Do bronies challenge traditional masculine values?

[kailus13]

Before MLP there were furries, before that there was likely something else. Anything with a large enough fanbase will have people fancying them as characters.

Eh, I suppose you're right...As a general rule; people are stupid. When they're are other people, people do stupid things although to go on to say it's curing cancer is pretentious when it's just wank material.

Bronies are challenging nothing other than forming a social group where people can have fun .I see a chav wear a pink polo shirt, that's socially challenging.

I never said we were challenging anything, I was just acting as a devil's advocate to your "pony porn proves otherwise
" message. Also, who said anything about cancer?

 

[Casual Shinji]

The only thing bronies are challenging is my patience with how overly serious they're taking a cartoon about ponies.

 

[Loop Stricken]

The only thing bronies are challenging is my patience with how overly serious they're taking a cartoon about ponies.

You don't defend things you like when people rag on them?

 

[Radoh]

]Yes because male bronies are not known for being terribly masculine

Baseless Generalisations.

and it has nothing to do with how they like My Little Pony or not, it is the other factors. Factors like joining some pseudo-club on the internet

Not terribly relevant since you yourself joined The Escapist community so you could discuss video games.

discussing a cartoon with fanatical devotion on the internet

Pony chat here on the Escapist talks about pony significantly less than other topics, since we already know that we like the show, we're in the user group after all. We talk politics, video games, warhammer vs halo happens a lot, etc.

the average and stereotypical brony (ignoring their appreciation for a cartoon aimed at girls) does not conjure the image of a masculine male.

In your mind sure, but again that's hardly an objective viewpoint you are pushing as fact.

 

[Casual Shinji]

The only thing bronies are challenging is my patience with how overly serious they're taking a cartoon about ponies.

You don't defend things you like when people rag on them?

No, actually I don't. There's no real point in defending something I like against people who rag on it, unless they're outright lying about its content.

I don't mind dudes watching MLP one bit, but the constant pony exposure can work on ones nerves.

 

[Calibanbutcher]

Challenge? Nah, I don't really get people having issues with being "manly" What defines manly? Drinking beer, watching sports, brawling and other such nonsense?

I have seen the first 4 episodes, show is alright, didn't click with me, but it was okay, not sure why it exploded all over the internet (I think 4Chan had something to do with it)

Besides, we all know a man is a miserable little pile of secrets someone who can beat Devil May Cry 3 on Hell and Hell mode!

Been there done that.
Also, bonus man points are awarded for finishing God Hand and Vanquish on the hardest difficulty settings.

(I kid, real man play Slender and Amnesia without turning into sniveling piles of fear. Now THAT'S what being a MAN is all about, even when you are a woman.)

OT:
The show is alright for what it is, but it never clicked with me and I really don't believe that watching an above average cartoon show aimed at little girls counts as "challenging traditional values", but if you enjoy it, good for you.

 

[Mikeyfell]

If quality writing is considered inherently feminine, then why is it a bad thing if the definition of masculine gets changed?

Or maybe it's the bright color pallet that's the problem.
Or maybe it's because all but 1 of the main characters are women.
Or maybe it's because of the breaks into over the top musical numbers that serve no purpose.


The video it's self said the definitions of "masculine" and "feminine" are always changing, so it would be silly to deny that MLP is having an impact.

So either embrace the change or.. ya' know... don't.
Nobody ever said you have to conform to the current definition of manliness.
Just be your self for fuck's sake.

 

[GloatingSwine]

And yet somehow none of this came up when PowerPuff Girls was popular? I'm just sick to death of people dissecting the possible reasons and/or implications of people liking a particular cartoon.

When Powerpuff Girls was popular there wasn't a vocal subculture across pretty much every corner of the internet (or at least the bits of it inhabited by 18-35 year olds) that defined a significant quantity of their online persona by it.




(It was also better. /runaway)

 

[Hagi]

I'm actually going to say it's more likely they're reinforcing traditional male 'values' if anything. Albeit negative ones instead of positive ones.

The general reputation bronies have, to the average person, isn't really how they view themselves...

I'm fairly certain that if you asked Joe Average to describe bronies he'd probably use words like: "lazy", "childish", "perverted", "weird", "socially awkward" etc.

Not really words that aren't commonly associated with men anyway.

I'm sorry bronies, it's not how I personally view you, but I feel quite safe in saying that the average person regards you more like a traditional well-known man-child than he/she regards you as some sort of rare sensitive feminine soul.

 

[V da Mighty Taco]

Um, what? What do you mean by "by their nature, they are not (masculine)"? Excuse me if I'm misunderstanding you, but it seems like you're implying that most male bronies are not viewed as fairly normal males before they became a brony, which is flat-out not true and is incredibly prejudiced. As I said before, male bronies typically get shunned or at least lose a lot of respect from family and / or peers once the news gets out that they like a little girl's show, primarily because it's seen as something a grown man in particular should not do. This doesn't really apply to female bronies to anywhere near the same degree, as them liking a little girl's show is viewed as far more acceptable. Hence, males liking the show defies what is seen as specifically acceptable for males to do and by definition challenges the established gender roles. Can you tell me where my argument falls apart here?

Yes because male bronies are not known for being terribly masculine - and it has nothing to do with how they like My Little Pony or not, it is the other factors. Factors like joining some pseudo-club on the internet, discussing a cartoon with fanatical devotion on the internet; the average and stereotypical brony (ignoring their appreciation for a cartoon aimed at girls) does not conjure the image of a masculine male.

That being said, a masculine male who does call himself a brony would challenge traditional masculine values as an individual. As a group bronys do not due to the average representative of said group not being particularly masculine.

Once again, that's both blatantly false and unbelievably prejudiced. You're entire argument hinges on assumptions and stereotypes, that almost every male brony was seen as weird before they became a brony. Most were not, contrary to what you believe, and only became seen as actually weird by those around them after they started watching a show about pastel-colored ponies. You have no non-assumtion-based knowledge of how the average brony was viewed beforehand, so your argument is invalid.

Captcha: "what for"

 

[ToastiestZombie]

If you took a lot of the things said in this thread and replaced bronies with girl gamers it would sound a whole lot more sexist. Just an observation.

OT: No, they're not challenging traditional masculine values. Watching a show aimed for girls instead of men, playing games instead of playing with dolls, wearing dresses instead of jeans and a t-shirt just means you personally like those things.
I hate how everything needs to have some sort of social movement behind it, no matter how trivial. You can't be a guy who likes a show, you have to be a brony fighting traditional masculine values. You can't be a girl who likes games, you have to be a feminist fighting traditional feminine values. My philosophy in life for pretty much anything is "If it doesn't hurt people, and is consensual (and you aren't being an annoying asshole) then go ahead and do what you want.

 

[V da Mighty Taco]

OP, you're right! Our perception of masculine and feminine ideals changes every few decades. I myself consider MLP the best thing that a man can enjoy.

Spoiler

When there are ton of pictures and a few videos of male fans cumming on MLP toys/doll and pictures...There's even a flash game where you can fuck raindow dash...I don't think so

Rule 34 exists for EVRYTHING. Ponies are by no means the weirdest thing for people to fantasize about.

Spare me from that rule 34 jargon. There are people who actually fancy them sexually explicitly as characters not the fact they might have a pair of tits and a hole drawn on.

And your point is? There's also Rule #40 - if it exists, there is a fetish for it - and is heavily tied to Rule #34. Doesn't mean that those who wanna actually fuck ze poniez are even close to the majority or that they're not seen as oddballs by most bronies. Just look at how much crap tiarawhy (a known R34 brony) gets or how much the fandom ridiculed that one infamous Lyra plush. Most of us actually don't like pony porn at all, contrary to what you may think.

 

[Quadocky]

I don't think Bronies really challenge masculine values because at a certain level I see the same debase overt sexualization of the characters in a way that defines the creepiness of other fandoms.

Or rather, employ blatant misogyny while identifying as a 'brony' (which, while probably rare) is still one of those things you just look at and verbally mutter "What the F***"

So all in all, white guy nerds being white guy nerds.

The problem I have I guess is that bronies seem to act like they are doing something taboo which is Watching a show for GIRRLLLSSS as if television programming for girls is somehow bad or something? Or more like "EVEN THOUGH ITS LITTLE GIRLS it offers enough notoriety for us straight white nerds to enjoy."

EDIT: of course this is only one perspective, I mean, sometimes I see this weird attitude that is like they are somehow liberating it from its intended audience or something.

 

[V da Mighty Taco]

If you took a lot of the things said in this thread and replaced bronies with girl gamers it would sound a whole lot more sexist. Just an observation.

OT: No, they're not challenging traditional masculine values. Watching a show aimed for girls instead of men, playing games instead of playing with dolls, wearing dresses instead of jeans and a t-shirt just means you personally like those things.
I hate how everything needs to have some sort of social movement behind it, no matter how trivial. You can't be a guy who likes a show, you have to be a brony fighting traditional masculine values. You can't be a girl who likes games, you have to be a feminist fighting traditional feminine values. My philosophy in life for pretty much anything is "If it doesn't hurt people, and is consensual (and you aren't being an annoying asshole) then go ahead and do what you want.

I actually follow a very similar philosophy, minus the annoying asshole bit due to what's annoying being highly subjective and wildly varying from person-to-person.

Anyways, a person doesn't actively have to be trying to fight traditional values in order to actually be affecting them. My point earlier was that the whole brony fandom is just one small part of an overall societal shift in gender roles and traditional values but that we're fairly minute compared to the movements that actually seek to try to change things, such as the LBGT movement. Guys liking a little girls cartoon or women playing video games is changing what is seen as socially acceptable to some degree, even if that's not the point of it. Still, they're not affecting things to the point that they should be seeing themselves as actually part of a meaningful social movement, and you're right that somebody doing something just because they enjoy it shouldn't automatically be seen as them trying to be some sort of freedom fighter (for a lack of a better term).

 

[V da Mighty Taco]

I don't think Bronies really challenge masculine values because at a certain level I see the same debase overt sexualization of the characters in a way that defines the creepiness of other fandoms.

Or rather, employ blatant misogyny while identifying as a 'brony' (which, while probably rare) is still one of those things you just look at and verbally mutter "What the F***"

So all in all, white guy nerds being white guy nerds.

The problem I have I guess is that bronies seem to act like they are doing something taboo which is Watching a show for GIRRLLLSSS as if television programming for girls is somehow bad or something? Or more like "EVEN THOUGH ITS LITTLE GIRLS it offers enough notoriety for us straight white nerds to enjoy."

EDIT: of course this is only one perspective, I mean, sometimes I see this weird attitude that is like they are somehow liberating it from its intended audience or something.

This comes down to the issue that, well, a grown man liking a show for little girls is seen as pretty taboo, especially outside of the interwebz. The whole hyper-defensive attitude some bronies have stems almost entirely from this, and it's only been recently that places like here and 4chan have generally grown to accept their existence without immediately condemning them, let alone how the real world treats it.

EDIT: My 400th post is a double post. Sorry 'bout that.

 

[GeneralFungi]

Do we really need to allways stick to adult stuff if we are adults? I dont think so and MLP is not like watching a barbie movie...

'No! Because I am an adult! Adults watch adult TV and kids watch kids tv! Because we're adults!'

It's the exact same reason children try to sneak into watching films that are rated too high for them to watch and part of the reason they like to play mature rated games. Some people always feel the need to reinforce that they are mature, even in their leisure time. Ironically I view it as very childish behavior.

Personally I recognize the show as good, but not so good that I would proclaim myself a brony and make sure to watch every episode religiously. Some of them are a bit too fanatic for me but I'll let them keep on doing what they want to do. I'm fine with it personally.

 

[Duncan Belfast]

Yes.

To properly answer the question, we have to go back to one of the core ideas behind MLP:FiM:
"Girly" or "feminine" does not have to mean "stupid", "bad", or "inferior".

Right now, if a girl wants to enjoy masculine things, she's generally seen as a tomboy. However, if a boy wants to enjoy feminine things, he's looked down upon, seen as weak, and often called "gay". Some people have even called us mentally ill for enjoying something that we're "not suposed to". Lauren Faust (the show's executive producer) herself has said on DA that girly things are regarded with so much contempt. There's this mindset that if something is targeted at girls, it's going to be shallow, condescending, and not very interesting. MLP:FiM challenged that mindset head-on.

I think the main hook that kept people interested was that they were surprised by just how good it was, despite being based on one of the girliest franchises on the planet. Here was this show, targeted at little girls, and it had interesting, likeable characters, good writing, a good sense of humour, and even world-building. The idea that something made specifically for girls could have a wider appeal was actually a foreign concept to us. So then came the realization that just because something is girly, it isn't necessarily bad.

We were all scared at first. "Oh God, what is happening to us?". But we stopped, and took a look at ourselves. Liking this show hadn't turned us gay. Our penises were still attached. We could still drive stick. Those of us who were in the military hadn't lost all of their training. We didn't suddenly lose our ability to do and enjoy "boy stuff". We could still be as masculine as ever. We just also enjoyed this one feminine thing. Which lead to the second realization, which I'll let Paarthurnax explain:

"What is better Dovahkiin? To preserve one's masculinity by eliminating one's femininity, or to have one's masculinity endure and coexist with one's femininity?"

There are reasons why we try to get other people to watch the show. We aren't out to actively annoy people. We just think that, for a number of reasons, this show is worth sharing. The biggest reason is that we enjoy it, and that's what people do when they enjoy things: they share them with others. I also think that, whether we realize it or not, watching the show has altered our perception of gender values. So, maybe on a subconscious level, we want to share our realization with others. However, as 4chan, Fox News and others have shown us, this is an idea that a lot of people aren't ready to embrace.

And all this is an unintended byproduct of us enjoying pretty ponies making friends and going on adventures.

 

[Abomination]

]Yes because male bronies are not known for being terribly masculine

Baseless Generalisations.

Hardly. Of all the bronies that are publicized and the type of people who attended Pony/Bronycon I can say with full certainty that the average male there did not exhibit particular signs of masculinity.

and it has nothing to do with how they like My Little Pony or not, it is the other factors. Factors like joining some pseudo-club on the internet

Not terribly relevant since you yourself joined The Escapist community so you could discuss video games.

And that is not one of my masculine traits, I never said this site was masculine.

discussing a cartoon with fanatical devotion on the internet

Pony chat here on the Escapist talks about pony significantly less than other topics, since we already know that we like the show, we're in the user group after all. We talk politics, video games, warhammer vs halo happens a lot, etc.[/quote]The entire "movement" involves discussing ponies on the internet, an act that is not masculine at all.

the average and stereotypical brony (ignoring their appreciation for a cartoon aimed at girls) does not conjure the image of a masculine male.

In your mind sure, but again that's hardly an objective viewpoint you are pushing as fact.

Not just in my mind, in many peoples' because the average brony is simply not very masculine.

 

[Abomination]

So all in all, white guy nerds being white guy nerds.

Which I think, we all can agree, is not a very masculine thing to do.

 

[Radoh]

]Yes because male bronies are not known for being terribly masculine

Baseless Generalisations.

Hardly. Of all the bronies that are publicized and the type of people who attended Pony/Bronycon I can say with full certainty that the average male there did not exhibit particular signs of masculinity.

Because you've been to the cons and have seen all the bronies that are publicised right?
Here's a picture of a well-known brony who goes to cons and is known by the name Dustykat.

So this man here goes to the cons, makes music, draws ponies and is well publicised, you asserting more baseless claims saying guys like Dustykat aren't manly because they watch a show is ridiculous.

and it has nothing to do with how they like My Little Pony or not, it is the other factors. Factors like joining some pseudo-club on the internet

Not terribly relevant since you yourself joined The Escapist community so you could discuss video games.

And that is not one of my masculine traits, I never said this site was masculine.

Again, terribly irrelevant as you are asserting Bronies aren't masculine because they joined a group.

discussing a cartoon with fanatical devotion on the internet

Pony chat here on the Escapist talks about pony significantly less than other topics, since we already know that we like the show, we're in the user group after all. We talk politics, video games, warhammer vs halo happens a lot, etc.

The entire "movement" involves discussing ponies on the internet, an act that is not masculine at all.

So therefore all bronies are unmanly because a trait they have isn't typically considered masculine. And since you joined a site that is not typically associated with manliness than you are not manly as well, because apparently a man needs to be manly 100% of the time in order to be considered masculine.

the average and stereotypical brony (ignoring their appreciation for a cartoon aimed at girls) does not conjure the image of a masculine male.

In your mind sure, but again that's hardly an objective viewpoint you are pushing as fact.

Not just in my mind, in many peoples' because the average brony is simply not very masculine.

Baseless generalisations, citation needed since you are asserting this as fact.