Do members of the military get too much respect? What profession do you respect the most?

[Peteron]

I think if anyone deserves the most respect, it was the drafted soldiers who had to fight against their will. Most soldiers today just don't seem to know what they are fighting for anymore. I think the people who deserve respect are the ones who believe in what they are fighting for, and are not there just "to shoot a gun." Soldiers have seen some terrifying things, and I know people like our grandfathers deserve respect for their duties, voluntary or not.

 

[ProtoformX]

No. No we do not get too much respect. Actors, doctors (responsible for 70% of homicides in the United States due to negligence), politicians, and firefighters (you'll all probably be shocked, but it's true. Those guys sit around the firehouse 2-3 days a week, and then have 2-3 full weeks off. Their line of work isn't even THAT dangerous either. No worse than a cop. 9/11 gave the Nation an unnatural perception of how dangerous Firefighters have it, and how much they 'sacrifice'.) do.

The coversation you described may occur in SOME places of the United States, but not where I live. I (and my fellow Soldiers) only get condescending statements, and worse than dirt treatment in this liberal state.

We deploy for 12 months (count em) and even spend most of our time training away from our families when we are in the CONUS.

Let's not forget that we're sent over-seas, asked to fight a war, and accomplish a mission... And then criticized every step of the way.

People of America: Do you want the job done? Or do you just want it to look like we're getting the job done? We've made it look like we're getting the job done for ten years now. How much longer do you want us to keep dancing this dance?

Yea, fuck the doctors. It's not like we need them or anything. :/

Also, I'd like to see a source for that 70% of homicides bit. Because I don't believe it. And what you're calling negligence is more than likely simply a ba situation. Atleast in the UK, actual negligence is fairly low.

You're absolutely right. I misspoke.

http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm

http://www.naturodoc.com/library/public_health/doctors_cause_death.htm

14,748 murders a year

250,000 deaths from negligence a year.

Doctors are overpaid.

The first link has nothing to do with Doctors and mortality rates. The second link is just bullshit blame throwing.

Have you any idea how complicated it is to diagnose and treat illness? It doesn't come with a handy chart that narrows it down perfectly each time. Not being able to save a patient =/= negligence or murder. Even though they get tried for it.

And most of the cases of mixing up medication or misdiagnosis is down to overworking. Doctors and nurses are hellishly overworked.

The first link is to crime reports and statistics. Murders included. I was admitting, and demonstrating my error in my original statement.

The second link (if you cared to read the sources) is taken from reports of actual documented negligence. Not reports of negligence, or "unavoidable negligence", or assumed negligence.

Learn to read, and you wouldnt't have been so confused as to make such an asinine statement.

I did read it, and you need to drop the attitude.

What is reported or tried isn't an accurate representation of the actual level of negligence. Doctors are constantly being found guilty of negligence regardless of whether their job could have been done better under the circumstances or not.

You can thank your ridiculous 'where there's blame there's a claim' culture for that.

You can also thank that ethos for the amount of refused surgeries and treatments. Surgeons now refuse to take on cases with high mortality rates because a death means a hearing and a possible trial. Not to mention a permanent blemish on their record. Which is why so many simple operations are taken on and why your uncle Bob won't be getting that Whipple procedure. Because he's slightly overweight and that ups the chance of mortality on an already risky OP.

Feel good man? Wanna talk some more about things you're clearly not so well versed on?

Sure, lets blame the people trying to save lives when something goes wrong, that'll have no repercussions. :/

Oh wow... I can't even being to list the number of things wrong with your statement.

1. You drop the attitude. I was just educating you, bub.

2. Maybe that's how it's done in the UK (or wherever you're from) but doctors over here have VERY good lawyers. They do NOT get in trouble for things they didn't do very often. Most of the time, they actually DON'T get in trouble when they should.

3. ANY doctor who refuses to do a surgery or operation is VERY CLEARLY NOT doing his or her best to help people. You said yourself, they care more about the potential black spot on their record. They are very clearly putting themselves before the people they're "saving."

One of the core Army Values on the other hand is Selfless Service. I (and any good Soldier) live those values. I put my subordinates, the mission, and my collegues before my own wellfare 24/7. You talk about saving lives? I would jump out of cover any day under enemy fire if it meant saving the lives of my men, or the civillians who get caught in the crossfire. Know why? Cause I know my boys would do the same. Some of the guys I serve with are scum bags. You find them in any profession. Get some booze in them during downtime or leave, and you have nightmare on your hands. But their actions in the line of duty are beyond question.

Feel good? Wanna keep running your mouth about things you pretend to know more than you do about?

I'm sure everything is just dandy in your country. It aint over here.

1) Don't say 'Bub' you're not wolverine and it isn't cool. And you can't educate people without first having knowledge yourself.

2) Bullshit, regardless of how good their lawyers are. When you get tried 12 times a year because you couldn't save old Nora from popping her cloggs. Eventually something slips through. Sheer statistics mean that a lot of people who don't deserve it get done for it.

3) *woosh* that was the sound of the point, it was flying right over your head.

The reason a surgeon cannot afford to risk too many deaths on the table is because doing so results in board hearings, lawsuits and possible loss of jobs. And blame throwers like you are solely to blame for that.

Sometimes a person dies, there's nothing that could have been done. Yet for some reason everyone is obsessed with blaming someone, which usually results in legal action.

yadda yadda yadda, military this, hoorah that.

Oh, and a final point. Yea, everything isn't alright. And that's my point. And you and every other Jonny know nothing who're playing the blame game are only adding to that.

So yea, walk a mile in another man's clogs before you accuse them of being a little to cushy.

Bub (yes, I use it. No, it doesn't make me cool. I make IT cool. I used it before Wolverine. Welcome to real life. Everything isn't about Hollywood.)

You missed the point about five posts back. I'm through with you. If you can't understand the differences between countries (doctors get paid WAY more in the US than the UK, let alone India or less well off countries) and understand that your argument does NOT hold outside of the climate you're clearly accustomed to, you aren't worth the time it takes to educate you.

But while I'm at it (I clearly never quit on the lost causes. Someone's gotta keep trying.) consider this... I am Combat Life Saver certified. I am expected to do the job of an EMT (maybe the BASIC duties of the doctor.... Obviously not brain surgery) in the middle of nowhere, while under fire. THAT ALONE should net me something RELATIVELY close (under, but not by too much) to that of a entry level doctor's job. Right? Of course not. And it doesn't. But it's something to consider.

Stick your head back in the sand. My clogs come with 60+ lbs of gear, and it's more like 25 miles. Not "a" mile. Also, a time limit. So it's more like running than walking. I know that's a lot of numbers and stuff, but suffice to say... You couldn't do it. Good day.

(It's Hooah. Not Hoorah, or Oorah. Hooah came first. "Oorah" is the sound a Marine makes when he tries to say "Hooah" with a Sailers **** in his mouth. Semper Fi, and much love to my USMC comrades who are about to get all worked up about that joke.)

 

[Frenzy107]

I personally think our Vets don't get enough respect. As some have said in previous posts, most of the military is either ridiculed or even completely disrespected. Most (and yes there are always the people who sign up because they are crazy and cant do anything else) choose to offer up the ultimate sacrifice (their lives) in order to protect the way of life and the civilians of their country. And most of them are paid very little, the military is only good with pay once you get to about officer level and even then it depends upon your branch.

Now I am fortunate enough to have had both my parents in the military (go Air Force!) with my father being a fighter pilot and my mom being a doctor. So I see how both are heroes. BOTH Doctors (and all medical occupations) and the Military deserve our respect. Without them, our lives wouldn't resemble what we have today.

 

[JoesshittyOs]

They actively put their lives in danger for others, so no, I don't think they get too much respect.

The job they are doing on the other hand (although I agree with both the Iraq and Afghanistan War), should actively be questioned.

Basically, war is right. Not the people put into it.

 

[rurin]

Not at all. The military is respected and rightfully so. There's no rule for it, people just do it, as you should for anyone who risks their life to carry out the orders of the country, even if they don't agree with it.
Anyone willing to risk their life to do what they believe is right earns my respect, even if I don't agree with them. (I don't include those who just do stupid actions cause they want to be the next viral video on youtube or something just because they're...well, stupid)
Outside the millitary my higher priorities of respect are police, firefighters, paramedics. I say that because the paramedics don't put themselves in danger, however, they perform wonders and save lives.

Paramedics actually do put themselves in danger. Far more than firefighters. EMTs are the ones who don't put themsleves in danger.

Yeah, sorry about that mix up. >_< it's been a long day... -_-
Rest assured that I do respect all medical service men and women, but those who will put themselves in danger to help other people will always have more respect from me then someone who doesn't.

I'm not sure where you may be from, but I know that as an EMT, anyone saying that my line of work is safe doesn't know what they are talking about. I'm lucky enough to not be a victim myself, however I have seen and been in incidents where an unruly patient has attacked a colleague in transport. Now I'm not saying it's going as far as being in the military, I support the men and women who fight for my rights. However to belittle someone based off of your ignorance isn't excusable. Research your facts a little better in the future, and maybe you'll find that things aren't quite the way you believe. Just so you know, the difference between a paramedic and an EMT is usually just a matter of invasive vs non-invasive procedures in transport. Whether a person serves as a police officer, a medic, an EMT, your technical profession doesn't matter when an angry human is determined to do harm and you're in reach.

Now as for all this doctor talk I must commend you on this:

No. No we do not get too much respect. Actors, doctors (responsible for 70% of homicides in the United States due to negligence), politicians, and firefighters (you'll all probably be shocked, but it's true. Those guys sit around the firehouse 2-3 days a week, and then have 2-3 full weeks off. Their line of work isn't even THAT dangerous either. No worse than a cop. 9/11 gave the Nation an unnatural perception of how dangerous Firefighters have it, and how much they 'sacrifice'.) do.

The coversation you described may occur in SOME places of the United States, but not where I live. I (and my fellow Soldiers) only get condescending statements, and worse than dirt treatment in this liberal state.

We deploy for 12 months (count em) and even spend most of our time training away from our families when we are in the CONUS.

Let's not forget that we're sent over-seas, asked to fight a war, and accomplish a mission... And then criticized every step of the way.

People of America: Do you want the job done? Or do you just want it to look like we're getting the job done? We've made it look like we're getting the job done for ten years now. How much longer do you want us to keep dancing this dance?

Yea, fuck the doctors. It's not like we need them or anything. :/

Also, I'd like to see a source for that 70% of homicides bit. Because I don't believe it. And what you're calling negligence is more than likely simply a ba situation. Atleast in the UK, actual negligence is fairly low.

You're absolutely right. I misspoke.

http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm

http://www.naturodoc.com/library/public_health/doctors_cause_death.htm

14,748 murders a year

250,000 deaths from negligence a year.

Doctors are overpaid.

The first link has nothing to do with Doctors and mortality rates. The second link is just bullshit blame throwing.

Have you any idea how complicated it is to diagnose and treat illness? It doesn't come with a handy chart that narrows it down perfectly each time. Not being able to save a patient =/= negligence or murder. Even though they get tried for it.

And most of the cases of mixing up medication or misdiagnosis is down to overworking. Doctors and nurses are hellishly overworked.

The first link is to crime reports and statistics. Murders included. I was admitting, and demonstrating my error in my original statement.

The second link (if you cared to read the sources) is taken from reports of actual documented negligence. Not reports of negligence, or "unavoidable negligence", or assumed negligence.

Learn to read, and you wouldnt't have been so confused as to make such an asinine statement.

I did read it, and you need to drop the attitude.

What is reported or tried isn't an accurate representation of the actual level of negligence. Doctors are constantly being found guilty of negligence regardless of whether their job could have been done better under the circumstances or not.

You can thank your ridiculous 'where there's blame there's a claim' culture for that.

You can also thank that ethos for the amount of refused surgeries and treatments. Surgeons now refuse to take on cases with high mortality rates because a death means a hearing and a possible trial. Not to mention a permanent blemish on their record. Which is why so many simple operations are taken on and why your uncle Bob won't be getting that Whipple procedure. Because he's slightly overweight and that ups the chance of mortality on an already risky OP.

Feel good man? Wanna talk some more about things you're clearly not so well versed on?

Sure, lets blame the people trying to save lives when something goes wrong, that'll have no repercussions. :/

I couldn't agree more. The reality is that and simply that. The people are far too willing to call a person a doctor and hide behind a veil of that title while forgetting they're a human being. Yes it is a doctor's job to take care of a patient, but is a caregiver clairvoyant? Nope. They are simply another human being who took the responsibility of being the one to try their damnedest to take care of you or your family. Mistakes happen, unavoidable accidents occur, nature can be stronger than research and technology. Unfortunately, when these things do happen the only thing the majority of people think is to lay the fault on the caregivers. Even I have to have insurance to cover me against anything that could happen in the field. When a medical professional fails they become an irresponsible doctor or surgeon or whatever you want to blame in the situation. People forget that they are blaming a human, humans get scared, they forget, they miss things, they make mistakes. Anyone here who has never ever made a mistake can put me down all they like, but the reality is everyone has made mistakes. Medical Professionals are just the ones who are burned at the stake for theirs. So remember, next time you file a paper wrong, or call a wrong number, or whatever screw ups you may be making at work, just remember that you can just explain it away instead of facing a lawsuit for your humanity.



And since this is a thread about the soldiers I will finish on a very basic note. The soldiers are amazing for what they do. I know a few, and while they may not be the greatest of people they still deserve respect, now here's the clincher, they deserve as much respect as everyone else. If a person is a good person and honestly works to make a living and contribute to society, then they deserve respect. Be they soldiers, EMT's, teachers, firefighters, cooks, janitors, carpenters, or caregivers, they are giving something to the community and are just trying to make a living doing so, so next time you want to look down on a janitor, or blame a doctor, or even look up to a soldier, there is only one thing to keep in mind: We're all human, for better or for worse, and we all live with all the things that are a part of humanity. So show some respect and do your part as well.

 

[Xin Baixiang]

I've never really been swayed by the whole "soldiers are heroes" argument.

If they were directly protecting their homeland against foreign invaders, then yes, that would be pretty damn heroic. If WW3 started, then every last soldier who fought to protect my country would earn my eternal respect. Hell, I'd probably enlist myself.

But soldiers fighting in current conflicts? I don't wish to sound ungrateful here, but somebody who goes to far-flung countries to kill the natives and is driven more by the pay than a pressing need to protect the motherland... isn't that the definition of a mercenary?

Sure, if that's why you joined up. Some of us silly bastards signed up before 9/11. We signed up because we believed that the call to defend our nation is an honorable one. We believed that by stepping up and raising our right hand we would be involved in securing your right to sit there and second guess our reasons for enlisting/gaining a commission.

You're conflating military servicemembers with politics. I don't choose the wars, I just choose to go where my commander in chief says.

 

[Ramare]

Perhaps. I mean, there's nothing wrong with respecting someone who has/had a, let's face it, totally badass job killing people for living; but sometimes it gets out of hand with the ones who pretentiously demand you automatically respect them, for the actual military people or other people, or for those in the military that use it as an "I'm always right, no matter what the subject or my (probably limited) knowledge thereof." card.

As for who I respect the most? Police and all related workfields (Sheriffs, etc.), EMTs and other related fields, and the surgeons that save otherwise screwed lives every day.

 

[Volkov]

There was a thread about this maybe 1-2 months ago.

In a nutshell, yes. The blind adoration and laughable logic that is brought up to explain why everyone seems to tongue bathe soldiers just for being soldiers is, unfortunately, a massive part of modern American culture. It wouldn't be a big deal, except for the fact that this serves to streamline the process of stuffing cash into DOD's pockets while the rest of the nation is tumbling toward poverty. It also makes it a political suicide to say "We don't need our military to be many orders of magnitude stronger than #2 - just being a tiny bit stronger is enough to reduce the risk of actual conflict to being completely negligible - so we should cut down the funding by a factor of 10-20 or more".

The typical argument towards this massive respect is something along the lines of "Their profession is high risk". Thing is - first, even in the time of war, it's not even in the top 3. Second, so is knocking your head into a brick wall. Is that deserving of respect? Well, obviously, no, it's the whole "The cause of the death must be in pursuit of something that does a lot of good to people you are dying for." And this raises the next question - are any of the wars the US military has participated in since 1945 actually in pursuit of something good? I.e., are these dying service(wo)men actually serving their countries? I'd say no, and ESPECIALLY not right now.

Now, one could argue that "It's not the size of the risk that matters (i.e., it doesn't matter how low the probability of death for the cause is), it's the fact that you volunteered for it that counts." But is that really true? I mean, every single nuclear reactor operator, for example, volunteered to do what the Fukushima operators did in March when they signed up for the job - does that yield them the same respect as members of the military get? Of course not, not even remotely close. And, more importantly - I genuinely think that respect should go to those that do A LOT OF GOOD, not to those that RISK A LOT. In other words, as OP said - doctors, EMTs, reactor operators, certainly teachers... not members of the military. Because of the associated probabilities, and because of which problems facing the nation are actually serious (health care, education, energy) and which ones are not (national security).

 

[ProtoformX]

No. No we do not get too much respect. Actors, doctors (responsible for 70% of homicides in the United States due to negligence), politicians, and firefighters (you'll all probably be shocked, but it's true. Those guys sit around the firehouse 2-3 days a week, and then have 2-3 full weeks off. Their line of work isn't even THAT dangerous either. No worse than a cop. 9/11 gave the Nation an unnatural perception of how dangerous Firefighters have it, and how much they 'sacrifice'.) do.

The coversation you described may occur in SOME places of the United States, but not where I live. I (and my fellow Soldiers) only get condescending statements, and worse than dirt treatment in this liberal state.

We deploy for 12 months (count em) and even spend most of our time training away from our families when we are in the CONUS.

Let's not forget that we're sent over-seas, asked to fight a war, and accomplish a mission... And then criticized every step of the way.

People of America: Do you want the job done? Or do you just want it to look like we're getting the job done? We've made it look like we're getting the job done for ten years now. How much longer do you want us to keep dancing this dance?

Yea, fuck the doctors. It's not like we need them or anything. :/

Also, I'd like to see a source for that 70% of homicides bit. Because I don't believe it. And what you're calling negligence is more than likely simply a ba situation. Atleast in the UK, actual negligence is fairly low.

You're absolutely right. I misspoke.

http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm

http://www.naturodoc.com/library/public_health/doctors_cause_death.htm

14,748 murders a year

250,000 deaths from negligence a year.

Doctors are overpaid.

The first link has nothing to do with Doctors and mortality rates. The second link is just bullshit blame throwing.

Have you any idea how complicated it is to diagnose and treat illness? It doesn't come with a handy chart that narrows it down perfectly each time. Not being able to save a patient =/= negligence or murder. Even though they get tried for it.

And most of the cases of mixing up medication or misdiagnosis is down to overworking. Doctors and nurses are hellishly overworked.

The first link is to crime reports and statistics. Murders included. I was admitting, and demonstrating my error in my original statement.

The second link (if you cared to read the sources) is taken from reports of actual documented negligence. Not reports of negligence, or "unavoidable negligence", or assumed negligence.

Learn to read, and you wouldnt't have been so confused as to make such an asinine statement.

I did read it, and you need to drop the attitude.

What is reported or tried isn't an accurate representation of the actual level of negligence. Doctors are constantly being found guilty of negligence regardless of whether their job could have been done better under the circumstances or not.

You can thank your ridiculous 'where there's blame there's a claim' culture for that.

You can also thank that ethos for the amount of refused surgeries and treatments. Surgeons now refuse to take on cases with high mortality rates because a death means a hearing and a possible trial. Not to mention a permanent blemish on their record. Which is why so many simple operations are taken on and why your uncle Bob won't be getting that Whipple procedure. Because he's slightly overweight and that ups the chance of mortality on an already risky OP.

Feel good man? Wanna talk some more about things you're clearly not so well versed on?

Sure, lets blame the people trying to save lives when something goes wrong, that'll have no repercussions. :/

Oh wow... I can't even being to list the number of things wrong with your statement.

1. You drop the attitude. I was just educating you, bub.

2. Maybe that's how it's done in the UK (or wherever you're from) but doctors over here have VERY good lawyers. They do NOT get in trouble for things they didn't do very often. Most of the time, they actually DON'T get in trouble when they should.

3. ANY doctor who refuses to do a surgery or operation is VERY CLEARLY NOT doing his or her best to help people. You said yourself, they care more about the potential black spot on their record. They are very clearly putting themselves before the people they're "saving."

One of the core Army Values on the other hand is Selfless Service. I (and any good Soldier) live those values. I put my subordinates, the mission, and my collegues before my own wellfare 24/7. You talk about saving lives? I would jump out of cover any day under enemy fire if it meant saving the lives of my men, or the civillians who get caught in the crossfire. Know why? Cause I know my boys would do the same. Some of the guys I serve with are scum bags. You find them in any profession. Get some booze in them during downtime or leave, and you have nightmare on your hands. But their actions in the line of duty are beyond question.

Feel good? Wanna keep running your mouth about things you pretend to know more than you do about?

I'm sure everything is just dandy in your country. It aint over here.

1) Don't say 'Bub' you're not wolverine and it isn't cool. And you can't educate people without first having knowledge yourself.

2) Bullshit, regardless of how good their lawyers are. When you get tried 12 times a year because you couldn't save old Nora from popping her cloggs. Eventually something slips through. Sheer statistics mean that a lot of people who don't deserve it get done for it.

3) *woosh* that was the sound of the point, it was flying right over your head.

The reason a surgeon cannot afford to risk too many deaths on the table is because doing so results in board hearings, lawsuits and possible loss of jobs. And blame throwers like you are solely to blame for that.

Sometimes a person dies, there's nothing that could have been done. Yet for some reason everyone is obsessed with blaming someone, which usually results in legal action.

yadda yadda yadda, military this, hoorah that.

Oh, and a final point. Yea, everything isn't alright. And that's my point. And you and every other Jonny know nothing who're playing the blame game are only adding to that.

So yea, walk a mile in another man's clogs before you accuse them of being a little to cushy.

Bub (yes, I use it. No, it doesn't make me cool. I make IT cool. I used it before Wolverine. Welcome to real life. Everything isn't about Hollywood.)

You missed the point about five posts back. I'm through with you. If you can't understand the differences between countries (doctors get paid WAY more in the US than the UK, let alone India or less well off countries) and understand that your argument does NOT hold outside of the climate you're clearly accustomed to, you aren't worth the time it takes to educate you.

Stick your head back in the sand. Good day.

(It's Hooah. Not Hoorah, or Oorah. Hooah came first. "Oorah" is the sound a Marine makes when he tries to say "Hooah" with a Sailers **** in his mouth. Semper Fi, and much love to my USMC comrades who are about to get all worked up about that joke.)

Doubtful, he's been doing it since the 60's.

No shit Sherlock, of course things are different across the pond. Doesn't mean that my point is automatically invalid. Infact, it's more valid for your country. The amount of blame that gets pushed onto your doctors specifically is criminal. There isn't always blame, but your country is bound and determined to bloody well find it wherever it can.

Same could be said to you. Keep on badmouthing the doctors, it's not like you'll ever need them or anything. What with you being Wolverine.

(flippancy, ees lost art.)

I never read comic books... So, at least I brought it into the real world before Hugh Jackman. Bub.

I do agree that my country is sue happy. And it disgusts me. On the flipside, my country doesn't like to take responsibility. So there IS an active need for the lawsuit function.

Look, we're clearly comparing apples to oranges. My Mom, and a good friend who died of cancer years ago were led around in circles by doctors who were too cowardly to treat them. Cool. Doctors get this big old edumacation thang. So they get this whopping pay check. But who's gonna do their job when they actively weasel out of doing it? Are they being paid for the degree, or the actions? Again, it comes down to ACTIONS deserving respect. And to be frank, the actions of most doctors over here are not very deserving of respect.

Let's just agree to disagree. I think doctors get paid too much. You think they're overworked. I obviously disagree with that statement, but most people don't know the meaning of the word "overworked" until they've been to Ranger School. So I forgive ya.

Now, you go your way. I'll go mine. Peace be with you.

 

[ProtoformX]

There was a thread about this maybe 1-2 months ago.

In a nutshell, yes. The blind adoration and laughable logic that is brought up to explain why everyone seems to tongue bathe soldiers just for being soldiers is, unfortunately, a massive part of modern American culture. It wouldn't be a big deal, except for the fact that this serves to streamline the process of stuffing cash into DOD's pockets while the rest of the nation is tumbling toward poverty. It also makes it a political suicide to say "We don't need our military to be many orders of magnitude stronger than #2 - just being a tiny bit stronger is enough to reduce the risk of actual conflict to being completely negligible - so we should cut down the funding by a factor of 10-20 or more".

The typical argument towards this massive respect is something along the lines of "Their profession is high risk". Thing is - first, even in the time of war, it's not even in the top 3. Second, so is knocking your head into a brick wall. Is that deserving of respect? Well, obviously, no, it's the whole "The cause of the death must be in pursuit of something that does a lot of good to people you are dying for." And this raises the next question - are any of the wars the US military has participated in since 1945 actually in pursuit of something good? I.e., are these dying service(wo)men actually serving their countries? I'd say no, and ESPECIALLY not right now.

Now, one could argue that "It's not the size of the risk that matters (i.e., it doesn't matter how low the probability of death for the cause is), it's the fact that you volunteered for it that counts." But is that really true? I mean, every single nuclear reactor operator, for example, volunteered to do what the Fukushima operators did in March when they signed up for the job - does that yield them the same respect as members of the military get? Of course not, not even remotely close. And, more importantly - I genuinely think that respect should go to those that do A LOT OF GOOD, not to those that RISK A LOT. In other words, as OP said - doctors, EMTs, reactor operators, certainly teachers... not members of the military. Because of the associated probabilities, and because of which problems facing the nation are actually serious (health care, education, energy) and which ones are not (national security).

*sigh* Knock one out, another pops up.

Cash being stuffed in the DOD's pockets? Since when!? Last I checked, the military is downsizing. While sustaining two conflics. I almost didn't get paid last month. I think you need to check your facts.

 

[Greni]

I don't choose the wars, I just choose to go where my commander in chief says.

Then that's hardly your choice to make, is it?

 

[Xin Baixiang]

I don't choose the wars, I just choose to go where my commander in chief says.

Then that's hardly your choice to make, is it?

I made the choice when I raised my right hand and swore to obey the lawful orders of the officers posted above me.

Quick facts: I hated "Dubbleya" from the first. I hated what he thought he was, I hated his cocksure swagger, I hated his bullyboy attitude. He was still my CIC, and I still had to obey those lawful orders. I did my tours, I spent over ten years in before being medically discharged. I knew what I was getting into, and I knew that getting into it I may be forced to go to war.

Again, service does not equal politics, but you make a choice to be there in the US. We don't draft, and Torak's Teeth are we better for that fact.

 

[Talo_AML]

I dont really see the comparison of civilian doctors and social workers to the US Armed Forces. Sure everyone has their place and whenever they do a good job its appreciated, but deployed soldiers run the risk of death everyday. I mean...it just doesn't compare.

I respect anyone willing to die for his' or her's country, especially when its mine.

 

[Volkov]

*sigh* Knock one out, another pops up.

Cash being stuffed in the DOD's pockets? Since when!? Last I checked, the military is downsizing. While sustaining two conflics. I almost didn't get paid last month. I think you need to check your facts.

By "cash being stuffed" I am primarily referring to the overall size of the DOD budget, but specifically, to the R&D and to the enormous materiel orders that are placed yearly (don't think I am completely ignorant about this btw, just because I have a negative opinion about the system doesn't mean I didn't have to deal with it). Like you said, you DID get paid. While plenty of DOE programs (you know, the ones solving the ACTUALLY serious problem of the nation - energy) did have to shut down. Lots of people fired, etc.

There is no point in being overwhelmingly the strongest and unloading tons of money to maintain the superiority. Slightly stronger than #2 is perfectly fine. Or even being #2. I mean, we are not even in the top 10 in most things that actually count for civilians (like health care or education).

I am not suggesting to do away with defense, btw., just to massively downsize.

 

[Thaluikhain]

There is no point in being overwhelmingly the strongest and unloading tons of money to maintain the superiority. Slightly stronger than #2 is perfectly fine. Or even being #2. I mean, we are not even in the top 10 in most things that actually count for civilians (like health care or education).

Er...as much as I don't agree with it, that's not to say there is no point in maintaining a dominance over the rest of the world.

 

[radioactive lemur]

Doctors deserve 100x more respect than hired guns.