Deus Ex: Technology and style.

[Innocent Flower]

So, From a recent replaying of deus ex:human revolution and a trailer watching of it's upcoming Jensen-featuring sequel, I reinforced my opinion that all technology shown is far flashier than it needed to be, many things illogical or impractical, and that a lot of it doesn't 'fit'.

The issues here:
Huge numbers of people are largely aware of things that are 'wrong', the writers however still give people the dumbest actions to take. Also: everyone speaks their mind, and their mind is mostly on the 'big issues of augmentation'. I'm thinking the modern, liberal man can get over that debate quite quickly. It's only getting worse that the sequel's making the world all Aug-apartheid and the leader of a 'freedom fighter' group is an evil stereotype clearly only there to make matters worse. Everything is obvious.

-Augmentations are crazy complex. You've got a guy with an arm that gives both super strength and transforms into a minigun which doesn't make practical (or mechanical) sense. Then you've got the icarus landing system which is needlesly flashy and... Glasses. It's just not right. you know it's not right.

The actual plot of HR would have realistically been something more like:

Spoiler

- The Illuminati push governments for tighter augmentation control. They also buy out the research team or sink the company.
- Jensen sues David for overdoing his surgery.

But then I remember the original game. A storytelling delight. But then again i also remember it's weird prediction of 2050 technology: In the end you're Turbo-Wolverine with a chinese energy sword (and if you're not; you've failed) Fighting Augs who use few augs, Women with laser swords who explode on death, Guys with dual rocket launchers on their arms and then the occasional plasma spewing chicken.

The original was simultaneously more silly and more believable. Maybe it's entirely because everyone didn't have an opinion on one issue and a radio didn't explain everything, but on the other-hand whilst HR and seemingly MD are trying very hard to be Artsy, The original game maybe might have been too retro with it's designs. (I loved them, but it's subjective'n all.)



Anyhow: my thoughts aside, What're your opinions on the art and storytelling of the series. Did you too get annoyed with the obvious, in your face 'secrets' of HR . What kind of level should augs and robotics be at in the timeframe of the games. Do you prefer the look of HR's smooth and dark, occasionaly transformative augs or the original game's 'blue and integrated into your very flesh' kind of look. What should a deus ex game be? Were you a fan of plasma chickens?

 

[Asclepion]

The only part of Barrett's minigun augmentation that doesn't make mechanical sense is that it doesn't have any ammo feed. Otherwise, his arms are bulky and obviously artificial (his forearm is massive to fit the weapon's telescopic barrel), made of several moving parts, and the sequence where he transforms his arm into a weapon is quite clearly shown:

Looks fine to me

I also greatly prefer the look of mechanical augmentation over nano.

 

[briankoontz]

The series has a weird premise - it's based on real possible future and present-day problems, such as the global surveillance state, conspiracy theories with no evidentiary basis (grays), and a particular vision of future technology (augmentation) which is merely possible.

I don't like Tom Chick's analysis of the (original) game, and his low score is utterly ridiculous, but the core of what he was trying to do (in my opinion) in his review was to state that the game has no precise clear meaning. It's a combination of reality, speculation, and nonsense.

The "nonsense" is necessary, however, to present the confused way in which the people "living in the dark" in the Deus Ex world are mixed up in both reality and unreality. The series was partly about the way in which the powers that be manage both information and misinformation to create a populace which is only sane at a very local level. Any attempt by the populace to understand the "big picture" is doomed to fail due to lack of control over information and the nefarious agenda of those who control that information. This is reflected in the desperation and panic of modern-day conspiracy theorists.

This affects the technology as well - to stay true to the Deus Ex world it has to be a mix of real and unreal - a kind of shadowy technology. The technology itself needs to reflect the confusion of the population, not the actuality of what such technology would be.

I felt that the original game understood this postmodern aspect of itself far better than DX:HR, which had artistic trappings but was devoid of any deep understanding of the Deus Ex world.

 

[Tilly]

The series has a weird premise - it's based on real possible future and present-day problems

That'd be 90% of sci-fi you've described.

 

[nomotog_v1legacy]

HR was rather messy with it's message. It basically used Augments as a stand in for well everything. It couldn't stay consistent. DX was more consistent, but also tried to say a lot less. (There message seemed to be tinfoil works ) It looks like MD is being set up to be more focused, but I kind of doubt it will be able to have a consistent message this time.

 

[Ihateregistering1]

I like the look of the augmentations in the game, because they're basically "effective but ugly", which is what you'd expect from first generation augmentations.

As for the science and realism of it: it's a video game, I don't really care that much.

As for the story, I'll admit it did seem a little odd that there would be this 'anti-augmentation' movement that would be so strong (you don't see much of a modern day "anti-organ transplant" movement), but then I gave it a little thought and realized it's similar to the debate over the ability of the rich to genetically engineer children (which we're really not too far from). The idea that the rich could afford to make their kids faster, stronger, better looking, have basically zero risk of being born with down syndrome or birth defects, and immune to large amounts of diseases later in life, would rub a LOT of people the wrong way. In a way, the augmentations were similar to that: the rich could now afford to quite literally make themselves better than the rest of humanity.

Probably the biggest thing that irks me about Mankind Divided (though obviously this is only based on the trailer) is that the plot seems to be based around the idea that you chose the "Humanity Front" ending in the game which:

Spoiler

Lead everyone to believe that Augmentations were to blame and were ultra dangerous. The problem with this is that I played my character specifically being very pro-augmentation, and I chose the Sarif ending (where they blame everything on Humanity Front). Now it seems like they've decided that it doesn't matter how you wanted Jensen to be in the first game, we're making the decision for you.

 

[Innocent Flower]

The only part of Barrett's minigun augmentation that doesn't make mechanical sense is that it doesn't have any ammo feed. Otherwise, his arms are bulky and obviously artificial (his forearm is massive to fit the weapon's telescopic barrel), made of several moving parts, and the sequence where he transforms his arm into a weapon is quite clearly shown:

I also greatly prefer the look of mechanical augmentation over nano.

The original game had mechanical augs, though the augs looked very different. Maybe they were to look a little gross. Important point: The original game had a lot less room to make Good models and textures. A fair bit of judging them is "is that just bulging out of the skin or has it entirely popped out"

 

[DementedSheep]

I like the look of the augmentations in the game, because they're basically "effective but ugly", which is what you'd expect from first generation augmentations.

As for the science and realism of it: it's a video game, I don't really care that much.

As for the story, I'll admit it did seem a little odd that there would be this 'anti-augmentation' movement that would be so strong (you don't see much of a modern day "anti-organ transplant" movement), but then I gave it a little thought and realized it's similar to the debate over the ability of the rich to genetically engineer children (which we're really not too far from). The idea that the rich could afford to make their kids faster, stronger, better looking, have basically zero risk of being born with down syndrome or birth defects, and immune to large amounts of diseases later in life, would rub a LOT of people the wrong way. In a way, the augmentations were similar to that: the rich could now afford to quite literally make themselves better than the rest of humanity.

Probably the biggest thing that irks me about Mankind Divided (though obviously this is only based on the trailer) is that the plot seems to be based around the idea that you chose the "Humanity Front" ending in the game which:

Spoiler

Lead everyone to believe that Augmentations were to blame and were ultra dangerous. The problem with this is that I played my character specifically being very pro-augmentation, and I chose the Sarif ending (where they blame everything on Humanity Front). Now it seems like they've decided that it doesn't matter how you wanted Jensen to be in the first game, we're making the decision for you.

I don't think anyone but most extreme would be against artificial organs and limbs for people that actually need them. It is, as you say more of rich vs poor thing. Even now starting for a rich background is a huge advantage. Add augmentation in the mix where they can pay to make themselves stronger, faster, smarter, able to create pheromones to influences others behaviour and pick on chemical signals to tell what others are thinking and feeling and it's outright impossible to compete. Widespread augmentation would only increase the divide between rich and poor and make impossible to every really pull yourself out of a poverty trap. It is also puts a ridicules amount of power in the hands of the companies making the augs and the drugs necessary to sustain them. You need augmentation to compete and get anywhere but if you get any you are locked into buying a drug for the rest of your life. You have no choice but to keep on buying it no matter how much they charge or what condition they put on it's purchase. Then there is potential for ethical issues and abuse from employers requiring employees to get certain augs and abuse with augs themselves (one of the examples being the ex mercenary you meet who found out that his decisions were influenced without his knowledge and then having his memory wiped afterwards). There are a lot of reason to be very very wary of augmentation in Dues Ex: HR universe even if you are for augmentation as a concept.

 

[briankoontz]

Probably the biggest thing that irks me about Mankind Divided (though obviously this is only based on the trailer) is that the plot seems to be based around the idea that you chose the "Humanity Front" ending in the game which:

Spoiler

Lead everyone to believe that Augmentations were to blame and were ultra dangerous. The problem with this is that I played my character specifically being very pro-augmentation, and I chose the Sarif ending (where they blame everything on Humanity Front). Now it seems like they've decided that it doesn't matter how you wanted Jensen to be in the first game, we're making the decision for you.

I don't think anyone but most extreme would be against artificial organs and limbs for people that actually need them. It is, as you say more of rich vs poor thing. Even now starting for a rich background is a huge advantage. Add augmentation in the mix where they can pay to make themselves stronger, faster, smarter, able to create pheromones to influences others behaviour and pick on chemical signals to tell what others are thinking and feeling and it's outright impossible to compete. Widespread augmentation would only increase the divide between rich and poor and make impossible to every really pull yourself out of a poverty trap. It is also puts a ridicules amount of power in the hands of the companies making the augs and the drugs necessary to sustain them. You need augmentation to compete and get anywhere but if you get any you are locked into buying a drug for the rest of your life. You have no choice but to keep on buying it no matter how much they charge or what condition they put on it's purchase. Then there is potential for ethical issues and abuse from employers requiring employees to get certain augs and abuse with augs themselves (one of the examples being the ex mercenary you meet who found out that his decisions were influenced without his knowledge and then having his memory wiped afterwards). There are a lot of reason to be very very wary of augmentation in Dues Ex: HR universe even if you are for augmentation as a concept.

The basic understanding of Deus Ex is that in a dying world where humanity has no future, there's no point in limiting the power and reach of corporations nor for further exploring the possibilities of humanity. Thus - "post-human". In this dying world there's no longer a point to "not leaving behind" the masses - humans no longer have value, while wealth continues to have value insofar as it increases the lifespan of the wealthy within the dying society and possibly enables the "technological miracle" of escaping the earth or transforming it into something which will sustain a sparse society.

So while your points about "ethical issues" are somewhat reasonable for the present of Deus Ex (even in the first game in 2052), as there's still something of a functioning economy and there's a difference between a dying society and a dead one, the future is weighing down very heavily on the entire society, rich and poor alike. This oppressive future, one of human extinction, is what's defining the world, shaping human emotions, attitudes, and directing their actions.

The purpose of ethics, the real purpose, is to improve society, to make humans living together happier and healthier. My point here is to say that when there's a self-consciously dying society, when society itself gives up on the human project, on ethics, on becoming happier and healthier by reason of accepting the approaching human extinction (or an unwillingness to accept the project of the wealthy to leave everyone else behind), "ethical issues" become irrelevant.

Bear in mind that the first Deus Ex game is canon in the Deus Ex universe. So we already know how that world will be in 2052. In the intervening years between DX:HR and DX no solution is applied to the dying world, except for the "technological miracle" of "becoming illuminated" by integrating human consciousness with computers, with the apparent end-goal of pacifying humanity while they die and subsequently maximizing the possibility of further technological miracles to continue to extend the lifespan of the most powerful people.

It's a choice devoid of drama or tension to make a Deus Ex game set in the years between 2027 and 2052 about ethical issues surrounding augmentation, since we know how things turn out - the problem of approaching human extinction is not solved and therefore there's no motive to limiting corporate power nor any purpose to ethics. And only the second coming of Jesus Christ (err... "J.C." Denton) alleviates the IMMEDIATE problem of the antics of Bob Page. No deeper solution is found. Humanity is still living in a doomed post-human reality.

 

[Rayce Archer]

The visual design of the game is just added language to show the division between directions for humanity. Those opposed to augmentation have an aesthetic in their clothing, buildings, etc that looks current, while Seraph's GQ and the augs on many civilians have a sort of baroque, renaissance feel. This notion of visual language is new to Human Revolution, which is why the mechanical augs in DX1 don't have it, but the concept art for Gunther clearly shows him with bulging, mechanical parts instead of the smooth metal limbs the model quality forced him to have.

I agree that it's a little over the top- Why does Jensen have ARM SWORDS and not just an arm tazer?- but that's just sci fi creative license to emphasize the issues of the game and the contrast between augmented and unaugmented humans, and to make it more fun in video game terms. And I like the look of the design even if it doesn't seem to be how the real future is shaping up.

 

[BarryMcCociner]

I don't think the leader of the pro-aug group looks like an evil stereotype in the least. I think he's kind of a of anti-villain. Like The Illusive Man (in ME2 at least) or Letho of Gulet (Letho did nothing wrong except getting ploughed by Nilfgaard).

Your main issue seems to be an inability to suspend disbelief. There's a difference between picking out plotholes and saying they don't make sense, or picking out stylized and overcool technology and saying that isn't right.

Besides, what's that quote? "Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced."

Your takedown of this kind of stuff seems incredibly "Welcome to Fiction: No Surrealism Allowed" which is absolutely absurd. More often than not, fiction is better served by throwing the limitations of our world out the window. That shouldn't be an issue because it's fiction we get away with that 'round these parts.

Imagine Star Wars without the force, or faster than light travel, or a giant laser that blows up planets. Imagine Mass Effect without giant space cuttlefish robots that can shut down for fifty thousand years, wake up to go to war then go back to sleep without any need for maintenance ever. These are all things that we KNOW can't be done in our real world but that doesn't get in the way of somebody losing themselves in a story.

 

[mad825]

The actual plot of HR would have realistically been something more like:

Spoiler

- The Illuminati push governments for tighter augmentation control. They also buy out the research team or sink the company.
- Jensen sues David for overdoing his surgery.

....The government is the Illuminati, all they needed was public support. In some respects, they are also MJ12.

 

[Itchi_da_killa]

DE:HR is such a great piece of art. (You should be able to stealth the bosses though)

Much of the artistic design referenced the Bee, and the hive. Some sociological theorist that entertain thoughts on our societal evolution, favor the idea that we will become more like Bees, and develop a hive-like mentality as our population grows and ages. We are already developing some hive-like behaviors, and complete socialism "seems" to be looming in our not too distant future.

Sure the technology is over done, but it is a video game after all. It is supposed to be "fantastic". I play video games for the fantasy. Cerebral Sci Fi fantasy is by far my favorite genre of movies, games, what-ever.

The story isn't supposed to be taken too seriously. It is there simply to stimulate your brain; to be aware of uncertainty, to be curious, and explore. Its an added bonus if the game influences you to ponder and discuss the parallels between the game's setting and the political climate, and social issues in our world.

I feel DE:HR is far better than the first one. I started out on the first one, and played it to death.