Do gamers have the balls to force a crash???

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EHKOS

Madness to my Methods
Feb 28, 2010
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The only reason I would like to initiate a crash is for the devs and publishers to check their perspectives. A reboot if you will. Maybe we'll finally get some damn innovation in here. Maybe I'm just nostalgic for platformers with overworlds, or if I'm just desperate to see some color and ridiculousness in my shooters. But I'm getting less and less interested in newer games. I'm even sitting out this console gen because nothing I see interested me at all.
 

MysticSlayer

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Apr 14, 2013
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Eclectic Dreck said:
MysticSlayer said:
So, let me get this straight: You desire the job loss and livelihood loss of potentially hundreds of thousands of people all because the boss of some of those people decided to follow a business model you just assume is wrong because you, personally, don't feel like paying as much money as they are asking for for all the content? That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever and reeks of either complete inconsideration or just ignorance to the impact the crash will have for those in the video game industry and even those outside of it.
When a company follows a business model that is actively hostile to my desires as a consumer, why would I root for their success? That only ensures I will continue getting undesirable offers.
I'm not saying you have to buy products you don't feel are worth the price, and if a company can't make products that consumers want at the price they are charging all while refusing to change at all, then I have no problem with that company failing. It is unfortunate that people will be out of work, but that is risk. The problem I have is that gamers are practically wishing for a crash at this point, deluding themselves in thinking that a crash will fix the mentality of business professionals in the long run (it won't), even to the point of refusing to try working with developers and publishers to make these systems work. Instead, they prefer asking questions about whether or not we are willing to force a crash without ever bothering to consider whether or not the current model can be used for good, and they also fail to consider those in and out of the gaming industry completely innocent of any "corrupt" business models, or do you honestly think that a multi-billion dollar industry's collapse won't affect the rest of the economy in some way?

I have, to this point, defended DLC fairly strongly for any of a host of reasons. But when the business of making games is so disastrously costly that selling millions of copies at sixty dollars a piece aren't enough to qualify as a "Success" requiring new revenue streams to be profitable, I'd say that the business model is broken and in an industry where this is widespread, some sort of market reset is all but inevitable.
How does that show the business model is broken? Where do you imagine these bloated development costs are coming from? It is the desire of major companies to live up to the AAA standards that we, as gamers, have set for them. We ask for the better technology. We ask for all the voice work and cinematics. We ask for a plethora of content in a near bug-free game. Even if we don't directly ask for all that stuff, our standards of what is "good" and "bad" and our constant whining about this or that constantly shows that we value high production with tons of content all in a highly stable game. Maybe the people here aren't as up tight about that kind of stuff, but the average gamer is. And that's all before you consider other costs like advertising to reach that average gamer. Do you honestly think that companies can fill that order without development costs skyrocketing?

Companies don't act completely independent of how we spend our money or what we demand. Sure, that doesn't remove them from any responsibility, but at the same time removing responsibility from gamers and then blaming the business model entirely is ridiculous. If we demand that they spend more and more money at a rate that can't be made up by growth in the consumer base, then how do we have any defense when they start demanding more from us in return?
 

Olas

Hello!
Dec 24, 2011
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I won't lie, a part of me deep down likes the idea of an industry crash as some form of retribution for all the BS AAA developers have tried to pull. But the rational side of me knows it would just be bad for everyone including me, and we'd just be better off if the industry improved and corrected course rather than plunging to the bottom of the sea.

So I guess to answer your question more directly: it's not about having balls, it's about having an invested self interest in keeping the industry afloat.
 

idarkphoenixi

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May 2, 2011
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Games are already too expensive, which is why I never buy brand new "AAA" titles. I'm never going to unload £40 on a game, especially when it's on PC and doesn't have anywhere near the same distribution costs as a physical copy.
Studio's are getting greedy with DLC/Micro-transactions but they've been greedy for a while thinking they can charge the exact same for a digital copy as a physical one. They even defend it saying that putting it on a discount would 'cheapen' the brand.

Anyway, I don't get any enjoyment out of today's mass market games. You play them for 5-6 hours, get bored and never go back to them, that's simply not worth any more than £10-£15 to me. Indy games have given me more playtime than I've ever had and they're dead-cheap.
 

lacktheknack

Je suis joined jewels.
Jan 19, 2009
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What I've gathered from this thread: The average gamer thinks a crash would somehow be beneficial in this day and age, and/or they're so malevolent that they actively wish for a complete economic disaster with thousands of layoffs because the products they've been offered (and often can't be assed to research, there's no excuse to be burned nowadays) don't meet their often unmatchable standards.

Good to know.
 

Atmos Duality

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Mar 3, 2010
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Thoralata said:
There's a Youtuber I follow who had this to say on the prospect of a second crash.
*snip*
S/He got a few details wrong, but overall they're correct.

lacktheknack said:
What I've gathered from this thread: The average gamer thinks a crash would somehow be beneficial in this day and age, and/or they're so malevolent that they actively wish for a complete economic disaster with thousands of layoffs because the products they've been offered (and often can't be assed to research, there's no excuse to be burned nowadays) don't meet their often unmatchable standards.

Good to know.
From what I've gathered, the average gamer doesn't post on internet message boards either.
 

Erttheking

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Oct 5, 2011
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bloodmage2 said:
you sheep
No. No no no no no no no. Please go back and restate your point without insulting someone for having a different opinion from you.
 

someonehairy-ish

Dead account please delete!!! @mods
Mar 15, 2009
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I mostly play indies these days or just buy stuff off Steam sales. I'm not sure who's actually buying all the launch date AAA crap any more, but it ain't me.
 

FieryTrainwreck

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Apr 16, 2010
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So, let me get this straight: You desire the job loss and livelihood loss of potentially hundreds of thousands of people all because the boss of some of those people decided to follow a business model you just assume is wrong because you, personally, don't feel like paying as much money as they are asking for for all the content? That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever and reeks of either complete inconsideration or just ignorance to the impact the crash will have for those in the video game industry and even those outside of it.
I don't exactly agree with the OP, but the constant appeal of "what about the jobs!" is starting to really piss me off. You can use this reasoning to justify practically anything - and that's precisely what horribly greedy and destructive corporations do on a daily basis. We can't drill for oil in the middle of this nature preserve? What about the jobs! You won't give us a billion dollars of tax payer money for a stadium? What about the jobs! You want us to dismantle profit-driven healthcare because it provides crap care for exorbitant prices? What about the jobs!

We shouldn't prop up bullshit business models and/or industries solely for the sake of preserving jobs. Down that road lies unbound waste and wealth disparity. If something is simply bad or stupid, it should go away. The money spent on it will be spent elsewhere. The jobs it created will be created by said "elsewhere". If this happens to employ or empower a different set of people, maybe it is their turn to be employed/empowered. If your particular society doesn't offer adequate support and safety nets for people transitioning from one job or field to another, that's on your particular society.

Or we could all just continue racing right to the bottom because we need them damn jobs!
 

TelHybrid

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May 16, 2009
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For every person who creates a forum thread against microtransactions, or other negative things in the game industry like standardisation of genres (abundance of call of duty clones), or suggests a boycott, there about 10 people who will buy consoles, buy games like CoD and FIFA and Forza, and pay tens of pounds/dollars in microtransactions for extra players and guns/maps and cars and tracks, and really not give a shit.

There is no chance with the current state of video games at the moment of a market crash, even with some big "gamer movement" because the CoD/Fifa casuals are here to stay.

Oh and I've seen a couple of comments on this thread suggesting that PC doesn't have the microtransaction bullshit. That's stupid. PC is where is thrives most. Look at fee-to-play games. There's loads of them. The most popular of those currently being MOBAs.

Feel free not to support any practices that you find unacceptable. I don't support DRM without an offline mode. Just don't be so naive to think that there's any chance of a games market crash. Remember, for every 1 'hardcore gamer', there's 10 'filthy casuals'.
 

Ruzinus

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May 20, 2010
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I think we could win the war against microtransanctions without a crash. We'd be much better off buying the hell out of games that don't use them than impossibly banding together and not buying games at all.

Also, as noted, the latter option is impossible.
 

MammothBlade

It's not that I LIKE you b-baka!
Oct 12, 2011
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Fonejackerjon said:
Next gen games will cost upwards of $100, why? Microtransactions, in a word, and if you think they can be 'ignored' your playing into their hands more and more of the core part of the game will be behind paywalls as well as the $60 starting price, of course it always starts off small and easily ignored little 'extras' but if you keep bending over for the publishers you deserve it.

So my question is this, when is enough, enough? Do gamers have the guts to force what is so greatly needed, another video game crash?...discuss.
You speak as if gamers are some oppressed underclass. They're not. If anything, a lot of games are underpriced due to spiralling costs and longer development processes. If at launch, you want a full game with immersive open-world, top of the line graphics, you have no choice but to save up for it. Perhaps you can't buy new games by the bucketload anymore.

I think this is just another case of trying to have your cake, and eat it. Games development is not what it was 10 years ago. You have alternatives to shelling out £40 for a brand new console game, no-one is forcing you to buy it, or the DLC. And this ultimately results in more content. I have never had a problem with legitimate DLC.

Causing an industry crash on purpose would be the stupidest, most juvenile thing that "gamers" as a whole could do. It would send out the wrong message about the games industry. It would put off potential new developers, sending talent elsewhere, perhaps to develop for social networking and mobiles. You have plenty of choice. Choice to play indie games, choice to play from a backlog of games (gog.com); choice not to buy DLC, choice to play free to play games.

You get what you pay for. Complaining about games being carved into little DLC chunks? When was the last time an AAA game asked for the full price up front and then said you couldn't progress any further without paying money?
 

Altorin

Jack of No Trades
May 16, 2008
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you can't force a crash any more then you can force not-a-crash. Mass Market will do what mass market will do, and whether or not that leads to a crash relies on more factors then just "the guts" of the consumers.
 

MammothBlade

It's not that I LIKE you b-baka!
Oct 12, 2011
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Another point.

If you look at the factors of the crash, a lot of it can be attributed to the unique circumstances of the gaming market in 1983. It was still a new market. For companies, it was a gold rush. A lot of companies wanted a slice of the pie, and over-saturated with their iterations of the games console. Video games were still a kind of children's toy, you have to understand.

It was much easier to crash a new, untested medium.

It was a perfect storm, and for something on that scale to happen again, there would have to be a serious market fault, perhaps an externality which impacts upon the equilibrium in the market. Not everyone cares about any of that stuff you mentioned. Most don't, in fact. The CoD-playing, Madden/Fifa-buying masses will keep on buying in their hordes. So will a lot of people who are into slightly less mainstream games, but don't care about game politics or the industry. Gamers are not one monolithic voting bloc anymore, but we can count on loyal cash cows to keep buying that yearly shoot em up. Not going to effect change that way, I'm afraid. That will just have the opposite effect.
 

Pessimismus

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Nov 9, 2009
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Considering how I'm currently studying to eventually join this industry, I'd really rather try to avoid a big crash, as that might not be very beneficial to my job security. I think, as others have said, the best way to handle this is to avoid games with micro-transactions and all that unpleasantness and stick to games from developers that don't do these things (although in most cases it's probably the publisher who forced them into the game). Over the past few years, I've taken to buying about 3 or 4 indie games for every major title and so far I really love it. It has introduced me to a whole host of new concepts and ideas and it's hardly common to see quick cash-grabs there.