I've had a few mates ask me how I pick up women and I always give them the same answer:
"With a 6-pack grip."
HAW HAW HAW HAW
"With a 6-pack grip."
HAW HAW HAW HAW
Do all women like jerks? No (a rant)
- Thread starter Hiraeth
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Meh. I've always acted the way I do now and that's probably not going to change. It does irk me when someone makes what I think to be a "bad" match ("bad" in this case also meaning "not me", I'll own that) but since it's a negative, and it's always easier to focus on the negative (because it's the negative we want to avoid while forgetting how to see the positive) that's what I remember, and that's what I ***** about. I do know some people who have found wonderful partners, and it's very inspiring to watch them together, so I know there's hope out there.
Or
Complaining about generalizations is like masturbation, you're just screwing with yourself. Complaining on the 'net about generalizations is like masturbation while wearing wool mitts; still screwing with yourself but it's scratchy, irritating and ultimately unsatisfying. People who can understand the flaws with generalizations ignore or refrain from using them, those who don't want to believe them protest them, and those who believe and perpetuate them typically have no interest in being corrected. Just saying.
Or
Complaining about generalizations is like masturbation, you're just screwing with yourself. Complaining on the 'net about generalizations is like masturbation while wearing wool mitts; still screwing with yourself but it's scratchy, irritating and ultimately unsatisfying. People who can understand the flaws with generalizations ignore or refrain from using them, those who don't want to believe them protest them, and those who believe and perpetuate them typically have no interest in being corrected. Just saying.
OBVIOUSLY. I was giving one example. And it also doesn't matter if you say not all women are like that. Of course that is true as well. From my experience, every girl I have met is how I described. Same with many of my friends. I have never met a nice girl that was single. Ever. I was speaking from personal experience (which regardless of statistical evidence, of which there is none apparent) is still a valid form of arguement and / or expression.MasochisticMuse said:
Yes there are a lot of girls who fit my description and there are a lot of people who are decent humans beings also. Regardless, I am still allowed to express my opinion and I find it hypocritical that everyone has jumped on the band-wagon to the extent of pointing out that anyone who expresses an opinion not of their own is either "stupid" or a "troll".
If the world shows me a decent human being that likes me for me then maybe I'll have a different perspective. Until then I reserve the right to assume that this person doesn't exist. That way I don't have my hopes up.
FYI: Whenever I hear a girl saying "All men are pigs" or "Chivalry is dead" or "there are no good guys left in the world", obviously they are wrong. But they feel this way because of their own personal experiences. Who am I to say they are wrong? This is the way the world has treated them! It goes both ways. SO! Advice? If you see someone complaining in a sexist way; then just don't talk to them if you think they are wrong, because they have every fucking right to feel that way.
Ok, I take my normal position which is in contrast to the thread. I do agree it is well written and conveys a lot of very accurate ideas and notions. Good job. God knows its annoying to see these Woe is me threads pop up a couple times a week.
However some issues in WoT format
I think a big part of all the problems we deal with now is the shifting dichotomy of gender roles in society. Part of it is that some of the older barbaric notions still work, but increasingly that is falling into disfavor. Because of that we find ourselves in an area of confusion where there is no right or wrong answer one way or another because the worlds perspective on accepted behavior is changing. Until the playing field is level and balanced you are always going to butt heads with these types of conflictions.
However I think that all of this points out a very important difference. For some reason guys on this forum are entirely too liberated about airing their insecurities. Im guessing its in part due to the anonymity of the internet that compels some guys to vocalize some thoughts that they really are better kept to themselves. There is entirely too much of it. You do not see the females on the forum doing this same kind of thing on the same scale, now do you?
However some issues in WoT format
The whole notion of girls only date jerks. Honestly that's not in the hands of men as much as it might seem to be. Its actually completely in the hands of women. Simple fact, In entirely too many cases it works. If it didn't work do you really think guys would waste time and effort into a pattern of behavior that wouldn't yield the results they wanted? If they were not rewarded for their bad behavior you would see that behavior change.
Is it right to say all women like jerks? Of course not. But are there enough examples where this can be a common misconception? you better believe it. For every good woman out there who doesn't play silly mind games, and looks at the opposite sex as something to be exploited to their advantage, there is at least one, if not more to counteract that position. Like it or not stereotypes exist for a reason, there is no shortage of examples to back the stereotype up. Which leads me to my next point.
One thing you brought up that is an excellent point is that women are people too. Which means that women have just as many bad habits in this same arena as men do. Part of what confuses men is the notion of the feminine mystique. The notion that women are this boundlessly complex enigma that you can never hope to unravel. This gives men a false impression and that is not aided by women who do nothing dispel it but instead try to further that mystery for their own benefit. Do all women do this? No. However are there enough women who to keep fueling this notion for generations? Indeed. In a way that mystique is justified as women come in infinite variation, but that really is not a feminine trait, that is a human trait.
Lastly, it goes both ways. For every negative stereotype the female gender is forced to endure there are also equally negative stereotypes for men. Just like the sensitive guy who is only sensitive to get laid, The insecure guy who thinks all women are evil and are only good for sex, Or the Jerk who gets laid just because he is confident. I do not think its really defending the cause against pidgenholing women, by doing the same to men.
While I know this is not the case across the board, One reoccurring theme comes up which is confidence and insecurity. I think most rational women do look at confidence as being an attractive quality and there is nothing wrong with that, but the problem is that it seems that insecurity is seen as downright repulsive in most cases. This in and of itself is no better and no different than guys who think girls just like jerks as its basically sitting in judgment of the others failing.
Is it right to say all women like jerks? Of course not. But are there enough examples where this can be a common misconception? you better believe it. For every good woman out there who doesn't play silly mind games, and looks at the opposite sex as something to be exploited to their advantage, there is at least one, if not more to counteract that position. Like it or not stereotypes exist for a reason, there is no shortage of examples to back the stereotype up. Which leads me to my next point.
One thing you brought up that is an excellent point is that women are people too. Which means that women have just as many bad habits in this same arena as men do. Part of what confuses men is the notion of the feminine mystique. The notion that women are this boundlessly complex enigma that you can never hope to unravel. This gives men a false impression and that is not aided by women who do nothing dispel it but instead try to further that mystery for their own benefit. Do all women do this? No. However are there enough women who to keep fueling this notion for generations? Indeed. In a way that mystique is justified as women come in infinite variation, but that really is not a feminine trait, that is a human trait.
Lastly, it goes both ways. For every negative stereotype the female gender is forced to endure there are also equally negative stereotypes for men. Just like the sensitive guy who is only sensitive to get laid, The insecure guy who thinks all women are evil and are only good for sex, Or the Jerk who gets laid just because he is confident. I do not think its really defending the cause against pidgenholing women, by doing the same to men.
While I know this is not the case across the board, One reoccurring theme comes up which is confidence and insecurity. I think most rational women do look at confidence as being an attractive quality and there is nothing wrong with that, but the problem is that it seems that insecurity is seen as downright repulsive in most cases. This in and of itself is no better and no different than guys who think girls just like jerks as its basically sitting in judgment of the others failing.
I think a big part of all the problems we deal with now is the shifting dichotomy of gender roles in society. Part of it is that some of the older barbaric notions still work, but increasingly that is falling into disfavor. Because of that we find ourselves in an area of confusion where there is no right or wrong answer one way or another because the worlds perspective on accepted behavior is changing. Until the playing field is level and balanced you are always going to butt heads with these types of conflictions.
However I think that all of this points out a very important difference. For some reason guys on this forum are entirely too liberated about airing their insecurities. Im guessing its in part due to the anonymity of the internet that compels some guys to vocalize some thoughts that they really are better kept to themselves. There is entirely too much of it. You do not see the females on the forum doing this same kind of thing on the same scale, now do you?
Bear in mind that what most "nice guys" call "jerk" means in reality "confident guys who can get laid", and since them treating women "nice" don't get them laid, so "jerks" must be treating women bad to get them into their sack. The thing is, most "nice guys" aren't nice: they are needy, wimpy, stalkerish, secretive, have poor self-esteem, and ironically tend to be secret misogynists at their worst when they feel frustrated that their target goes for someone they judge as being beneath them because he doesn't treat the girl like a princess to be worshipped.Hiraeth said:
It is perfectly okey for women to go for the most viable mate, and most women know that "bad boys" do make great lovers, but poor life partners and fathers. Most women, at least the sane ones, ideally prefer "good guys" for long term relationships, by that I mean guys who display great character traits, ambition or potential, treat them like an equal and respect, yet show manliness, assume their desires and work upfront to seduce a woman.
Do not listen to the "nice guy" crowd and start to second guess your choice of male partners. You have your preferences for a reason, both from biological, instinctive, and social reasons, and it is perfectly okey. You are fine as you are.
I know a few jerks that have treated their partners like shit, have violently abused their partner, and I've even met a couple of girls who have been raped by others too. I'm sure some of you have as well. There are two kinds of jerks. The one you have described, and the one I have described.WingedIncubus said:
When your "opinion" is that every girl is a brainless moron that doesn't see anything wrong with being taken advantage of, yes, people are going to disagree with you. That's not "jumping on the bandwagon", unless perhaps you consider common sense to be a bandwagon.Jewrean said:
If every girl you've ever met is like that and no one appreciates you for you, then either you need to move to a different neighbourhood and meet some new, decent people, or you need to reevaluate yourself and decide if you're a person you would even want to hang out with.
I have to say that I am not that confident in how to handle a relationship because simply I do not have experience in that field. I have had 1 girlfriend and that was back when I was in 8th Grade and I don't really consider that a girlfriend because we didn't really do much even though I did try to hang out with her she just never tried herself.Hiraeth said:
Hence why it is perfectly stupid to give the same label for guys who are simply confident, assertive, and enjoy sex as it is, with complete abusers and psychopaths.Jewrean said:
This point interests me, especially in light of the huge amount of threads focused around guys' physical preferences. There always seems to be a thread called "What is your preferred type" or "Tits or Ass" or "What characteristics do you look for in a girl".Eclectic Dreck said:
It's true, the portion of the female population who fits into the ideal feminine appearance is extremely low. And I'm sad that guys make threads like the ones I mentioned above, because it's really only focusing on some attributes of a woman, it implicitly raises appearance above personality in importance for men, and it's bloody unrealistic!
The other point to remember is: it cuts the other way. I'm sure some of the men out there wouldn't enjoy it if they thought girls were judging them in terms of their physical appearance. So when a guy states his "personal preferences" on how a woman should look, he really should step back and wonder whether maybe it would sound so good if it was a girl making the same statements about men.
In the end, physical attraction is a personal thing that is affected by emotion. So if they are attractive enough so you are not turned off by a person, chances are if you end up falling in love with that person, the level of attraction you feel towards them will only rise. For example, I know my fiance is a little overweight. He has quite a pot-belly, which is not generally considered sexy. Yet because I love him so much, he's extremely attractive to me, belly and all. I even consider it cute!
So, while appearance is important, it's not the only criteria for judging a person. And if someone does judge solely by looks, they really should beware lest they be judged by the same standards.
[quote="RaphaelsRedemption]In the end, physical attraction is a personal thing that is affected by emotion.[/quote]
Attraction IS an emotion.
Attraction IS an emotion.
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This post made my day, all the more since it was so well written =) *tips hat* =)
I too have marvelled at the level of bitterness towards countless unnamed women who have been so cruel as to 'put' the poster in the friend zone or 'ignore' him (etc etc). On many occasions these people seem to forget that the process of courtship is a two person game (even more so in these post-feminist days, and all the better for it, IMO), and you can't expect a woman to notice you or to fall at your feet just because *you* think *you* are the 'nice' guy. You may well be. But you are also the shy guy, and as such, not as approachable as you think you are.
Girls do not approach the shy (probably slightly frowny) guy who lurks in the corner. Why would they? There's nothing to suggest that the guy won't just grunt at them and look in the other direction because he wants to be left alone. Girls are just as vulnerable as guys when they're trying to get to know someone/ask someone out. You have to try and meet in the middle.
Also, I honestly have no sympathy for dudes who openly admit to having pined after a girl who was their friend, and now lament that they'll never have a chance because they're in the 'friend zone'. It's quite simple - if you want to be with her *ask her out*. Openly and obviously. Don't hint, don't prevaricate - girls can be just as dense as guys in that sense, and your idea of subtle might be her idea of nonexistent. If she says no, man up and deal with it. Create some space if you need to. Just keep everything polite - if she just doesn't feel *that* way about you, she just doesn't. Move on. I hate it when people (men or women) wallow in self indulgent, self pitying misery when they cold be moving on and meeting new people.
Love is complicated, precarious and often painful. But that's real life, and that's growing up and becoming part of the adult world. The key is to be strong, but flexible, and try your hardest not to let your unhappiness turn you into a bitter, unlikeable individual who generalizes about people and turns away from positive experiences. This goes for both genders, actually, but I suppose I'm addressing it more towards males because of the audience on this site, and the nature of the posts and threads that have been mentioned above.
I too have marvelled at the level of bitterness towards countless unnamed women who have been so cruel as to 'put' the poster in the friend zone or 'ignore' him (etc etc). On many occasions these people seem to forget that the process of courtship is a two person game (even more so in these post-feminist days, and all the better for it, IMO), and you can't expect a woman to notice you or to fall at your feet just because *you* think *you* are the 'nice' guy. You may well be. But you are also the shy guy, and as such, not as approachable as you think you are.
Girls do not approach the shy (probably slightly frowny) guy who lurks in the corner. Why would they? There's nothing to suggest that the guy won't just grunt at them and look in the other direction because he wants to be left alone. Girls are just as vulnerable as guys when they're trying to get to know someone/ask someone out. You have to try and meet in the middle.
Also, I honestly have no sympathy for dudes who openly admit to having pined after a girl who was their friend, and now lament that they'll never have a chance because they're in the 'friend zone'. It's quite simple - if you want to be with her *ask her out*. Openly and obviously. Don't hint, don't prevaricate - girls can be just as dense as guys in that sense, and your idea of subtle might be her idea of nonexistent. If she says no, man up and deal with it. Create some space if you need to. Just keep everything polite - if she just doesn't feel *that* way about you, she just doesn't. Move on. I hate it when people (men or women) wallow in self indulgent, self pitying misery when they cold be moving on and meeting new people.
Love is complicated, precarious and often painful. But that's real life, and that's growing up and becoming part of the adult world. The key is to be strong, but flexible, and try your hardest not to let your unhappiness turn you into a bitter, unlikeable individual who generalizes about people and turns away from positive experiences. This goes for both genders, actually, but I suppose I'm addressing it more towards males because of the audience on this site, and the nature of the posts and threads that have been mentioned above.
Lol, since when are females a minority? Last time I checked we were about 50% of the human population, if not slightly more (except perhaps in China). Unless you were talking about female representation in culture, in which case we're definitely a minority. ...-I realize your comment was a joke-Dags90 said:
Anyway, you're totally right about the male privilege bit.
Attraction IS an emotion.[/quote]\WingedIncubus said:
Yeah, but it's more than that... it's a drive, an instinct. Sometimes we don't know why we're attracted, we just are.
And even if it is just an emotion, my point still stands. You are initially attracted, you follow through with it to see if your first instinct was correct. Over time, while getting to know the person you were attracted to, your initial attraction will either be reinforced or undermined.
In my case, it was reinforced. I'm more attracted than ever. And, of course, it can go the other way.
im sorry to say this but, it is your instinct to favour the ALPHA MALE, so even though your concious mind is saying i hate that jerk, your sub concious mind is attracted to them, on a level you cant control.
take whatever shot you want at me now.
EDIT: seeing as im being quoted alot i think i should clarify that whilst u cannot control certain urges u can influence them sometimes.
take whatever shot you want at me now.
EDIT: seeing as im being quoted alot i think i should clarify that whilst u cannot control certain urges u can influence them sometimes.