Do you believe in ghosts or the paranormal?

[mandaforever]

I was wide awake, just like I am now. Also, this happened during the day. Sorry, but I'm not going to listen to you. Clearly you are a huge jerk with tunnel vision who does not know what a valid argument is, and I can't argue with a non-argument. At least I ACCEPT and BELIEVE the other side of my "argument"

Dont you think its a little arrogant to assume your perceptions of the event are 100% infallible?
Its been shown but that old chestnut science to be true that our brain tricks and lies to us.
And no, your arguements arent valid- they're the same tired old cliches that get trotted out every time this topic comes up, they always remind me of playing whack-a-mole- no matter how many times their slapped down they just pop right back up.
Oh and something Ive been wondering- how does the guy refusing to bend over backwards to stop from offending you affect the validity of his arguements? Really cant get my head round that one....

a valid argument=looking at the other side and looking into it extensively, then refuting what you can refute. You can't write off EVERYTHING. I'm not writing off everything. I'm also not arguing that ghosts are real. I do not believe in them. I experienced something during the day while I was wide awake. You can't 100% refute that. I don't 100% say it was paranormal. I'm not even arguing here. I'm not saying I "believe". I'm just saying I can't write it off, and listing my experiences I had. I have a feeling you didn't even read fully what I put down, either that or you were so eager to "write me off" you didn't bother to look at what I was saying.

I'm also saying this guy is very rude with the way he says things, and therefore I refuse to listen to his points due to me simply being offended by his attitude.

 

[mandaforever]

I was wide awake, just like I am now. Also, this happened during the day. Sorry, but I'm not going to listen to you. Clearly you are a huge jerk with tunnel vision who does not know what a valid argument is, and I can't argue with a non-argument. At least I ACCEPT and BELIEVE the other side of my "argument"

Dont you think its a little arrogant to assume your perceptions of the event are 100% infallible?
Its been shown but that old chestnut science to be true that our brain tricks and lies to us.
And no, your arguements arent valid- they're the same tired old cliches that get trotted out every time this topic comes up, they always remind me of playing whack-a-mole- no matter how many times their slapped down they just pop right back up.
Oh and something Ive been wondering- how does the guy refusing to bend over backwards to stop from offending you affect the validity of his arguements? Really cant get my head round that one....

a valid argument=looking at the other side and looking into it extensively, then refuting what you can refute. You can't write off EVERYTHING. I'm not writing off everything. I'm also not arguing that ghosts are real. I do not believe in them. I experienced something during the day while I was wide awake. You can't 100% refute that. I don't 100% say it was paranormal. I'm not even arguing here. I'm not saying I "believe". I'm just saying I can't write it off, and listing my experiences I had. I have a feeling you didn't even read fully what I put down, either that or you were so eager to "write me off" you didn't bother to look at what I was saying.

I'm also saying this guy is very rude with the way he says things, and therefore I refuse to listen to his points due to me simply being offended by his attitude.

anyways, I'm done here, I hate talking to closed-minded people.

 

[rutger5000]

Dunno I think so. To maintain my sanity I need to believe in souls, I also uphold several budhist believes. From there it isn't so hard to go to the supernatrual. Let's just say I probably won't believe a person who tells he has seen a ghost, but I wouldn't suprised at all if I saw one myself. A zombie or vampire would suprise me though, I can't imagine those having functional bodies.

Why would you need to believe in ghosts to maintain your sanity?

I said souls, not ghost. I think of ghost as a soul of a dead person who still lingers around, I don't know if that possible, but I don't have problems with assuming it is.
As for souls, I need to believe in them to not need to explain and justify my entire behaviour to myself. If I wouldn't work from the assumption that I have a soul, I woulnd't be nearly half the person I am. I see reason in live by expanding your horizon and help others with doing the same. However I would see no reason in that if I didn't believe in my soul, then I probably just try to impregnate as many women as possible to ensure the survival of my genes.

 

[Aqua Trenoble]

Actually, the woman on that website is one of the most dangerous type of con artists active in the paranormal field, because she tries to capture sexual abuse victims and other people who really need professional assistance to overcome their problem.

Sexual abuse is a very serious traumatic experience, and if handled incorrectly (for instance by a spiritual moonlighter only out for money) it can become a life-long problem, and even get worse. The problems it causes are often difficult to connect to the problem, difficult to diagnose and even more difficult to actually solve. Paranormal moonlighters also have been known to actually talk people into having false memories of sexual abuse, resulting in untrue accusations, shattered families, lawsuits and a lot of unhappiness.

SHE ISN'T A CON ARTIST. Think for half a second! What sane con artist would offer to heal sexual abuse when the only result would be a lawsuit? They would lose lots of money and any credibility that they might have built!

Take my argument as you will, but for god's sake don't use an argument when it actually disproves what you're saying!

 

[mandaforever]

I was wide awake, just like I am now. Also, this happened during the day. Sorry, but I'm not going to listen to you. Clearly you are a huge jerk with tunnel vision who does not know what a valid argument is, and I can't argue with a non-argument. At least I ACCEPT and BELIEVE the other side of my "argument"

Dont you think its a little arrogant to assume your perceptions of the event are 100% infallible?
Its been shown but that old chestnut science to be true that our brain tricks and lies to us.
And no, your arguements arent valid- they're the same tired old cliches that get trotted out every time this topic comes up, they always remind me of playing whack-a-mole- no matter how many times their slapped down they just pop right back up.
Oh and something Ive been wondering- how does the guy refusing to bend over backwards to stop from offending you affect the validity of his arguements? Really cant get my head round that one....

a valid argument=looking at the other side and looking into it extensively, then refuting what you can refute. You can't write off EVERYTHING. I'm not writing off everything. I'm also not arguing that ghosts are real. I do not believe in them. I experienced something during the day while I was wide awake. You can't 100% refute that. I don't 100% say it was paranormal. I'm not even arguing here. I'm not saying I "believe". I'm just saying I can't write it off, and listing my experiences I had. I have a feeling you didn't even read fully what I put down, either that or you were so eager to "write me off" you didn't bother to look at what I was saying.

I'm also saying this guy is very rude with the way he says things, and therefore I refuse to listen to his points due to me simply being offended by his attitude.

anyways, I'm done here, I hate talking to closed-minded people.

to tie this up, don't put words in other people's mouths

 

[IntangibleMango]

I would like to point out that the so-called "close-minded" scientists spend decades upon decades learning, earning internationally recognised qualifications, and coming up with possible theories with dedicated long-term research to explain things that require an explanation, whereas just about every story of a psychic or 'healer' etc. i've heard they claim they have a gift that they just have, no questions asked.

And as far as i'm concerned, things like shadows cast from invisible trees that may or may not have existed aren't even really worth investigating and wasting time with.

 

[Sparrow]

Eh, no. Most "spiritual" things usually have easy explanations behind them. I knew a guy that went into an old hotel, then the door shut behind him. Suddenly he started thinking ghosts are real. You know, there's this thing called wind you dumbass.

[sup]Cue a shitload of ghosts coming to fuck up my shit whilst I sleep...[/sup]

I honestly wonder why ghosts would be so preoccupied with trying to scare the shit out of folks. Is the afterlife really so boring, guys? Why not magic up a damn cake instead of trying to scare little kids shitless.

I was wide awake, just like I am now. Also, this happened during the day. Sorry, but I'm not going to listen to you. Clearly you are a huge jerk with tunnel vision who does not know what a valid argument is, and I can't argue with a non-argument. At least I ACCEPT and BELIEVE the other side of my "argument"

Dont you think its a little arrogant to assume your perceptions of the event are 100% infallible?
Its been shown but that old chestnut science to be true that our brain tricks and lies to us.
And no, your arguements arent valid- they're the same tired old cliches that get trotted out every time this topic comes up, they always remind me of playing whack-a-mole- no matter how many times their slapped down they just pop right back up.
Oh and something Ive been wondering- how does the guy refusing to bend over backwards to stop from offending you affect the validity of his arguements? Really cant get my head round that one....

a valid argument=looking at the other side and looking into it extensively, then refuting what you can refute. You can't write off EVERYTHING. I'm not writing off everything. I'm also not arguing that ghosts are real. I do not believe in them. I experienced something during the day while I was wide awake. You can't 100% refute that. I don't 100% say it was paranormal. I'm not even arguing here. I'm not saying I "believe". I'm just saying I can't write it off, and listing my experiences I had. I have a feeling you didn't even read fully what I put down, either that or you were so eager to "write me off" you didn't bother to look at what I was saying.

I'm also saying this guy is very rude with the way he says things, and therefore I refuse to listen to his points due to me simply being offended by his attitude.

anyways, I'm done here, I hate talking to closed-minded people.

The guy ain't closed-minded. You can't be closed-minded on a topic like this, it's all completely subjective. One person might think that the wind is trying to whisper something to them while they sleep, whilst a different person might just be pissed that there's a draft in their room. His point was that folks jump to conclusions to quickly when there is often a perfectly simple way to explain many situations. You can't disprove something you can't gain evidence on.

 

[Zykon TheLich]

[quote="chunkeymonke" post="

 

[ELD3RGoD]

Psychic Sally is pretty damn accurate, even if she does have an annoying voice.

An accurate psychic just means he/she's good at letting their victims tell them the information they need to know.


You know what would be impressive? Setting them up, and them knowing it through their mysterious powers.

I for instance have debunked a spiritual healer by asking to be cured of Marfan Syndrome [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marfan_syndrome], which is genetic, and incurable by definition. I have been cleared in medical examinations of most symptoms. The only ones I have are my height, the span of my arms being more than my height, and very flexible joints. All the others I, thankfully, do not have.

A little acting on my part about 'feeling the power of prayer' and some praying bullshit further, I was proclaimed healed. Except that that is impossible. To be 'cured', I would've had to shrink on the spot, and my arms would've had to grow shorter.

That happened because I had been feeding the 'healer' false information on his questions, so he was totally reliant on his 'powers'. It's not a miracle he then got it all wrong. Look at how such paranormal moonlighters work. Notice how their victims always give them the information they need?

Sometimes they literally ask who died, the victim answers, and then the medium 'feels' that it was that person who died.

You misunderstand, she goes on stage with hundreds of people and 'calls out' the dead, usually through horrific experiences such as rape and premature death and then comes out with full names and so on before people can reply. She also does celebrity things, she's not a 'spiritual healer.' Like I said, I don't believe in any religion, but spirits is a completely different area.

 

[ELD3RGoD]

Think for half a second! What sane con artist would offer to heal sexual abuse when the result could be a lawsuit?

All of them, actually. Money, money, money...

Take my argument as you will, but for god's sake don't use an argument when it actually disproves what you're saying!

Sorry? What I said about how dangerous her activities are is fact. It is a fact that trauma worsens if handled incorrectly. It is also proven fact that people can be given false memories.

It is also proven fact that if you sell something under false pretences, that's fraud.

It is also 'proven' that computer games cause people to kill other people. Take that as you will.

 

[Patrick Dare]

Stuff falls off my desk all the time for no apparent reason. Obviously my room is haunted by ghosts that like to knock shit off my desk (asshole ghosts!).
/sarcasm

As some have stated, just because we can't explain something doesn't mean you get to automatically claim that your supernatural claims are true. It just means we don't know what it was, it could be you're right or it could be any of thousands of other explanations. I choose not to believe in the supernatural because based on what we know about our world it seems highly unlikely that these claims are true. There has also been a mountain of work done debunking most supernatural claims. Most times there is an explanation within the boundaries of what we know or if not the specific claim being made is debunked and the best we can say is "we don't know". A good example of the former is someone going into a house with an em meter and claiming places with higher readings are evidence of ghosts or paranormal bodies except upon scrutiny of the video they are getting these readings by electrical sockets, lights and places where wires are run behind the wall. Oh guess what causes em fields? Electricity running through wires. Guess it wasn't ghosts after all.

 

[megamanenm]

Dunno I think so. To maintain my sanity I need to believe in souls, I also uphold several budhist believes. From there it isn't so hard to go to the supernatrual. Let's just say I probably won't believe a person who tells he has seen a ghost, but I wouldn't suprised at all if I saw one myself. A zombie or vampire would suprise me though, I can't imagine those having functional bodies.

Why would you need to believe in ghosts to maintain your sanity?

I said souls, not ghost. I think of ghost as a soul of a dead person who still lingers around, I don't know if that possible, but I don't have problems with assuming it is.
As for souls, I need to believe in them to not need to explain and justify my entire behaviour to myself. If I wouldn't work from the assumption that I have a soul, I woulnd't be nearly half the person I am. I see reason in live by expanding your horizon and help others with doing the same. However I would see no reason in that if I didn't believe in my soul, then I probably just try to impregnate as many women as possible to ensure the survival of my genes.

Sorry, misread that as ghosts, but all of that can be explained by something that's pretty well-understood, the brain; you have no reasons to believe in souls.

 

[Dr.Nick]

delete

 

[Dr.Nick]

I don't believe in ghosts. It just seems childish to me. Science tells me that the possibilities of ghosts being real are virtually non-existent. Sorry if that offends some people.

What makes you say that? I have never really seen any scientific evidence that aims to show that ghosts exist or do not exist. Science has never seemed to try to prove or disprove the existence of ghosts. If you have some scientific articles or studies on the subject then please enlighten us.

 

[AndyFromMonday]

I'm not asking people to personally experience anything, I'm just saying that they blatantly disregard or even attempt to disprove other people's personal experiences. That is the mark of a complete douche. I'm providing potential evidence, you are just ignoring it in favor of an explanation that is more comfortable to you.

- A few days ago I felt a sharp pain in my anus whilst laying in bed trying to fall asleep. I was unable to determine what caused my pain but it lasted for about two hours and I could barely move, it felt as if someone tied me to the bed. When the pain stopped I saw the door open and close. The only reasonable conclusion I can draw from this experience is that the ghost of Hitler raped me then left the room. -

Do you now realize why no one attempts to disprove other peoples "personal experiences" or do I need to think of something even more outrageous to say? According to your logic the above phrase should be taken seriously. Not only should we call the police but we should also organized a full on manhunt for the ghost of Hitler. Also, if someone does not take me seriously I should insult them because it makes me feel better.

 

[Aqua Trenoble]

And the lawsuits were by victims of spiritual healers, against their supposed abusers, usually a father who saw his family destroyed by the false accusation the spiritual con artist lead their victims to make.

Take my argument as you will, but for god's sake don't use an argument when it actually disproves what you're saying!

Sorry? What I said about how dangerous her activities are is fact. It is a fact that trauma worsens if handled incorrectly. It is also proven fact that people can be given false memories.

It is also proven fact that if you sell something under false pretenses, that's fraud.

*Sigh* Another edit done far too late...
________________________________________________________________________________________________
What sane con artist would offer to heal sexual abuse when the only result would be a lawsuit? They would lose lots of money and any credibility that they might have built!
________________________________________________________________________________________________

I reiterated the second sentence because you didn't seem to get my point. If you don't do the job you're supposed to do then you will lose money. A con artist wouldn't offer to heal sexual abuse when other areas are just as or nearly as profitable and far less likely to earn them a lawsuit. I know that false allegations of sexual abuse are dangerous. That's completely tangential to my point. What I'm saying is that the "victim" or their family would sue the con artist if they had the slightest bit of sense. The argument that you made is that a con artist would handle sexual abuse incorrectly, and that is the argument that I'm using to say that a con artist would not advertise such therapy because of the likelihood of being sued!

Also please fix your spelling, it's bothering me quite a bit.

 

[Doclector]

I think both sides on this argument are wrong. Putting it in classical faith V science terms, scientists will often claim to know absolutely that no such things exist due to certain natural laws, but that's the very point of the term "super"natural. When you are talking about the supernatural, by it's very definition, the established laws of our reality are not certain to apply. The "faithful" will often claim that the supernatural is everywhere, which quite frankly, it isn't. There are certainly more hoaxes than any of the other "unexplained" cases, to suspect the supernatural without extensive prior investigation into other, more likely possibilities is extremely foolish.

I think we should learn to accept, as part of our own humanity, that the only thing we really know of these matters is that we know nothing.

 

[Les Awesome]

ghosts, vampires, werewolves, ghouls -no
souls, afterlife, something beyond our understanding -yes
i have my problems with the church,mosque,temple
but i believe in a higher power

 

[Aqua Trenoble]

I'm not asking people to personally experience anything, I'm just saying that they blatantly disregard or even attempt to disprove other people's personal experiences. That is the mark of a complete douche. I'm providing potential evidence, you are just ignoring it in favor of an explanation that is more comfortable to you.

Do you now realize why no one attempts to disprove other peoples "personal experiences" or do I need to think of something even more outrageous to say? According to your logic the above phrase should be taken seriously. Not only should we call the police but we should also organized a full on manhunt for the ghost of Hitler. Also, if someone does not take me seriously I should insult them because it makes me feel better.

GODDAMNIT. WHAT. I. AM. SAYING. IS.

People had positive results with healers. Other people think that they imagined these positive results. These other people are making up reasons for things which do not fit their opinions to not be true.

DO. YOU. UNDERSTAND?

 

[rutger5000]

Dunno I think so. To maintain my sanity I need to believe in souls, I also uphold several budhist believes. From there it isn't so hard to go to the supernatrual. Let's just say I probably won't believe a person who tells he has seen a ghost, but I wouldn't suprised at all if I saw one myself. A zombie or vampire would suprise me though, I can't imagine those having functional bodies.

Why would you need to believe in ghosts to maintain your sanity?

I said souls, not ghost. I think of ghost as a soul of a dead person who still lingers around, I don't know if that possible, but I don't have problems with assuming it is.
As for souls, I need to believe in them to not need to explain and justify my entire behaviour to myself. If I wouldn't work from the assumption that I have a soul, I woulnd't be nearly half the person I am. I see reason in live by expanding your horizon and help others with doing the same. However I would see no reason in that if I didn't believe in my soul, then I probably just try to impregnate as many women as possible to ensure the survival of my genes.

Sorry, misread that as ghosts, but all of that can be explained by something that's pretty well-understood, the brain; you have no reasons to believe in souls.

No it can't. First of all the brain is barely understood at all.
Second of all biology only claims to understand behaviour that eventually increases the chances of survival of your genes. That behaviour can very well be auto-destructive or helpfull to society. Now since I'm quite smart, and rather charming if I want to, I could think of several things I could do to increase the chance of survival of my genes, and I could conquer the limits evolution has laid down upon me to not damage society while doing so.
Third of all you don't know me. Who are you to say I don't need my believe in my soul to keep my sanity? The things I said clearly only related to me, not in people in general. Honestly I find it rather rude for you to say I have no reasons to believe in souls. (Okay I used souls pural, but wouldn't it be rather arrogant to assume that I'm the only person with a soul?)