :p
 

loc978

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It's all about the mindset. Stealth. Nonlethal takedowns only. JC Denton is not Rambo, he's Batman.
 

Booze Zombie

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I love that with Deus Ex.
It's not there to hold your hands, it's not going to be kind... you've gotta work for the pearl in the oyster!

But seriously, watch some people play it on YouTube, see what it is that you're doing to make yourself die so quickly.
 

Zhukov

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Ha! I remember doing the exact same thing in the tutorial. Dropped the explosive crate, blew my legs off and got shot to hell by the bot. Had to crawl through the rest of the tutorial.

However, you can still finish it. There's a data pad with the code to lower the bridge hidden among some barrels.

As for the rest of the game, I can't see why anyone accustomed to FPS controls would have trouble with it. It's really not hard. Just sneak up behind guys and hit them with a riot prod, baton or knife. Or stick them with a tranquilliser dart and run away.

Oh, and don't forget to quicksave.
 

The Madman

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Nintendolover222 said:
I don't know if he means when you first go inside UNATCO HQ. I just tried offing Manderly, Herrmann and Navarra and none of them would die.
Minor Spoilers here:

It's possible to save the terrorist in the very first mission by killing the guards that come to 'collect' him. It's also possible to kill Navarra in the early mission where she arrives to kill Lebedev aboard that airplane. Gunther meanwhile can be killed in numerous places as well! Just a few examples.

I don't think it's possible to actually kill anyone important in the UNATCO HQ however, only during missions.