Discussing Six Days in Fallujah with Spec Ops: The Line Lead Level Designer Jörg Friedrich
- Thread starter Nick Calandra
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This is primarily what’s preventing games, particularly the shooter genre or anything highly competitive, from being seen as something more than kids toys. It ultimately devolves any attempt the medium makes at credible artistic relevance into “Frag Fest v. X”
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Interestingly, Spec Ops had one, but it was at the publishers insistence and the Dev team was very much against it(so they outsourced it).
That’s how it usually goes I’d imagine. Wonder how the MTX’s would go in this one.
Preorder now for a chance to find the elusive WP lootbox!!
New and dumb development.
Some developers from other studios are now petitioning to have the game banned.
Petition is targeting
The United Nations, The US Government, President Joe Biden, The Canadian Government, The Iraq government, Microsoft, PlayStation and Valve
Some developers from other studios are now petitioning to have the game banned.
Petition is targeting
The United Nations, The US Government, President Joe Biden, The Canadian Government, The Iraq government, Microsoft, PlayStation and Valve
And look at you trying to defend this game because it triggers the left and progressive and the sheer insensitivity towards iraqis who got their home destroyed by the US and later ISIL.New and dumb development.
Some developers from other studios are now petitioning to have the game banned.
Petition is targeting
The United Nations, The US Government, President Joe Biden, The Canadian Government, The Iraq government, Microsoft, PlayStation and Valve
Do you have sense of optics?
this is why I hate Ubisoft for what they did to my baby Rainbow Six Patriots
Ok
I literally signed petitions to government against bombing Iraq, I feel this is important to understand for context for what I'm going to say now.
I can separate the idea of the war itself and my views on that from the actions of Troops on the ground. I think this game has potential to do something pretty good and make people try to understand the difficulty and the concern of soldiers who were on the ground having to try and deal with this. Soldiers just trying to do their job whose course of action was determined by people far above their pay grade who (unless you really do think they are evil monsters) you must believe they really didn't want to harm civilians.
Do you have any sense of optics in terms of how bad it looks to be from a different game studio pushing to have another studios product cancelled because they're upset ISIS is the villain or it's portraying a more grim reality than the gung ho COD games?
For all we know so far if you accidentally kill a civilian you'll end up having to sit through a scene of you being court marshalled
I have zero hope or expectations for this game. I don't have enough faith in humanity to believe you could accomplish the lighting that hit Spec Ops twice. Im fully expecting
but for now I'm not even gonna pay attention until its out.
but for now I'm not even gonna pay attention until its out.
fun fact I was at a tech show and got a brief hands on preview of Spec Ops the line............ you have no clue how much I was blindsided by the game when it came out. Like at the show for the preview they went all in on playing it as a straight faced Modern Military shooter game. Like cameo netting all over the stand and workers at the stand all in fake tactical vests telling people what kind of tactics they should try in the demo thing. Like they sold the hell out of the idea it was just another generic military shooter.
Yeah Spec Ops sat in my backlog forever. Im not even sure I paid for it. I think of one of my friends hit me up and said "This game is gonna blow your mind" and it really wasn't until you get a ways into the game that you start getting seriously concerned about the tone of the game and even then the final chapters were kind of a mindf***. I remember calling him and being like "Why did you make me feel feelings?????!"
My problem is LOUII, like they if they spend all this time and energy comparing this to SOTL then they can't pull the rug over on us twice and then if they go the LOUII route and beat us over the head with questions of morality it's gonna super disappointing. Worse case scenario they really did intend to make a generic shooter and SOTL was just a fluke, a bright jewel born of poor project supervision so this Six days thing is just a "Press F to show respects" game.
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The fact that developers are signing and supporting that petition is...concerning. And it's a lot of them. It's literally pushing the notion that games will spawn the next wave of mass shooters again, so either the devs aren't reading what they're signing, or they're really shortsighted about the implications of this.
This is such a weird project to talk about, because I hate that their marketing of it is putting the focus on "realistic combat experience" and not the stories they're sharing from both US soldiers and Iraqis. I want to hear those stories, and I want them to stop talking about how they're "procedurally" generating the city to recreate the combat experience.
I can't get behind the notion of "censoring" this when every other piece of media about Vietnam, World Wars, etc has left out so many details about what happened during those battles and even then don't take the time to interview people that really experienced it both from the military and civilians.
This is such a weird project to talk about, because I hate that their marketing of it is putting the focus on "realistic combat experience" and not the stories they're sharing from both US soldiers and Iraqis. I want to hear those stories, and I want them to stop talking about how they're "procedurally" generating the city to recreate the combat experience.
I can't get behind the notion of "censoring" this when every other piece of media about Vietnam, World Wars, etc has left out so many details about what happened during those battles and even then don't take the time to interview people that really experienced it both from the military and civilians.
I do wish the best of luck to you and hope you can enjoy the game. Me personally, I want nothing to do with it. I know it's your job, but you are interested. The petition thing is stupid and won't solve anything. It;s just free advertisement for the game. Lock clockwork.
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I should clarify I'm not exactly looking forward to this as a "game". I'm a journalist, so I'd like to hear the stories that are being told if the people involved in this project want them told.
I do think the project is interesting in what it's "trying to do", but via my interview with the Spec Ops lead designer, right now, based on what they've shown, I don't see it achieving that goal if it's main priority is a realistic combat experience.
This was an enlightening interview on it. https://mashable.com/article/six-days-in-fallujah-interview-2021-mike-ergo/
Honestly they should of just called it 7 Days in Fababab or something come with a disclaimer saying this is fictionalized story based on real events and avoided the whole thing. No one would make a black hawk down video game but then again Blackwater had a game on connect for PR so anything is possible.
At worst going back to Black Hawk Down this game will probably be well made on game level but probably full of shit about the accounts of the event in question.
At worst going back to Black Hawk Down this game will probably be well made on game level but probably full of shit about the accounts of the event in question.
Sorry to break it to you....
Came out right about the time the Iraq war happened too. I thought I played a demo for it back in the day but I don't see one on steam and so maybe one never existed and I'm thinking of something else?
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All I can say is they basically cannot “f” this up, as they are representing the victims of a real life tragic situation with the game. Both developer and publisher are bound to honoring their stories in a respectful way, and it’s all going to boil down to how well they are able to translate their lofty ambitions on paper into game code.
Technical shortcomings may be relatively easy to let slide and forgive, but to fail on the premise and drive behind the whole project would leave an irredeemable blight on their reputations.
I really hope they succeed, because the gaming industry could use something with this kind of weight to it, serving as a testament to what can only be accomplished in this medium.
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Yup, if we actually get a game that delivers true stories and the empathy that they say they're looking to promote, I can get behind.
If it's just another "tactical pew pew" game then, ugh.
Honestly I think even if they try but end up fucking it up then it will actually be good for gaming as a medium.
A lot of development and advancement in other mediums was made by people trying something and screwing up then people being able to look at what was done and build on it and improve.
The Grindhouse films of the past inspiring Quentin Tarantino etc
Looking back considering that was the raise of stuff like Socom and Conflict Desert storm I should of known Black Hawk Down was on there post 9/11 was a good time for video games to be an army recruit tool.
For me if the they screw up they screw up. I say the first 2 Modern Warfares and remake treat national conflicts with some tact they have their issues and I can name them but there is tact and care there. Not to mention Spec Ops which should be the standard to branch from.
The 6 Days devs got the ball with 2 seconds left the win the game and if they miss they will get it and rightfully so.