Do we need more LGBTQ+ protagonists in video games?

A-D.

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Its actually very odd to see these questions asked. Mainly because it makes it rather evident how little people actually grasp about the concept of creating a character. Let me ask you all this question, answer it for yourself, no need to respond to it here.

Has your Sexuality or Gender ever shaped you as a human being?

And dont give me that cop-out on how people treat you cause of X, it doesnt affect the question. You are shaped by decisions you make, experiences you gather over the years and talents you learn, even if you might be predisposed to some of them. A character is not defined by their gender, or their sexuality, it is ONE aspect about them, but it does not define them, it does not sum them up.

You cant sum up another person with neat little definitions, we are more complex than that. Even if you could, just for the sake of the argument here, these definitions would be so many that you would run out of space on a single page to describe ONE person, let alone a group of them. What we "need" is complex and interesting characters, what gender they are, what haircolor they have, what skincolor they have or what their sexuality are comes last, because ultimately these are arbitrary and random.

You did not choose your haircolor, skincolor, ethnicity, nation of birth, parents, social class, sexuality or gender. These "definitions" just happen and they do not define who you are or who you can be. So no, we dont need LGBTQ Characters, or female characters, or blacks, or hispanics or whatever for the sake of inclusiveness. It's a hollow gesture at best, because once you do that, these characters become token, created to be "representative", so we can include everyone even if these characters are merely a cardboard cutout.

If we get good, complex character who just happen to be gay or transgendered or black? Well, more power to them, go right ahead. But dont include them for the sake of checking off another box on the list, because you do nobody any favours.
 

mrdude2010

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I'd definitely like to see games include a more demographically representative sample of protagonists. I absolutely do not want to see game makers crowbaring characters in to fulfill arbitrary diversity requirements. Basically, I want good games and properly representative games, in that order, preferably both.
 

mrdude2010

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Gankytim said:
Wait, when the fuck did they add the Q? What's it stand for? Is the Q an official thing or is it another one of those made up tumblr identities people use to yell at other people?
It was "questioning" last I knew, but the tumblr hypersensitive term may have changed since I last checked.
 

mrdude2010

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Nimcha said:
Sigmund Av Volsung said:
Correction: We need well-written and interesting LGBTQ protagonists.

As countless others have said before me, just crow-barring in an LGBTQ character is just cheap and pointless.
Why, though? I mean, crow-barring in a straight character would be just as pointless no?
Since heterosexuality is the majority norm, people usually assume heterosexuality unless stated otherwise, so if they just don't mention the character's sexuality at all, they're usually assumed to either be heterosexual, or their sexuality makes no difference. If the game goes out of its way to point out that someone is LGBTQetc and then doesn't do anything with it, it feels awkward and forced. Imagine if JK Rowling had said Dumbledore was gay sometime around book 5 rather than after book 7 had come out. It would have just looked like pandering because it added no depth or meaning to what had already taken place. It made sense when you considered his relationship with Grindelwald and all that, so it was worth saying, but only because it was a previously unconfirmed character aspect that affected his back story significantly.

Basically, if it doesn't work as character development, plot points, or universe building, there's really no point in going out of your way to say it. While there's no reason for, for example, Samus to be a lesbian, there's also no reason for her not to be a lesbian. It's fine to pan over a family photograph in the background showing her with her arm around her wife and their adopted kids, sort of like what Frozen did with Oaken, but if the game had straight up spelled it out as expository dialogue, it wouldnt've made much sense.
 

Nieroshai

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erttheking said:
GZGoten said:
as long as they add to the story or gameplay in a good way I don't see why not. If it's irrelevant in both cases I don't see what's the point, like Lara Croft in the Tom Raider reboot. what was the point of saying she was a lesbian? It didn't add anything to the story or character development
To be perfectly honest, did her being a woman add anything to the story or character development? Did her being British add anything? Did her being white add anything? I don't see why it has to add to anything, why can't a person just be gay? If Lara was heterosexual it didn't add anything to the story of character development, why is being gay so different?
Was she? I don't remember it ever coming up, and I'm pretty sure any mention by devs was just yet more foot-in-mouth that had nothing to do with the actual product, like "wanting to protect her" as though she was ever not more badass than any of us on this thread.
 

Jacco

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Why do people keep adding frickin letters to that stupid acronym? Jesus. It's like 25 letters long now. Stop it!

As for the topic, I think writers should write what they want to write without being crucified for not mentioning some obscure made up term that a special snowflake came up with to gain Tumblr or Twitter follows. Rule number 1 of writing is to write what you know. People would be just as offended if a straight white male tried to write about a black character in the inner city.

So what we need is not more LGBTQLMAOWTFBBQ characters, but more writers of all sorts to portray them. Why the fuck are we concerned about the state of fiction and its diversity when REAL people in the REAL world are not being allowed to create our fiction?
 

prowll

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Frankly, if sexuality is a point in a game other than an occasional 'oh, btw, he's X', I'm probably not playing it anyway. If the game is focusing on sex, well, I have porn for that. I play a game to get away from reality, not get immersed in it.
 

Supdupadog

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Why the fuck are we concerned about the state of fiction and its diversity when REAL people in the REAL world are not being allowed to create our fiction?
Well it's not like people can't do multiple problems.

If we couldn't, then everything else would still be on hold under all those starving sick children.
 

Nieroshai

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White Lightning said:
No. How many games even have the protagonist even mention their sexual orientation? No Mass Effect and the like don't count because you choose it. The Last of Us or whatever it was did, and that's all I can think of other then that really dumb one, it was a movie about a sad lesbian or something but everyone made it out to be an amazing game.

I'd rather have a game focus on an interesting story rather then who the character likes to bone. I mean at best such an addition would be a footnote.

"Captain, the bad guys are doing things!"
"Holy shit balls! what are they doing?"
"I don't know, but I'm a transsexual."

Seriously? Is that what you want? That's how it's gonna end up if you keep asking for crap like this. If a developer feels like doing it because it's part of an interesting story then cool! If it's forced in because people kept bitching then it's not cool, and will probably cause more bitching and they won't try it again.
I take it you've never played The Last of Us. Ellie's sexuality never comes up unless you have the expansion. Also, if all you got out of the story was "Ellie's emo," you missed the apocalypse, the search for a cure, and a gay survivalist's desperate struggle to keep zombies off of his lawn, all from the perspective of a man desperate not to lose all he has left.
 

Supdupadog

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Why is Ellie's leanings first when Bill was already having man troubles before the DLC?

Did everyone just kinda skip the cutscene with the big man meat magazine?
 

Chaos Isaac

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Need, no.

Honestly it doesn't really matter if we do get them. Plenty of games it doesn't matter what the character is into. However it would be nice for some more.
 

Treeberry

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White Lightning said:
No. How many games even have the protagonist even mention their sexual orientation? No Mass Effect and the like don't count because you choose it. The Last of Us or whatever it was did, and that's all I can think of other then that really dumb one, it was a movie about a sad lesbian or something but everyone made it out to be an amazing game.

I'd rather have a game focus on an interesting story rather then who the character likes to bone. I mean at best such an addition would be a footnote.

"Captain, the bad guys are doing things!"
"Holy shit balls! what are they doing?"
"I don't know, but I'm a transsexual."

Seriously? Is that what you want? That's how it's gonna end up if you keep asking for crap like this. If a developer feels like doing it because it's part of an interesting story then cool! If it's forced in because people kept bitching then it's not cool, and will probably cause more bitching and they won't try it again.
I can see where you're coming from but having non-straight, non-male and/or non-white characters doesn't have to be overt. A lesbian character, for example, in a soldier setting could just give her sweetheart and a quick peck on the cheek before departing.

And as for your example I could see this come up in a Mass Effect-like setting - you know when you're playing "counselor" to your comrades.

If it fits, it fits. If it doesn't, it doesn't. (If the people who write characters find it difficult, find better writers. I honestly don't get why people find it hard to write the non "default" characters - when they're supposed to be paid professionals to boot.)
 

LegendaryVKickr

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I dunno about this. Unless it's a game where gender identification/sexuality may play a role, I don't think it's neccesary. I do think it's important for games to give more options for you to play the way you would if you were the character. If I'm black, Animal Crossing is a bit weird for me since I can only be white.

Grand Theft Auto, for example, is weird if you go to a strip club if you're into dudes. I feel like, as a straight man, if I were playing as a character that was forced to be into dicks, I'd be a little bit uncomfortable. Not saying that characters should HAVE to be straight/gay/whatever, but the player should be allowed to decide, like with Shepard in Mass Effect.

Also, who's to say characters we perceive as straight are actually straight? Perhaps Mario is just in denial, and uses the whole "rescuing the princess" thing to cover up his attraction for Waluigi.
 

Ticklefist

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Every time people try to represent lesbians it's immediately dismissed as male pandering. By straight males, obv.
 

norashepard

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Considering we don't have any major games with transsexual leads, genderqueer leads, or really any explicitly gay/bisexual leads, then yes, we do need more, if only to say that the needs are met.

Of course if I had my way we'd have a billion more, but something tells me I'll be long dead before that happens.
 

A-D.

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MarsAtlas said:
A-D. said:
Has your Sexuality or Gender ever shaped you as a human being?

And dont give me that cop-out on how people treat you cause of X, it doesnt affect the question. You are shaped by decisions you make, experiences you gather over the years and talents you learn, even if you might be predisposed to some of them. A character is not defined by their gender, or their sexuality, it is ONE aspect about them, but it does not define them, it does not sum them up.
You just answered your own question. The answer is yes.
I dont see how being male or female changes your experience of the world as you grow up. Are you forced to do Ballet as a girl? Are you forced to be good at sports as a boy? There might be some kind of cultural expectation, there is no law that enforces it. If you happen to be female there is nothing keeping you from being a lawyer, a doctor, an astronaut, a racecar driver or whatever else field you might be interested in. It also doesnt keep you from developing certain skills and talents for say art, writing, technology or similar.

Likewise, just because you MIGHT be treated differently based on gender, you are not immune from certain treatment. Just because you might be insulted for being a girl by a boy, you may just as well be insulted by other boys when you are a boy yourself.

What we "need" is complex and interesting characters, what gender they are, what haircolor they have, what skincolor they have or what their sexuality are comes last, because ultimately these are arbitrary and random.
Arbitrary, yes, but since we live in a world that doesn't see it that way, its not irrelevant, and pretending that people aren't treated differently based on some otherwise arbitrary differences, such as skin pigmentation, is rather detached from reality. Some alternate realities like to put some of these beyond them - for example, skin colour and racial heritage seems rather irrelevant to how humans are treated in the Mass Effect franchise - but not all games are like that. In fact, some games use this to their strong suit. LA Noire uses the fact that 1947 Los Angeles was a quite openly racist place to develop the main character. The fact that the protagonist in The Walking Dead is black tends to make players more cautious when encountering new people who aren't black (and its been shown in the series that racism isn't a completely unfounded fear). Spec Ops: The Line undoubtedly deliberately made Captain Martin Walker a white man so players wouldn't become suspicious of the game's attempt to subvert the genre until the game's own time of its choosing because we live in a world where we'd actually be surprised to find out that the protagonist wasn't white.
Games dont have to be all about how our world is? They can be about how we want the world to be like, or explore situations where the world is much different to our expectations. If your only lens is via the reality of our current culture then what is the point of playing a game, or reading a book, or watching a movie? Just because LA Noire was set in the timeperiod and let you explore this part of history does not imply this is still the norm nor do i see any connection of color-based suspicion in games. In a zombie apocalypse i would be suspicious of everyone i had not met beforehand because they are quite literally strangers in a world thats gone entirely to shit and could just as well be about to murder you as you turn your back to them, i dont see what that has to do with skincolor at all.
 

BathorysGraveland2

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Well for me personally, no. But I can understand why people who are LGBT or any other letter of our great alphabet want to see some more characters who they can relate with. For me it depends on the tone of the game. I don't think such a character is necessary in a shooter, really. But a character-driven RPG or something? Sure, why not?

I think almost any kind of character can work provided they're well written.