Diablo III Expansion Confirmed For PS4, Will be Playable at Blizzcon

[black_knight1337]

And yes the same goes for wolf howl if the bonus effect is +3-6 werewolf then that is a constant passive buff to a otherwise locked and zero sum skill. The tool tip simply describes how that buff is used but it is still passive because the +3-6 to werewolf DOES NOT NEED TO BE ACTIVATED it remains passively on so long as the equipment remains on. you can frame it a hundred different ways all of them are wrong.

So, like I said before, by your definition of "active" skills on items, they don't exist at all. By your definition an item that has a tooltip reading something along the lines of "Allows the user to use X at will" (Where X is some skill) is just a passive because it permanently (At least while it's equipped) unlocks a skill for you to use. See how stupid that definition sounds?

Also, let me explain a little to you about the design behind that affix, which should be clear to you with how much you claim to know about game design. There are 3 reasons why the tooltip is "+3-6 Werewolf" rather than "Allows the user to become a werewolf at will". The first is a programming thing, it's much easier to use existing infrastructure rather than making it from scratch. The other two are design related, the first being that it makes it easy for the user to recognise that it is the same werewolf skill that is available to the druid. The second being that it makes it clear that it can be buffed by regular "+x to werewolf" affixes. That's all about creating a better experience for the player, there's no difference mechanically, but it makes it more intuitive.

 

[black_knight1337]

yes the designers decided to use the benefits of a passive skill to give the benefits of a new ability rather then program active abilities into the game. Its a neat work around but they sill did it using passive skills. And by my definition plenty of other games have active skills just not the diablo franchise.

And that's how active skills on items were implemented in Diablo 2. "+x to y skill" or "Allows the user to cast a fireball" or even Dota's "right click this item to cast a fireball" are just different implementations of the same concept which is "Allow the player to use a skill they wouldn't normally be able to". The only difference between these is how the player uses them, whether that be directly clicking the item or being able to bound it to a button, and how they interpret it, knowing whether or not it would be buffed by other items. So you're not arguing the mechanics, or the design behind them, but rather the way in which it gets incorporated into the UI. Try to apply the Dota method to Diablo, it becomes a chore to use, or the Diablo method to Dota, it just adds extra clutter to the UI. See, each game implements the idea in a different way which suits the style of game it is. There's nothing that says you have to copy another games implementation of a concept if you want to add it to your own game. That, is what poor game design is. Finding a way to smoothly integrate the concept into your game. That, is good game design.

It's nice you ignored my list of games that have that such skills.

Because I have no experience with League of Legends (although the above Dota bit would probably be somewhat relatable), little experience with World of Warcraft and Skyrim is on consoles as well as PC, which kinda kills your argument.

Just because it wasn't in a previous game doesn't mean they couldn't add it in as a new skill type for the expansion the expansion to diablo 2 introduced plenty of new game elements. I know 3 just likes to stream line and iterate but they could have go for something interesting.

So you're saying your argument is just bs then? I mean the whole 'They can't implement active skills on items because consoles' thing. Because like I said (And you just said), there's no reason why they couldn't do it.

 

[black_knight1337]

They COULD implement it but they won't because it's clunky if they're thinking console first its not impossible but it's a poor choice for a console focused game. Skyrim has a completely different UI and pacing compared to Diablo 3 and it's still far clunkier to do on skyrim with a controller then with keyboard but skyrim and elder scrolls in general is still heavily PC minded and even then most people use the UI mod to fix some of the concessions the had to make for the UI to be even remotely compatible with a controller.

Except Skyrim's lead platform was the 360, hence why the UI is the way it is. Of course it's generally accepted it is better on PC thanks to mods but that doesn't change what it was built for. If PC was the lead for it, then we would've had all the modding tools available from Day one. And you're idea of active skills on items (of having to click the item rather than a shortcut) wouldn't just be clunky on consoles, it would be clunky on pc. Not to mention how much it opens up human error. Couldn't be much worse if you're in hardcore fighting against some elites then you pop open your inventory to activate a skill but instead you misclick and end up swapping one of your items so your survivability drops and you are promptly killed. Or hell, you could even end up dropping that godly amulet you found for it to promptly be stolen by another player.

Active skills aren't skills that give you abilities they are skills you ACTIVATE and generally function like abilities.

I know, the "skills that give you abilities" would be like "On Kill: A chance to summon a skeleton". The "skills you activate and generally function like abilities" are things like Wolfhowl letting you turn into a werewolf when you activate it.

So just because an item can grant an ability doesn't make it an active item skill or affix. Simple question to figure it out do you have to do anything to get +1 to teleport? No then it is a passive skill. The item grants a +1 passive boost to teleport and that is it the character then gains the skill from the inherent buff.

It's not that the item can grant an ability, it's that it does grant an ability. That can be applied to something like a "Staff of firebolts" from Dota that would have on it something along the lines of "Use this item to cast a firebolt". You can just say "do you have to do anything to be able to get the ability to use the firebolt?" and the answer is obviously no. That doesn't mean it isn't an active skill on an item though.

 

[black_knight1337]

You really should look up for that point its a nice one. Short cutting the ability is exactly what I said yo had to do with active skills. On many games you short cut the ability from the item hence needing to click on it to bind it to a shortcut. You just generally wouldn't want to bind it to your main abilities. for example in skyrim the item active abilities I find useful are generally on my quick bar on a 7 or 8.

Which is what you do with things like Wolfhowl in Diablo 2. You bind the skills from it to one of your function keys or directly to the mouse.

As for your dota example the question isn't do you have to do anything to get the ability to use fireball?" the ability says "Use this item to CAST A FIREBOLT" the question is do you have to do anything to CAST A FIREBOLT. The answer is yes because that is an active ability. It's about time you actually mentioned one.

And yet you are doing the former to the Diablo 2 implementation. You're using the argument that you don't have to do anything to BE ABLE to turn into a werewolf. So, like above, you apply that to Dota and you don't have to do anything to BE ABLE to use the staff of firebolts. If you then go the other way, do you have to do anything to USE the firebolt ability? Yes. Do you have to do anything to USE the werewolf ability? Yes. Thus they are just different implementations of the same thing.

Can we go back to your original argument now? Arguing the implementation of active skills on items isn't going anywhere for either of us. So going back to that which was that the console version is "screwing" the PC version with the only example being provided that Diablo 3 can't have active skills on items because of the existence of the console version. To which I'd go back to a point you made, in that Skyrim includes your definition of active skills. How can Skyrim include active skills when they're too clunky for consoles? And that makes it even less sense when Skyrim was designed with a console being the lead platform (hence why we have that UI which is barely functional on PC).

And I'd also go back to the point I made earlier saying that there isn't any real reason why the current UI couldn't have a couple of minor tweaks to be adapted to it. It would be as simple as adding a new skill category called 'gear' and just have it set up the same as the others but with dynamic icons showing what skills are available from your gear. Then just have them bound to one of the five unrestricted skill slots. And don't go and say you wouldn't want them taking place of main skills because that is just a cop-out for poor design. They should be powerful enough to be a viable choice for your build.

 

[black_knight1337]

Really your comparing skyrim which uses a rotary analogue quick select to switch between skills and comparing it to diablo which has limited skill slots each bound to separate buttons that are unswitchable and you think your making a legitimate point about controller limitations by saying if one works why can't the other?

You do realise you were the one that brought up the Skyrim comparison right?

Also wofhowl passively grants the prerequisites to use a skill it does not grant the skill directly if a game had skills based on stats you wouldn't say +5 str is an actives skill.

I shouldn't even have to explain how stupid that comparison is. Wolfhowl's "+3-6 to werewolf" is the same as "Allows the user to transform into a werewolf" or "On use: Transform into a werewolf". There is no difference beyond what the tooltip says. In all of those cases (using charges implementation to verify) the skill that is being granted gets put with the rest of your skills for you to bound to a function key, or a mouse button. And that's the last I'm touching of that line, if you can't understand that then there isn't much point continuing it. I guess you don't know so much about design as you think you do.

I mean you think diablo 3 is actually good should have been a red flag there.

Making a presumption but yes, I do think that Diablo 3 is a good game and with the upcoming changes it could even exceed the legend known as Diablo 2: Lord of Destruction. I know it has it's issues (skill balancing, average at best itemisation) but it is otherwise pretty solid. Most of the rest is purely subjective (sound, art) but there is at least one thing that can't be denied. And that is it's unmatched combat. Seriously, it feels that good that it's actually gone and hurt my enjoyment of other games in the genre because they feel so slow and sluggish in comparison.

And continue to ignore arguments I make that refute your points, or rather point (A whole argument with a single point? Surely you can do better than that). But as you said "they say ignorance is bliss so who am I to take away someones happiness".