Discuss and Rate the Last Thing You Watched (non-movies)

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thebobmaster

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Just watched the Doctor Who Season 2 finale. I...what? Huh? After all that, THAT'S how you end? And Ncuti gets only two shorter seasons, and regenerates into Billie Piper of all people?

I legitimately think RTD may be a bit unhinged, and not necessarily in a good way.
 

Samos205

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I legitimately think RTD may be a bit unhinged, and not necessarily in a good way.
I know right. I'd been seeing the rumours and I was thinking "there's no way. It's too stupid of an Idea" and yet here we are. I was expecting him to stick around for the christmas special, then regenerate, but i guess he wanted to jump ship before it fully sunk.

Doctor Who Season 2, Episode 7
The Reality War
The episode in general was a bit of a let down, but I wasn't that surprised. My expectations were low, and they were meet.
Omega, the big bad villain had maybe ten minutes of screen time before he was unceremoniously vanquished back to the Underverse, which we never get to really see beyond the end of the last episode. He was around long enough to conveniently kill of the dominant Rani with no fanfare, while the submissive Rani grabs her teleporter macguffin and flees. I'm sure she'll be back in a later season, possibly after regenerating off-screen.
The only thing the Rani really does this episode, and last one too really, was to serve as an exposition machine. Something about time lords being sterile, which tied to into the subplot that might as well have been the main plot given how much time the show spent on it.
I did not care for the Poppy sub-plot. I just could not care about Belinda and her child, that may or may not have actually been hers.
The one good thing about the episode was that I'm fairly certain it retconned the timeless child nonsense. Will need to rewatch to reconfirm though.
And then he regenerates. Into Billie Piper, of all people.
20231209_215818.jpg
This was supposed to be a meme, RTD.
This would've been the perfect episode to bring back Tennant for a cameo too. Two big bad villains with time-lord connections. It's the perfect excuse to bring back the other doctor. What was he even doing this episode, just chilling in his backyard?

Oh and we have yet another loose thread that still has yet to be tied. Who is "The Boss"? It was mentioned by the meep at the end of the first anniversary that "the Boss is coming", then Anita mentioned him again at the end of this episode. I don't think you have the time to play with some long overarching mystery, RTD.
And who took the toymaker's golden tooth containing the master? Still yet to be resolved.
 

Bartholen

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Since Sinners got me on a bit of a kick, I've gone back and been rewatching Midnight Mass on Netflix. And hoo boy was I wrong about this series. It's not an 8/10, it's among the best things Netflix have ever produced, 10/10 easily. I think it needs a second watch to truly see it for the unquestionable masterpiece that it is. There is so much foreshadowing, thematic depth and double meaning to be found. You realize things that surprised you on the first watch were being built up to from the word go. This has some of the best acting of all time in anything ever, period. It's hard to pick a best among such towering performances like Father Paul, Sheriff Hassan or Bev Keane. The insanely long single-take dialogues and monologues are just incredible. Riley's story, when you know where it's going, is beyond heartbreaking.

Truly an astonishing series.
 

Phoenixmgs

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The Rehearsal season 2

Your resident Nathan Fielder fanboy is here to report that after a wonderful takeoff, the second season sticks the landing better than I could have hoped.

WAKE ME UP INSIDE

The last scene haunted me. The big reveal of the last episode was one of the all-time great TV history moments. Fielder is an insane genius.
I just watched season 2 over the weekend and it was pretty good. It definitely wasn't as interesting as the 1st season but the probably overall better. I started watching Nathan For You and that show is fucking hilarious. I didn't realize he made a fake pig video that legit went viral across the world like 12 years ago.

He was on CNN about this season of The Rehearsal and said the FAA is dumb.
 

Old_Hunter_77

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He was on CNN about this season of The Rehearsal and said the FAA is dumb.
hahah yeah of course I got sent this clip over the wknd 'cause everyone know I'm Fielderfan#1. Wolf Blitzer just downplaying any attempt to acknowledge that he's probably the boss of their show lol
 
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Bartholen

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I feel the fifth episode of Midnight Mass warrants its own mention.
That ending is one of the most amazing pieces of TV I've ever seen. It's an ingenious and twisted take on a redemption story, and watching it on a second run you see so many of the signs you don't on the first. Throughout the season Riley is put forward as pretty much the main character, who seems to have an obvious arc in front of him: reclaiming the pieces of his life, reigniting an old flame, and maybe finding new community with the church. But it's all a misdirect: Riley isn't just depressed and traumatized, he's genuinely suicidal. What you initially think is the aimlessness and quiet frustration of a man lost in life is actually the last flashes of the hope of a man who's past the despair event horizon. His non-romance with Erin isn't him discovering a new purpose, it's basically a man reading his own eulogy. He doesn't see himself as worthy of love or community anymore, he's like a fish flopping on the floor, breathing his last gasps before his inevitable demise. That's why being transformed by the "miracle of God" doesn't bring him into the fold, it cements his decision. He has been given redemption beyond the wildest dreams of mortals, but what he's being offered is perverse, obscene. And up until the last minutes it seems like it's going to turn around for him: that he's going to embrace this new existence, acting as Father Pruitt's disciple bringing others into it.

And then he has that one final small monologue, and you realize where it's headed. It's an amazing, tragically bitter end to an incredible character arc. It is such a bold and subversive story development and so well built up to, even when you don't realize it. The end credits rolling as Erin's screams play in the background is one of the most haunting things I've ever experienced.
That's how I read it anyways.
 

Xprimentyl

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Started Poker Face. A young woman with an impeccable ability to tell when people are lying inexplicably finds herself entangled in multiple murders whilst roadtripping and effectively living out of her car.

I'm along for the ride, but after episode 3, I'm firmly in the camp that anyone who finds themselves stumbling upon murders at every stop on the road, and they're not a detective being paid to do it, I'd settle somewhere and stay away from everyone. Recommended if only because I can't explain the attraction I have to Natasha Lyonne and that signature mop of red hair; she is text book "friends with benefits" material.
Finished (well "caught up on") Poker Face. Once you accept the complete, constant, and shameless contrivance, it's an enjoyable show. It effectively tows the line between humor and austerity, but for a show called "Poker Face," you wonder how someone with Charlie Cale's ability is so piss poor at showing her hand. I guess it adds to its charm that she is so confident as to reveal she's figured out a killer's best-laid plans right in front of them... with no one else around, i.e.: she figures everything out, and instead of going to he cops, pulls the "A-HA!" to the killer who has nothing to lose (being a killer,) and the one person who knows is one bash over the head away from being the one person who KNEW.

"I'd love to grab a beer with Natasha Lyonne" / 10, would recommend.
 

Casual Shinji

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I'm gonna have to call some BS on this article. "Game Ellie spent five years training to be a killing machine bordering on being an actual sociopath..." Ignoring the fact that in the game it was 4 years, not 5, she most definitely didn't spend that time training to be a killing machine any more than Dina or Jessie did. She went on patrols, that was it. Also, in the game Dina never finds out what Joel did, she only finds out Ellie is immune and that Joel, Tommy, and Maria know. But she never finds out Joel killed the Fireflies at Salt Lake City because they were trying to find a cure and kill Ellie in the process. Only in the show does Ellie tell her that.

People hating this season so much that they're making shit up to get mad about... Freaking deja vu to when the game came out, man.

After watching all the comments here and some postmortem analysis of TLoU season 2, I'm glad I didn't pick up HBO for it. This was a unique chance in the history of adaptational storytelling to fix the mistakes of the original, and in doing so not only eclipse it, but possibly redeem it as well. And they just didn't. Since I haven't watched the season, all I can say is this: why is everything and everyone so goddamn clean!? Merely watching out of context clips between the show and the game the issue is glaring: buildings have immaculate paint, clothes look fresh off the rack, people look well groomed and washed. Compare that with the game and the difference is night and day, and dare I say core to the atmosphere of absolute misery it aims to create. In the game people are bruised, dirty and unkempt, their clothes are worn, faded and have holes in them, and the environments are in total ruin. Environmental storytelling is key in any post-apocalypse story, because that's what those stories are ultimately about. And if you fail to sell the environment, you're just left with people bumbling around a tourist attraction set.

This is a high-budget, high-profile HBO show about one of the biggest and most infamously controversial games of all time. Whyyyy does it look this cheap?

I'm truly taken aback by what I'm about to say, but I'm not kidding: this season is making me want to replay the game to experience the story again. What. The. Fuck?
I played a bit of the game myself again after Season 2, and there's a little detail where Ellie will get a sweat stain around her collar after running. And this was present during cutscenes. This isn't just TLoU2, games have entire teams working on shit like this. There's so much focus on realism in games that AAA studios want to make damn sure you see every sweat drop and sand particle on a character's face. TV shows probably feel they don't need to be this dedicated to realistic details, because it's already real. Abby is a real person on screen now, so why bother making her clothes look appropriately worn, her skin properly blemished, and her hair accurately mucky? I have shirts that look more worn than Abby's in the show. There's a scene where Catherine O'Hara's character is sitting next to a cooler, and it looks brand new. And then remember that that thing is 25 years old.
 

Bartholen

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I played a bit of the game myself again after Season 2, and there's a little detail where Ellie will get a sweat stain around her collar after running. And this was present during cutscenes. This isn't just TLoU2, games have entire teams working on shit like this. There's so much focus on realism in games that AAA studios want to make damn sure you see every sweat drop and sand particle on a character's face. TV shows probably feel they don't need to be this dedicated to realistic details, because it's already real. Abby is a real person on screen now, so why bother making her clothes look appropriately worn, her skin properly blemished, and her hair accurately mucky? I have shirts that look more worn than Abby's in the show. There's a scene where Catherine O'Hara's character is sitting next to a cooler, and it looks brand new. And then remember that that thing is 25 years old.
Speaking of details, I had a talk about the season with a friend of mine who watched it all the way through without having played the game, and we both ended on the conclusion that the HBO show isn't just a bad adaptation, it's an adaptation that doesn't even seem to understand how adaptations are supposed to work to begin with. In both TLoU games a ton of characterization and tone is created during gameplay. Not just the banter between characters, but in the animations (like how Joel strangles dudes), environmental details, enemy behavior and even the gore. TLoU 2 is an intentionally miserable game not only to watch but also play, and I think the violence is genuinely a more important part of creating that atmosphere than people realize. It's one of the few games where the gore made me genuinely uncomfortable: the horrifically realistic detail and blood spatter, locational damage (did you know you can actually shoot people through the throat, and they'll give a realistic response?), dismemberment and so on. But it's also how the characters act around the violence: Ellie's expressions are vicious, and her combat dialogue is often along the lines of "Got you, fucker".

These are small, seemingly incidental details that do matter, which the show does not seem to grasp at all. Since you can't just fill the show with action scenes that do not progress the plot and HBO seems to have chickened out with the gore, you could achieve a similar atmosphere of misery through other, distinctly tv-specific means: lighting, music, dialogue details, even just small bits of silent acting could do in only a few moments what games have to take dozens of minutes to accomplish. But not only is the second season one of the flattest-looking things I've ever seen visuals wise, it also goes completely overboard with the dialogue and overexplanation. It seems like the changes in the season were made as a response to only the most vapid, bad-faith criticisms leveled at the story. This video summed it up pretty perfectly for me:
 
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BrawlMan

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Jentry Chau vs. the Underworld - 13 Episode Mini Series that's like a throwback to Juniper Lee, but for a more late pre-teen and teenage audience.This action coming of age story does get dark, in a good way, and treats audience with respect. This a 10/10 show for me! I wish I saw it sooner. This mini series will hit you in the feels. Several times over. The show has a banging intro too! Netflix, puts this out on DVD already!

 

Casual Shinji

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Speaking of details, I had a talk about the season with a friend of mine who watched it all the way through without having played the game, and we both ended on the conclusion that the HBO show isn't just a bad adaptation, it's an adaptation that doesn't even seem to understand how adaptations are supposed to work to begin with. In both TLoU games a ton of characterization and tone is created during gameplay. Not just the banter between characters, but in the animations (like how Joel strangles dudes), environmental details, enemy behavior and even the gore. TLoU 2 is an intentionally miserable game not only to watch but also play, and I think the violence is genuinely a more important part of creating that atmosphere than people realize. It's one of the few games where the gore made me genuinely uncomfortable: the horrifically realistic detail and blood spatter, locational damage (did you know you can actually shoot people through the throat, and they'll give a realistic response?), dismemberment and so on. But it's also how the characters act around the violence: Ellie's expressions are vicious, and her combat dialogue is often along the lines of "Got you, fucker".

These are small, seemingly incidental details that do matter, which the show does not seem to grasp at all. Since you can't just fill the show with action scenes that do not progress the plot and HBO seems to have chickened out with the gore, you could achieve a similar atmosphere of misery through other, distinctly tv-specific means: lighting, music, dialogue details, even just small bits of silent acting could do in only a few moments what games have to take dozens of minutes to accomplish. But not only is the second season one of the flattest-looking things I've ever seen visuals wise, it also goes completely overboard with the dialogue and overexplanation. It seems like the changes in the season were made as a response to only the most vapid, bad-faith criticisms leveled at the story. This video summed it up pretty perfectly for me:
There's a lot to say about how the sequel vs. the first game vs. the show handles gore and violence. In my opinion the first game did it the best, and succeeded in what the sequel tried to do with its violence by not putting so much emphasis on it. I think TLoU2's violence becomes miserable less due to how off-putting it is and more due to how obnoxious it becomes. I don't think the show needed more gore, it just needed the action that was there to be better and more vicious. You take movies like No Country for Old Men and A History of Violence... These are not action movies, but when the violent scenes hit they hit hard and fast, and you can tell a lot of effort went into crafting them. Just the scene where Tom Stall's son beats the shit out of those two bullies, there's no gore there, but you can feel the pain in those hits.

TLoU show just doesn't have the talent behind it to put that pepper into its violent confrontations, it never did, even in the first season. From the moment Season 2 got announced the writing was on the wall, because the second game put a lot more emphasis on both Ellie and Abby's physique and capacity for violence, and the creative team behind the show had proven to not be very skilled at displaying that with Season 1.

But at least Shimmer didn't get pointlessly blown up this time. Ellie and horses man...
 
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Old_Hunter_77

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Godfather of Harlem, season 2

While I enjoyed it well enough, as it's the kind of show that just consistently delivers the thing you're there for if you're there for that kind of thing (period piece crime + politics show), I was reminded by the end of why this sort of thing works better as movies. I quit Boardwalk Empire and Ray Donovan after two seasons. It's just... how many times can people betray each other, make new deals, the upper hand of power goes back and forth, yadda yadda yadda. It just gets to the point where the thrill of seeing your hero or protagonist make a score is undercut by the knowledge that he will lose, only to gain it back.

My wife was kinda down on the whole thing anyway but she stuck around mostly to see how they portray Malcolm X. Season 2 goes through its true but with some slight fictional retcon version of the events that led to X's death. Dramatically it was the most compelling part of the season because there is the weight of history but also the actors have to do a lot of tense clenchy control of their emotions type of hushed acting.

On the flip side was the Italian mobster plots, especially the one with the boss' daughter and her boyfriend. Dear god that was so dumb, they're so dumb. It was all just.. so dumb. Almost good-bad. Like characters are just doing... stuff... for no discernable reason.

I may or may not come back for me, but if I do it'll be a solo viewing experience.


On the genre side, Andor has re-awakened a Star War in me. I was thinking about checking out the Clone Wars animated show. Some folks really did that one.
 

thebobmaster

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On the genre side, Andor has re-awakened a Star War in me. I was thinking about checking out the Clone Wars animated show. Some folks really did that one.
If you do decide to check out the Clone Wars show, firstly: expect some good shit. Secondly, look up the chronological/recommended viewing order for the episode. Don't just go by the release order.
 

Old_Hunter_77

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If you do decide to check out the Clone Wars show, firstly: expect some good shit. Secondly, look up the chronological/recommended viewing order for the episode. Don't just go by the release order.
Why? If they released it in an order, we can watch in that order? I understand if the events are chronological, but so what?
I mean look at the Godfather- there was a TV network in the 70s or 80s that re-organized the events in the first two movies to present everything in chronological order (the second film shows two generations' of story in parallel). And it can be an interesting exercise for a re-watch for fans but it also kills the thematic intention of the original.

I'm sure Clone Wars doesn't have the thematic resonance of the Godfather but my point is if they released the episodes in a certain order there's gotta be reason for it?
 

thebobmaster

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Why? If they released it in an order, we can watch in that order? I understand if the events are chronological, but so what?
I mean look at the Godfather- there was a TV network in the 70s or 80s that re-organized the events in the first two movies to present everything in chronological order (the second film shows two generations' of story in parallel). And it can be an interesting exercise for a re-watch for fans but it also kills the thematic intention of the original.

I'm sure Clone Wars doesn't have the thematic resonance of the Godfather but my point is if they released the episodes in a certain order there's gotta be reason for it?
Having watched it...I'm not sure what the reason was in the episode release order, because the timeline goes all over the place at seemingly random. That said, the other reason I recommended chronological over release is that...well, season 1, when watched in episode order, can be a bit of a turn-off because the show really doesn't start kicking into quality until about halfway through season 2.
 

Old_Hunter_77

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Having watched it...I'm not sure what the reason was in the episode release order, because the timeline goes all over the place at seemingly random. That said, the other reason I recommended chronological over release is that...well, season 1, when watched in episode order, can be a bit of a turn-off because the show really doesn't start kicking into quality until about halfway through season 2.
Hmm ok well maybe I'll do that.

Either way I think I'll start by subjecting myself to the first two prequel films. I'm curious to see if they're as bad as I remember.
 

Bartholen

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Finished Midnight Mass. Absolute masterpiece, 10/10, should have won all the awards. One of the best endings in anything ever. A shame that the final monologue by Erin slips pretty hard into some cosmic, hippy-dippy woo-woo nonsense and it kind of takes me out of it. But then it's followed by the final moments scored with "Nearer my God to thee", and it instantly fades from memory.
 
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Phoenixmgs

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Government Cheese - 7/10

Overall I really enjoyed the show. It's one of those shows where the characters don't at all speak like normal people and it's not super annoying like that sometimes can be. The show has a nice quirkiness to it with some rather interesting scenes and the way they are filmed. The music is great. The main character, Hampton, is a thief that just gets released from jail in 1969 and has to re-acclimate into the world. The stuff that works is the his relationships with his family and trying to win them back over. The stuff that doesn't work is all the added conflict. Hampton ends up having to do one more job (complete cliche) to get some money to pay off someone and the person he robbed from told the cops they won't press any charges or anything, but the cops still keep investigating for some reason, which doesn't make any sense. The show is a "proper" TV show where each episode is it's own thing instead of just a movie that split into 10 episodes (like a lot of TV shows are nowadays). I would've loved the show a lot more if they dropped the unneeded conflicts and it was more character focused in the conflicts and felt less manufactured.
 

Gordon_4

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Government Cheese - 7/10

Overall I really enjoyed the show. It's one of those shows where the characters don't at all speak like normal people and it's not super annoying like that sometimes can be. The show has a nice quirkiness to it with some rather interesting scenes and the way they are filmed. The music is great. The main character, Hampton, is a thief that just gets released from jail in 1969 and has to re-acclimate into the world. The stuff that works is the his relationships with his family and trying to win them back over. The stuff that doesn't work is all the added conflict. Hampton ends up having to do one more job (complete cliche) to get some money to pay off someone and the person he robbed from told the cops they won't press any charges or anything, but the cops still keep investigating for some reason, which doesn't make any sense. The show is a "proper" TV show where each episode is it's own thing instead of just a movie that split into 10 episodes (like a lot of TV shows are nowadays). I would've loved the show a lot more if they dropped the unneeded conflicts and it was more character focused in the conflicts and felt less manufactured.
That thing about not pressing charges, I don’t know if it’s common in the US but there are certain offences in Australia - domestic abuse for example - which the police are obligated to investigate regardless. But they’re usually crimes that involve violence, although robbery by definition involves violence. But in 1969, if someone said they weren’t interested in pursuing it I don’t see the cops doing anything other than saying “Woohoo!” and going away. So yeah I agree that’s odd.