Diablo III: The best F2P game never made.

[Gethsemani_v1legacy]

Here is the problem with that.

People always say "well if I want to be with people on their LvL I need to buy"

No! you are an idiot!
Every piece of gear on the AH will have dropped for someone. That means even without damm AH it would still be there. There is no gear you hadn't have to deal with already.

They dont sell gear you can only by there! get it through your friggan skull. Its not pay to win.

You had to deal with the guy in better gear in D2 as well. You cannot expect balanced PvP in Diablo if gear = skill, because gear is rewarded randomly. It is a baseless whine.

Here's the problem with your reasoning (and thank you for implying I am an idiot, by the way):

While all equipment will have dropped for someone it is very likely that all of it won't have dropped for the same person, unless said person poured hundreds or thousands of hours into grinding for the equipment. But if I find an epic helmet and put for sale, you find an awesome armor and put for sale and so on, and all these pieces of rare, powerful and expensive gear is bought by the same person then they are literarlly paying to bypass the grinding process.

So now this guy is down several hundred dollars and has just barely played enough to get to the level needed for all his equipment. He goes out to PvP and faces a guy who has poured hundreds of hours into grinding but can't afford to buy awesome gear. One of the two will stand a far greater chance of coming out on top, not because of luck or skill but because he can literarlly pay to get the upper hand.

The thing about random loot dropping "upsetting" the PvP-scene is that it hits everyone equally, whereas a RMAH favors those that can lay down lots of money to bolster their in-game efforts. If you can't see the difference between the two then there's not much I can do to convince you otherwise. It is not a baseless whine however since many games that are competitive contains a degree of chance (exceptions would be chess and StarCraft) but still put emphasis on skill and experience. In a game so centered on equipment boosting your abilities, the opportunity to fork out real money for better equipment will most likely greatly upset any potential PvP-scane

 

[Sixcess]

My question is how much would other gamers feel the same as I do? Just because it would be the dreaded free-to-play won't make it a shit game. Blizz is supposed to be better than that. I just see this potentially high revenue generating feature that could make more money on good will than just pocket gouging.

I have no dislike of F2P done well - several of the MMOs I play have transitioned to F2P and it hasn't ruined them at all. The idea that F2P = bad game is outdated and goes back to when the model was used solely by grindtastic Korean MMOs that forced you to pay because progression at other than than a snail's pace was near impossible otherwise.

In the case of Fallen Earth in particular, going F2P was forced upon them as it was either that or shutdown. I wouldn't wish that on any game.

My original post then, was very informed by what I've seen in the MMO community over the last couple of years, that is people who want to play a game but they'll "wait until it is F2P." I've seen that said about SWTOR right here on the Escapist many times and it irritates me, as it is essentially saying "I want to play this game but I want it to start failing first." If you want to support a game then pay up and support it now - don't circle around it like a vulture waiting for it to fall, so you can perhaps throw a little money at it then.

If I was handed the game for free by Blizzard, I'd be more willing to spend, because Blizz gave me the game in good faith that I'd return some profits to them. And I would too, because a job well done deserves rewarding.

Which is pretty much the approach I take to my MMOs - if they are good games I will spend money on them. My point was that Blizzard do not have to rely on good will - people will queue up to play Diablo III regardless of the RMAH. I'm not saying that's a good thing. Personally I think the RMAH could set a very bad precedent as gaming payment models continue to evolve.

 

[shintakie10]

Here is the problem with that.

People always say "well if I want to be with people on their LvL I need to buy"

No! you are an idiot!
Every piece of gear on the AH will have dropped for someone. That means even without damm AH it would still be there. There is no gear you hadn't have to deal with already.

They dont sell gear you can only by there! get it through your friggan skull. Its not pay to win.

You had to deal with the guy in better gear in D2 as well. You cannot expect balanced PvP in Diablo if gear = skill, because gear is rewarded randomly. It is a baseless whine.

Here's the problem with your reasoning (and thank you for implying I am an idiot, by the way):

While all equipment will have dropped for someone it is very likely that all of it won't have dropped for the same person, unless said person poured hundreds or thousands of hours into grinding for the equipment. But if I find an epic helmet and put for sale, you find an awesome armor and put for sale and so on, and all these pieces of rare, powerful and expensive gear is bought by the same person then they are literarlly paying to bypass the grinding process.

So now this guy is down several hundred dollars and has just barely played enough to get to the level needed for all his equipment. He goes out to PvP and faces a guy who has poured hundreds of hours into grinding but can't afford to buy awesome gear. One of the two will stand a far greater chance of coming out on top, not because of luck or skill but because he can literarlly pay to get the upper hand.

The thing about random loot dropping "upsetting" the PvP-scene is that it hits everyone equally, whereas a RMAH favors those that can lay down lots of money to bolster their in-game efforts. If you can't see the difference between the two then there's not much I can do to convince you otherwise. It is not a baseless whine however since many games that are competitive contains a degree of chance (exceptions would be chess and StarCraft) but still put emphasis on skill and experience. In a game so centered on equipment boosting your abilities, the opportunity to fork out real money for better equipment will most likely greatly upset any potential PvP-scane

Your argument falls flat on its face when you realize this same scenario happened in D2 all the time. If the RMAH wasn't in D3 you'd have people with money to burn goin to third party sites to buy gear (and run the risk of bein scammed) and overpower you anyway. Heck, you could buy entire characters with all the gear ready and equipped on ebay for D2.

 

[Signa]

My original post then, was very informed by what I've seen in the MMO community over the last couple of years, that is people who want to play a game but they'll "wait until it is F2P." I've seen that said about SWTOR right here on the Escapist many times and it irritates me, as it is essentially saying "I want to play this game but I want it to start failing first." If you want to support a game then pay up and support it now - don't circle around it like a vulture waiting for it to fall, so you can perhaps throw a little money at it then.

Ah, that's the part I misunderstood. I didn't create this thread suggesting that Diablo 3 goes F2P, but is just simply designed to be one and released as such. As I said in my last post, it has a pricing model that would support the game without the initial sale of the game.

I remember I brought such thoughts out when TF2 brought out the Mann store. Lo and behold, the game went F2P only a few months after. In that case though, part of my argument was that TF2 was already owned by everyone who was going to own it. I had nearly 50 people on my friends list and about 45 of them owned the game. One difference though with TF2 and D3 is that the RMAH is something that can be used frequently and repeatedly by just one character. If you bought out the Mann store, you'd have to wait for the next update to even have a chance to give Valve more money. In a good F2P game, I'd prefer D3's flavor because it allows players as well as Blizzard to make money continually. I think Blizz is sitting on a gold mine but is killing the golden goose instead.

 

[Brotherofwill]

Okay I get the common complaints, but Torchlight 2? Really?

I liked Torchlight, but it got old after a week. It's fun and quick but lacks personality or any lasting appeal. The only reason you can preorder TL 2 right now is because they know D3 is coming, they don't even have a release date.

Now to D3. Your idea is interesting and might happen in a few years down to road. I'm a huge D2 fan and what I've seen so far of number 3 has been mixed. My friend played it and said it was rewarding but lacked character customization and I value his opinion, so it will likely not be as deep as the second, which I haven't grown tired of in like a decade. I also made a thread about the stupid design decisions here:http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.240386-Diablows-3#14103631

 

[Gethsemani_v1legacy]

only if they sell it you dimwit!

Jesus!

You have to deal with the same gear with or without the AH.
Because without the AH this gear wont be in rotation.... oh wait yes it will!
It does what it has always done. Favors the lucky!
The guy who gets the better drops gets the advantage. Thats the way it has always been. You cant come with money from the outside and just go buy shit on the AH that people didn't put there.

Grinding for a 100 hours is still not an assurance you will get the item you want, while other can get it at the first try!
Dont try to pawn it off as if this is a direct measurement of skill because it its not. It pure chance. Dont friggan tell me that you need buy gear to be competitive when gear can only be obtained through grinding. It doesn't matter if he paid for it or if it dropped for him because it had to drop for someone for it to exist, and you had to deal with it one way or another. There is no measurement of skill involved. Only chance.

You cannot have a fair fight when gear isn't divided equally. We cant play the same amount of time and be equally well gear. We have the same CHANCE to get the same loot, but that doesn't give us the same loot. That is the whole point of RANDOM. So get over your idea of PvP balancing PvP in a game where that goes against everything the game is. RMAH is a none issue. It will only affect your game if you use it.

First of all, I'd appreciate if you'd stop insulting me. Becuase honestly, your argument basically boils down to "some will be luckier then others", which strictly speaking is true on an individual basis but over large populations we'll still see a certain percent of drops for all items (due to how randomization generators are set up it all ends up in pure statistics). What the RMAH boils down to is basically a way to off-set the potential for poor drops over extended periods of time by exchanging real money for the in-game objects you want (and that are up for sale).

For example, imagine a "set" as seen in D2 consisting of five equipment pieces. The chance that they'd all drop for one player is so small as to be considered almost non-existant unless said player poured thousands of hours into grinding. However, on a player base of millions of players, all these items will drop thousands of times. Some will inevitably decide to get money from their dropped items, for any number of reasons, and try to sell them off. This means that the player with the cash to spare but without the inclination to grind hundreds of hours can instead purchase whatever set pieces that player is missing.

This means that players with more money to spare (for whatever reason) can buy themselves an extra advantage over those that can't. It might not matter much in casual play, but for the PvP scene (and if you ever played D2 online, you'd know it was pretty big there despite not being a "core" feature) and those that enjoy tackling endgame areas on high difficulties, you are running the very real risk of players finding it a must to pour in additional money into their game if they want to get "the most" out of it.

In simple terms: D3 currently faces the possibility that people will have to keep paying after buying the game if they want to access high-end content or that some will be able to buy an advantage over others because of their better economical status.. This can't be compared to the D2 situation of 3rd party sales, because in this case the developers themselves will be condoning it. I am not saing this will be the case, but that there's a risk that it will happen.

 

[Crazy Zaul]

Wait...WHAT?????
D3 has subscription? WTF? But it's not an MMO!
How did I not know this!

Definitely not buying it now.

Nevermind, I was right there is no subscription, so what the hell is everyone talking about, it is F2P?

 

[freakonaleash]

I would really like to know why everyone is so morally opposed to the RMAH when you are not being forced to use it. Don't like it? Fine, don't use it.

 

[Greg Waller]

Pre-ordered, pre-loaded and counting the minutes to release. A few thoughts though:

1) No RMAH for HC.
2) Always online is a good thing. Keeps posers like you from ruining the game community.
3) Go play Torchlight if you're so economically oppressed that you can't play a real game.

For everyone else, see you on battle.net!

 

[elvor0]

Everyone bitching about the real money auction house obviously never played D2 or was just utterly ignorant of the black market that existed around it. People would always buy gear and characters for real money in D2, just it was done through dodgy 3rd party sites that could very well rip you off, or cloned the items making them illegitimate, the RMAH just cuts out the dodgy sites and makes sure people who want to buy stuff, do it in a safe environment without fear of getting ripped off.

The same people buying stuff for real cash would do it regardless of if there was a RMAH in the game.

 

[nu1mlock]

I had to finally register only to be able to reply to this thread. People are making accusations based on rumors and lies.

You don't have to use the RMAH if you don't want to. Diablo 3 is not Pay to Win. Blizzard has officially said that PvP will have a matchmaking system that matches you against people with EQUAL gear, which means that you won't be playing against someone that has paid for better equipment.

If you, however, have looted awesome equipment you might go against someone that has bought it. But only if his/her equipment is equal to yours.

So, RMAH is great for two reasons:

1. People won't get scammed by using weird 3rd party sites (unless they use them anyway).
2. You might make a few bucks if you're lucky enough to sell some.

Sure, Blizzard gets a cut, but who cares? PayPal also take a cut if you sell something using them. Same with Ebay etc. No big deal.

Regarding the "always-on" DRM, that's something I could live without if playing solo. However, I will most probably not. I tend to think it's more fun to play with friends than alone, which means I'll be connected anyway. And if my connection would go down (for some weird reason, only happened once last 8 years), well, I wouldn't be able to play ANY game with them anyway.

But sure, if you want to play all alone on a flight or have a bad connection, that sucks.

Bottom line;
Don't hate on the game because of the RMAH because it doesn't make the game Pay to Win, you'll go against people with equal equipment on PvP anyway.

 

[Gethsemani_v1legacy]

Really get this point.
The RMAH will only have an effect on those who use it. For everyone else. It is the same gear we deal with as if it wasn't there. it is the same people we deal with if it wasn't there. Our chances in PvP are just as bad as they were before because there will be the same amount of "sword of awsome" to stab us as there were before. That is held by a noob who bought it rather than held by the lucky guy who found it doesn't change your chances.

That is a ridiculous point.

1) The RMAH will affect anyone who tries to play organized multiplayer in some way, because others you play with will be using it. It won't affect people who only play singleplayer, but that's pretty much where it end.

2) It is the concentration of high-end items into the hands of those with the most fiscal means that is the entire problem, because they can spend money to bypass the grind an effectively have others "grind for them". Someone that doesn't use the RMAH is unlikely to ever get the full "Set of Epic", whereas someone with a fat wallet and access to the RMAH can get it in five minutes. This is not even a point to be contested, because it is logical enough.

3) In a game that constantly spawns in new items every time you play, the actual number of any one item is technically infinite. This is especially true when you look to the entire population of players over an indefinite amount of time. Sure, in a segment of the population during a limited time you'll only see x number of item y but the number will increase as population and time does.

Either way, you seem unable to comprehend basic statistics and supply-demand economics so there's no further point discussing this with you.

Everyone bitching about the real money auction house obviously never played D2 or was just utterly ignorant of the black market that existed around it. People would always buy gear and characters for real money in D2, just it was done through dodgy 3rd party sites that could very well rip you off, or cloned the items making them illegitimate, the RMAH just cuts out the dodgy sites and makes sure people who want to buy stuff, do it in a safe environment without fear of getting ripped off.

The same people buying stuff for real cash would do it regardless of if there was a RMAH in the game.

I remember it. But the alternative to making it an integrated part of the game would be to make it harder to use 3rd party sources (compare WoW Goldselling) and not have any real money involved at all. I am simply of the opinion that Blizzard made a bad choice here (but probably very lucrative for them).

 

[Darkmantle]

Personally, when I get D3, I am going to be overcharging people on the RMAH until I get my money back. Just sayin.

I actually like the idea. It's not Pay2win, as all the gear is available by drop, and had to be OBTAINED through drops. I could understand the anger if Blizz was posting the auction using an item spawner, but it's other players selling their drops.