Do you dislike JRPGs? (Flamewars unwelcome)

[CIB]

Disclaimer: First off, I'm aware a thread like this can easily explode. I'd like to ask everyone who contributes to keep it reasonable, and if for those reasons this thread gets removed, I understand.

So.. Basically, I'm simply curious. I'm a big follower of ZeroPunctuation, and the genre is one of Yahztee's regular punchbags. I don't hold it against him, I love his rants, even if they're against stuff I like. I don't take anything he says very personally.


The thing is, I start to get a feeling that this is a bigger trend, and that not all people who speak ill of JRPGs do it because they rant for a living. I don't know if this hunch is correct, but if it is, I'm curious why. It just seems a bit weird that a niche genre would be target of so much negativity, when no one is forced to play or care about it.

To put this into perspective.. I absolutely don't enjoy sports games. They don't reflect my real life interests, they don't provide me with interesting story or gameplay, in short I don't play them. But that isn't a reason for me to dislike them, to say they're bad games, or to insult their playerbase. They're just not my taste, that's all.

What's different for JRPGs? They very obviously aren't games that are meant to appeal to just anyone. Being born out of japanese culture, they have their own history, style and mentality, which happens to fit the taste of some people, and not fit the taste of others. I don't see anything wrong with this, heck, I wouldn't see anything wrong with this if I didn't enjoy them.


Yet I'm picking up this vibe, and it irks me somewhat to not understand where it's coming from. One theory, which I can't confirm as I haven't played a JRPG more recent than Kingdom Hearts, is that as production costs rose beyond the value of a small town, they tried to appease larger audiences. Kinda obvious how that would fail though, so if this happened, I won't even try to grasp the stupidity of it.

I can see a lot of things players might not enjoy in JRPGs.. Turn based combat, lengthy dialogs, no requirements of skill save a teensy bit of planning.. The thing is, I truly enjoy all these aspects, and I know a lot of people who feel the same. I could describe why these things can actually improve your experience, but I won't, because the best way to find out is to grab a JRPG and experience for yourself whether you like it.


Then of course, there's the story telling. Now, I can't speak for all JRPGs, because I haven't played many of them, but yes, all the ones I played had pretty much the same underlying ideas and plot elements, particularly the Final Fantasy series. I don't think that's bad writing, nor do I think it's something unique to JRPGs. I mean, Tropes Are Tools [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TropesAreTools] (Good luck finding out again)


So all in all.. I can't see anything fundamentally wrong with the concept of JRPGs. They're merely that, a concept, a collection of ideas, implemented in a variety of games. Maybe you don't enjoy any of those games, and that's fine. If there's a real reason to shudder at the mention of the word JRPG, I'd really love to know.

 

[Kahunaburger]

I think a significant number of people who claim to dislike JRPGs actually just dislike the artstyle and/or Final Fantasy games. Personally, I'm not of a fan of the linearity and grindiness that many games in the genre have, and I think that the writing often seems to lose a lot in the translation.

Then again, not all JRPGs are linear or (overly) grindy - one of my favorite recent RPGs was Devil Survivor, which I felt did an excellent job with combat and an even better job with the C&C-laden storyline. I also just turned off Shiren the Wanderer, which is what you get when a JRPG and Rogue have a baby. Similarly excellent, plenty of emergent complexity. Recettear is awesome, too. So I'm not about to write off the entire genre because I don't like some common mechanics in it, particularly when it's a genre that hasn't forgotten how awesome turn-based gameplay can be.

 

[SajuukKhar]

My main problem with JRPGs is that, while there are several types of them, I don't feel like they have changed much at all in 15+ years.

Its kinda like pokemon, sure the add weather and stuff but hats mostly gimmick stuff, the base gameplay of them is still the same and it gets.... old fast.

 

[SageRuffin]

Most JRPGs use certain gameplay conventions that I'm simply not fond of, not to mention that I don't qualify JRPGs as actual RPGs but that's a whole other can of worms.

 

[370999]

No I quite like some JRPGs, In fact one of my favorite games of all times in a JRPG (Tales of Symphonia for anyone who cares)

I think part of the frustration with them is sometimes they don't really change the whole set up. The settings change but often the same character archetypes and plots are kept.

There is also the issue of them often lacking the ability of the player to have meaningful choice.

And I think some people just dislike the more outlandish style or settings.

As a somewhat minor point, sometimes the JRPG fandom can slip into the "glorious Nippon" mindset where the make JRPGs to be the sole bastion of good stories which can be infuriating.

 

[Epona]

I love JRPG's but damn I am so sick of fucking anime. I prefer JRPG's on handhelds but it seems that most of them have anime type graphics, I am sick of that look.

I want Tales of the Abyss for the 3DS but I just can't take more anime graphics.

 

[The Madman]

Generally speaking my complaint isn't the actual gameplay so much as the style and art design that irks me. I'm not much a fan of anime and bluntly put the style of fantasy that most jrpg seem to employ, that sort of grand fantasy taken to almost ridiculous proportions. I just like even fantasy to have some grounding in reality; I can play The Witcher for example and see parallels between it's setting and story and that of true Eastern Europe. I can understand the mechanics of warfare, the tools in place and the means of combat. Magic adds an interesting spice to everything, a mystical edge, but the understanding is still there.

Now obviously this isn't always the case. Planescape: Torment is about as weird as it gets and I love that game, hell, I loved Final Fantasy 6 as well, even enjoyed 7 although I absolutely loathed 8 from what little I managed to tolerate. But at least FF6 I can understand as a sort of fairy-tale style story that if anything the simplistic visuals help me enjoy it. I can use my imagination to fill in the details. 7 is fantasy steampunk, a setting I'm fairly familiar with. And Planescape is based on DnD, which I understand just fine.

There's always some grounding for me. Somewhere to start.

Meanwhile I watch the trailer for the latest Final Fantasy game and I have no clue what the hell anything is or why or how. There's some girl on a... robot horse thing? And she's charging up the arm of a... evil robot god thing? With a... sword? Gun? Thing. Sorta fantasyish I guess, weird, but fantasy. Then some black guy in a trench-coat is there and he's got an afro and it modern? Sorta? I guess. Does gravity apply wherever they are because pretty sure what they're doing is impossible too, or is that just magic? I don't know. I have no clue what anything anywhere is.

I imagine for the majority who enjoy that their 'grounding factor' so to speak is anime. That's what I presume anyway. But since I don't watch that there's nothing for me to cling to and it's all just silly looking gibberish.

Do want to play Dark Souls however. Gothic medieval horror imagery is something I can get behind!

 

[CrimsonBlaze]

No I quite like some JRPGs, In fact one of my favorite games of all times in a JRPG (Tales of Symphonia for anyone who cares)

I think part of the frustration with them is sometimes they don't really change the whole set up. The settings change but often the same character archetypes and plots are kept.

There is also the issue of them often lacking the ability of the player to have meaningful choice.

And I think some people just dislike the more outlandish style or settings.

As a somewhat minor point, sometimes the JRPG fandom can slip into the "glorious Nippon" mindset where the make JRPGs to be the sole bastion of good stories which can be infuriating.

I hear you, brother (for I, too, enjoyed Tales of Symphonia).

What makes JRPGs memorable is not so much the story or gameplay, but the characters. Whether some memorable JRPG characters deserve all their hype and popularity is completely subjective.

I enjoy JRPGs not so much because of the characters or story, but how much it distinguishes itself from others in terms of gameplay, customization, and challenges.

 

[WiccaVamp]

I have a love/hate relationship with JRPGs because i think they have some of my favorite and least favorite RPGs of all time. A lot of their older games I still love and prob always will; a few are: Chrono Trigger, Persona 2, Tales of Destiny, FF VI, etc. Some of their newer games however, do not fill me with the same love and interest.Such as: FF XIII, Persona 3, Ar tonelico: Melody of Elemia, etc. I'm sure there are some great ones out there that I haven't tried but lately I've been pulling away from them, let's hope I find something to bring me back to them with a smile on my face.

 

[Strain42]

Mostly yes, but it's not so much a problem with the genre itself, and more a problem of the stuff you usually see in it.

Let me use a game that I think works as a good example here. Riviera: The Promised Land. In 2005, this game was released for the GBA. Now, if you haven't played it, it's a very anime-esque JRPG. You've got your pretty boy-ish protagonist, you've got your super powerful quiet loner might be evil, might not be type guy, you've got your quiet shy girl, your spunky pigtail girl, etc. etc.

When I got this game in 2005, I loved it. I got all but one of the endings.

Then it was ported to the PSP in 2007. And lemme tell ya...I could barely get through the tutorial. Now this isn't the games fault, it's just my own personal tastes. But in that time, seeing this dialogue new again, it was all so unbelievably cliched that it practically caused physical pain for me to read it (and listen to it since the PSP one is fully voice acted)

Basically, in the past 5 years, outside of the MegaTen franchise or Pokemon, I think the number of JRPG games that I've played and actually liked could probably be counted on one hand, and that's including ports and remakes of games I once loved. Every now and then I'll pick one up if I think it looks interesting, but more often than not these days, I'll find myself regretting that decision very quickly.

It may have been the strongest horse in my stable when I was a kid, but it's just not the genre for me anymore.

 

[kayisking]

Well... I don't really like most, but the MegaTen franchise is my favourite franchise of all time. Especially the Persona series.

 

[Omega Pirate]

No I quite like some JRPGs, In fact one of my favorite games of all times in a JRPG (Tales of Symphonia for anyone who cares)

I think part of the frustration with them is sometimes they don't really change the whole set up. The settings change but often the same character archetypes and plots are kept.

There is also the issue of them often lacking the ability of the player to have meaningful choice.

And I think some people just dislike the more outlandish style or settings.

As a somewhat minor point, sometimes the JRPG fandom can slip into the "glorious Nippon" mindset where the make JRPGs to be the sole bastion of good stories which can be infuriating.

Spoiler

OMGOMGOMG TALES OF SYMPHONIA!!!!

ahem.

I love my JPRG's. However, I dislike certain types of them, mainly Final Fantasy. Its just so, ummm, repetitive? One of the main reason I like the Tales series is because it lets me run around in real time. However I am not completely against turn based combat, I find that if its hard or unique (Etrian Odyssey, Knights in a Nighmare) I enjoy it. However what I can't stand is the repetitiveness of grinding the same enemies over and over with no real challenge.

If its challenging just because it is a higher level then you are then it is boring. If its a challenge because your just doing it wrong then its more my type of game. I like games that are fun to play, if the story is good then its a bonus. If I just wanted a story I would watch a movie/anime/Show/book/play/etc. Yes I would watch a book. hah.

 

[Snotnarok]

Almost all JRPGs of the new variety have all been just graphically intense, storylacking games with angsty teenagers...From what I've seen anyway. To make my statement less bile filled, anything before the PS3/360 era was just awesome.

Breath of Fire IV: Ryu is a tough looking hero without being a musclebound monster who has his share of troubles but makes it through.

Cloud in any new Final Fantasy roll by comparison drives me nuts, he's flipping around, upsidown with a sword that weighs 5x more than him but ..."I'm ...No hero..." Despite him not really doing any of this angst crap in his original game. Guess that happened after he BECAME a hero he declares he can't be a hero.

Chaz from Phantasy Star IV despite major loss does his small bit of crying and he pushes on and does what he has to.

Parasite Eve 3 (was an rpg-like series) Aya became a whiney protagonist despite being a strong one through 2 other games. Not to mention they butchered the hell out of the original story and then just loaded it up with fanservice. Yes shower scene in 2 bla bla bla, it wasn't covered by many angles and had clothing loss as a gameplay element with maid uniforms and sexy business woman attire. It's stupid, there's no defending that.

Even Persona 3 has a bit of a emo feel to the main character, however the game around him takes away from that and makes the game really good.

Do I hate JRPGs? Hell no I love a lot of the old ones but so many of the new ones just are grindy or angsty or have just dumb stories with characters that are silly powerful but angsty. Maybe I'm just a bigger fan of the classics, but I've found little to like in many new RPGs. Persona has been amazing so far, but grindy, but it's better than what happened to FFXIII.

 

[neonsword13-ops]

Ever play the Persona series for PS2?

Perfect example of JRPGs done right. It even does a great job at making friendship in JRPGs feel less cliche.

Seriously, pick it up if you haven't, or just wait until the end of the year or next spring and pick up the reboot on the Vita.

 

[Vhite]

I do like them but there are hardly any on PC.