Do We Live in a Computer Simulation?

Hoplon

Jabbering Fool
Mar 31, 2010
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a.stewart said:
*A big snip*
Yes, but one of the laws of nature is that you cannot measure everything. That neural impulses can take shape in the brain before we express them is not even surprising never mind evidence of a clockwork brain. The point is that they don't know why you are going to pick the button you do.

Free will isn't an added complication, it's the result of a complex system. Nothing is perfectly predictable, even the prediction of the motion of planets and stars is open to error correction.
 

DoPo

"You're not cleared for that."
Jan 30, 2012
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wombat_of_war said:
anyone else pondering the thought of their sims realising they are living in a game?
Pretty much the plot of Yahtzee's book Mogworld.

cloroxbb said:
It would be odd tho, since then wouldnt we be considered Artificial Intelligence? If we can think at this level then those who created us are at a much much higher level than we.
Heh, "higher level" - when we rise up and start the robot apocalypse, they'll only emit high pitched screams.

a.stewart said:
It's very possible to have a computer simulation of a universe, although this universe probably not one, for many reasons.
Actually, it's not really that implausible. Erm, maybe if you think about it in general, rather than in the context of the article.

a.stewart said:
Firstly, there doesn't seem to be any evidence here that shows that our minds are connected to something external, although now that I think of it, perhaps there doesn't need to be.
Yes, there doesn't need to be a connection. Agents would be my bet, at least if I was making a simulation of a universe, and I wanted to put living stuff there, I would have gone for agents - simple, autonomous, numerous. Then again, if this is a simulation, we don't actually know if it's made by humans, could be some other species that would have no problem linking themselves here.

a.stewart said:
Secondly, we certainly don't have free will here, because that would require our minds to defy the laws of nature and do whatever they want for no reason, so I wouldn't see any point in a universe simulation except for research... This also means that if we are connected to a simulation, then our 'real selves' aren't having any effect on the decisions we make here, they're just experiencing our senses and thoughts.
As I said, agents. They (we?) can have freedom, as much as the simulation allows.

a.stewart said:
Thirdly, if this is a simulation, the chances that the creators of it are human is seriously infinitely improbable, given that humans have been around for a microsecond in terms of evolution, and the universe is rather large, and there's probably other life.
I don't see how the species running the simulation has any bearing on whether it exists or not.

a.stewart said:
If there ever was a simulation of the universe, it would not have active agents connected to it. There wouldn't be any point unless it was a small-scale simulation, and not a universe simulation. It would only make sense to have active agents connected to a simulation if it were for training or recreation. Proper simulations of a universe would definitely be standalone, with nobody connected, because having people connected would instantly defeat the purpose of a true, natural simulation entirely, unless the people inside it were unable to control their person, and only experience it.
The Sims. Or even Spore. That's a simulation with active agents. It's also a simulation of a universe. Not a good one, but just pointing out - we could be in a game or something. Or just a hobby project. Heck, who knows - they could even sell entire simulated universes and buyers may be able to do whatever they want with them - add some agents, for example. The presence of agents isn't a point against the simulation.
 
Mar 9, 2010
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RUINER ACTUAL said:
What do you think?
I don't really care. Whether it is or isn't a computer simulation changes nothing, I am what I perceive to be concious, have memories and continue to live. I could be the toy in a child's imagination and it would make no real difference to how I see the world or behave.
 

Strazdas

Robots will replace your job
May 28, 2011
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IT is possible, but we would not know it. Well we would not, unless there is a bug. Like that 10 times too large black hole. Even then probably not.
I would have gone on but DoDo seesm to have put it all in already
 

capper42

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Nov 20, 2009
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Gregg Lonsdale said:
The idea kind of makes me more thankful of the universe (or simulation) that we've got. Because I know that if I were one of the people running these universe simulators I'd be fucking around with it a fair bit, so now I'm just glad that I didn't get put in the "everyone's on fire" simulation, or the "Uwe Boll is the only filmmaker in the world" simulation.
There's a fair amount of fucking around, natural disasters and all that. That's only on our planet as well, there's billions out there that would surely be part of the same simulation.
 

Angie7F

WiseGurl
Nov 11, 2011
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It is possible, but even if it were, it would not change the way I would live my life.
 

IamLEAM1983

Neloth's got swag.
Aug 22, 2011
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That's funny, I always thought the debate concerning simulacra and simulation was more of a philosophical perspective on things. As to whether or not we are in one, I guess we're really not in any position to know, at least not with our current senses and intellect. The only way we'll ever know is when we'll die, I think.

Assuming it's a simulation, I could see one of two things happen:

1. we wake up, are unplugged and realize how crazy we were to put so much of ourselves into something that's clearly fake, now that we know better;
2. we cease to exist, as we're actually programs or functions of a greater program. Death involves either our termination or the final "compiling" of what we were and the re-allocation of resources to other processes. That feels like a decent allegory for decomposition and the overall postmortem biological events.

I'm more of the mind that we'll never know, and that it ultimately doesn't matter. I'm alive now, I might not be tomorrow or the day after or the day after that one. I have my goals, my tasks, my needs and wants. If I was programmed to want to work on my thesis, that's what I'll do. If my operator is actually using me to experience life through writing a thesis, that's what we'll both do as one being. Fuck, maybe there's some non-being out on the Plateau of Leng or something that's actually chipping out those very words on a wind-blasted stone tablet as I'm typing them, and I'm actually just a projection.

Fuck, maybe Descartes was right. Maybe we're all brains in a jar.

Who cares, honestly? The only use I see this having is if we try and use that conundrum to understand the "code" of the universe. The laws of physics, in other words.
 

mooncalf

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Jul 3, 2008
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This one feels like Chuang Tzu's butterfly dream has been brushed off and given a 21st century coat of paint.
Am I a human writing computer programs or am I a human program computers are writing.

The funny thing is the philosopher cited in that article puts forward three scenarios which he reasons to be definite outcomes for the human race. So if they can prove we're *not* in a computer simulation, does that mean we'll have to face a future in which we are either a) Dead or b) Not computing?
 

Jezzascmezza

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Aug 18, 2009
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Eh, it's an interesting idea, but it doesn't really bother me.
Life goes on, whether we're in a simulation or not.
 

DoPo

"You're not cleared for that."
Jan 30, 2012
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Fluffythepoo said:
Does that mean my ability to walk through walls is just a bug and not a super power?
No, you're just a dirty cheater. Stop shouting "noclip" already. And turn off the godmode, do you think it's funny?
 

Fluffythepoo

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Sep 29, 2011
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DoPo said:
Fluffythepoo said:
Does that mean my ability to walk through walls is just a bug and not a super power?
No, you're just a dirty cheater. Stop shouting "noclip" already. And turn off the godmode, do you think it's funny?
Well i do get a giggle making it rain and snow at the same time on a sunny day
 

zehydra

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Oct 25, 2009
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yes it's possible.

that's all we can really say about it.


Go about your business then.
 

DoPo

"You're not cleared for that."
Jan 30, 2012
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Fluffythepoo said:
DoPo said:
Fluffythepoo said:
Does that mean my ability to walk through walls is just a bug and not a super power?
No, you're just a dirty cheater. Stop shouting "noclip" already. And turn off the godmode, do you think it's funny?
Well i do get a giggle making it rain and snow at the same time on a sunny day
Stop that. You are the one who corrupted weather.exe and introduced the global warming bug.
 

Fluffythepoo

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Sep 29, 2011
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DoPo said:
Fluffythepoo said:
DoPo said:
Fluffythepoo said:
Does that mean my ability to walk through walls is just a bug and not a super power?
No, you're just a dirty cheater. Stop shouting "noclip" already. And turn off the godmode, do you think it's funny?
Well i do get a giggle making it rain and snow at the same time on a sunny day
Stop that. You are the one who corrupted weather.exe and introduced the global warming bug.
Just wait till the 21st when the frogs start falling
 

RUINER ACTUAL

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Oct 29, 2009
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The Unworthy Gentleman said:
RUINER ACTUAL said:
What do you think?
I don't really care. Whether it is or isn't a computer simulation changes nothing, I am what I perceive to be concious, have memories and continue to live. I could be the toy in a child's imagination and it would make no real difference to how I see the world or behave.
Of course it doesn't actually "change" our perception of ourselves, but "where do we come from" is one of the longest-running unanswered questions of our species, so I don't suggest the "ya, whatever" approach.
 
Mar 9, 2010
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RUINER ACTUAL said:
Of course it doesn't actually "change" our perception of ourselves, but "where do we come from" is one of the longest-running unanswered questions of our species, so I don't suggest the "ya, whatever" approach.
It's not so much of a "where do we come from" question as it is "are we even real?" We are, at least we're real enough to call ourselves real so whether we're in a simulation or not isn't really interesting enough for me to care about. It makes me seem like I don't care about these sorts of questions which I hate, but this one is just empty to me, especially when there are better questions to be asking than "are we actually just The Sims?"
 

niknar266

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Sep 22, 2011
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Hope the mods don't ban me for the above binary.
If we are in a simulation it raises so many questions
are we here willingly?
can we even leave or would even want to leave?
is the reality outside the simulation just another simulation(we could be layers deep for all we know).
probably could list more but I can't really be bothered and my head would probably explode thinking about this too hard.