It's only MMR in the UK. In america it's thimerosal in vaccines that cause Autism.Baffle said:Autism is caused by a combination of wheat and MMR jabs, not genetics. I'm not sure what the balance is though, so if you don't get the jab you're gonna have to eat a shit-ton of bread.Sung-Hwan said:they shouldn't have to suffer being born due to genetically defective parents.
and how are you sure of that? Most of the parents of autistic people I know or read of have some serious issues. Look at Chris Chan's for reference.Baffle said:Autism is caused by a combination of wheat and MMR jabs, not genetics. I'm not sure what the balance is though, so if you don't get the jab you're gonna have to eat a shit-ton of bread.Sung-Hwan said:they shouldn't have to suffer being born due to genetically defective parents.
Sung-Hwan said:and how are you sure of that? Most of the parents of autistic people I know or read of have some serious issues. Look at Chris Chan's for reference.
Honestly? I think you're in the wrong.Sung-Hwan said:Basically here is what went down. I want to know what you guys think, like who was in the wrong.
I didn't specifically state autistic people are inhuman by default. Instead, I mean it's when people are forced into poor occupations like Janitor duty or fastfood employee, society begins to dehumanize and antagonize them. Hell, the very idea of a fastfood occupation is used as a traditional intimidation tactic towards teenagers or kids to get them to work harder...which leads to a lot of suicides.sky14kemea said:Honestly? I think you're in the wrong.Sung-Hwan said:Basically here is what went down. I want to know what you guys think, like who was in the wrong.
Autism is a huge spectrum and not every case is severe enough to be debilitating. A lot of Austistic people go on to live normal lives, some even learn to manage it until it's barely noticeable. Even if they don't manage to "hide it" they still deserve the same chances as every one else.
Calling any human "less than human" for a disability they can't control is cruel and dehumanizing.
My statement still stands that calling any human "less than human" is still cruel. Those jobs are essential. If more people realised that then they wouldn't be so ridiculed in the first place. Most of the ones doing the ridiculing are people that have never even had those jobs, so they know nothing about it or the people that work in them.Sung-Hwan said:I didn't specifically state autistic people are inhuman by default. Instead, I mean it's when people are forced into poor occupations like Janitor duty or fastfood employee, society begins to dehumanize and antagonize them. Hell, the very idea of a fastfood occupation is used as a traditional intimidation tactic towards teenagers or kids to get them to work harder...which leads to a lot of suicides.sky14kemea said:Honestly? I think you're in the wrong.
Autism is a huge spectrum and not every case is severe enough to be debilitating. A lot of Austistic people go on to live normal lives, some even learn to manage it until it's barely noticeable. Even if they don't manage to "hide it" they still deserve the same chances as every one else.
Calling any human "less than human" for a disability they can't control is cruel and dehumanizing.
Sung-Hwan said:but it's the fact that these jobs are only given to the failures of human society.
I won't comment on the issue itself, since I get the feeling that's not really what you're after anyway. But I may be able to give you some advice. I hang out with a lot of pretty pretentious people, the kind who are interested in talking about philosophy in their spare time. Saying that you have an "ideological difference" is really more appropriate if you're talking about just that: ideas. Crap like "What is the nature of evil?" "Is there such thing as fate?" If a friend abandoned me because of a difference in thought on either of those, it'd just be weird. But what you're talking about seems to be less abstract thought and more policy. And when innocent lives are at stake (from either point of view) you should expect some serious head-butting. "What does it mean to be alive?" is a different question from "Should abortion be legal?" if you catch my drift.Sung-Hwan said:Basically here is what went down. I want to know what you guys think, like who was in the wrong.
My friend is normally very patient and understanding, but we got into an argument over whether or not autistic people should be born due to the "life" they will suffer through before being put in a minimum wage job society determines for them. My friend was appalled that I suggested they shouldn't have to suffer being born due to genetically defective parents. He then stated regardless of the poor occupations autistic people often end up with, they're still trying to make a living and that those jobs are necessary. I told him they're less than human when placed in that role of society, and its why they're antagonized by the staff where they work at. He claimed that is dehumanizing and cruel, but I protested again. At this point he said
[1/16/15, 12:03:43 AM] ---: ok, I can't take it any more
[1/16/15, 12:05:20 AM] ---: you need professional help. I can't give you that, and you don't listen to anything I say any way. please reach out to someone in a medical field who can help you. I wish you the best.
And then just removed me as a friend and went AWOL since, despite my attempts at apologizing. But who was in the wrong here?
So do you think there's no way you can reconcile with people that aren't compatible with your way of thinking?sanquin said:I lost 2 of my friends (and the guy I thought was a friend) in a similar fashion. It felt horrible, really. Though I eventually got over it, and learned that friends especially made in your earlier years, often don't last. You grow up, develop more distinct personalities, etc. And you just aren't compatible any more. It happens a lot, with varying degrees of anger towards each other as a result.
As for the reason behind this happening between you two. I kind of agree with your side. But it's too extreme to me. I think that people with serious/debilitating defects would be better off not being born. That being said once they are born, no matter the circumstances, they have every right to live what is considered a normal life as much as possible. And parents being aware of their child being different still have every right to decide whether to keep said child. It's not my decision what other people do in this matter after all.
If you -are- willing to put differences aside and focus on the friendship, but he isn't. Then unlikely. Same for if you both aren't willing. And considering how he seems to be ignoring you, I doubt he's willing to put aside such a difference.Sung-Hwan said:So do you think there's no way you can reconcile with people that aren't compatible with your way of thinking?
Well, i am no expert in philosophical debates, but you got to remember that in conversations like this there's no true answer; in mathematics you know that 2+2 its equal to 4, because its that way and cant be changed, but in philosophy every answer its subjective, and totally up to the person that its interpreting it. Its an opinion! and every one has the right to have one of their own.Sung-Hwan said:Basically here is what went down. I want to know what you guys think, like who was in the wrong.
My friend is normally very patient and understanding, but we got into an argument over whether or not autistic people should be born due to the "life" they will suffer through before being put in a minimum wage job society determines for them. My friend was appalled that I suggested they shouldn't have to suffer being born due to genetically defective parents. He then stated regardless of the poor occupations autistic people often end up with, they're still trying to make a living and that those jobs are necessary. I told him they're less than human when placed in that role of society, and its why they're antagonized by the staff where they work at. He claimed that is dehumanizing and cruel, but I protested again. At this point he said
[1/16/15, 12:03:43 AM] ---: ok, I can't take it any more
[1/16/15, 12:05:20 AM] ---: you need professional help. I can't give you that, and you don't listen to anything I say any way. please reach out to someone in a medical field who can help you. I wish you the best.
And then just removed me as a friend and went AWOL since, despite my attempts at apologizing. But who was in the wrong here?
It also happens to be the way I'm paying my way through university, funny that, and I ain't autistic, bub.Sung-Hwan said:but it's the fact that these jobs are only given to the failures of human society.
it's the most offencive thing i've saw you writting. Every job have it meaning, a job is a job. Saying that low paid jobs are for the failure of humanity show that you have little in common with most of the humanity. but we already know that...Sung-Hwan said:but it's the fact that these jobs are only given to the failures of human society.